mjsbenz

I hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction. I feel your pain!!!

Unfortunately, your selling dealer (not the one who is now helping you) is usually in the position to push the Regional big wigs to goodwill a new car. It is all about goodwill and nothing to do with legal issues. Dealers can move mountains. But your selling dealer did nothing for you. I would work that angle with high intensity. They have the most to risk in the local market.

As noted by others, if this becomes a 30 day out of service situation, you do have lemon laws to support your claim. But there also needs to be repeated attempts to fix it and it seems that may not be your case.

Now some calming words. This is NOT the end of the world. It is not an illness or death of a friend, family member or other loved ones. The car will be fixed and you will have a great car going forward. And you should received some consideration such as a few months of lease payments (or an equivalent amount if not leased). And payment of your legal fees.

What does the Service Director at Englewood suggest?

Your selling dealership is part of a privately owned auto group and you need to get the the owner and meet face to face. And mention their name here. BTW - the service director at your selling dealer is one of the best in the industry. I am really surprised that he did not help you. After all, they have the most to lose.

ImInPA

+1 It is after all only a car. It is so very unlikely you will ever have another problem with this engine once it is repaired. I feel your pain. I truly do. As I said above, fight for what you want, but, take what you can get. If, after the repairs, it is not to your satisfaction, trade the car on something else. Why make yourself crazy?

steelgrey

The wrist pins hold the piston to the connecting rod. If they came lose or for some reason were defective it would cause noise but would not necessarily damage the cylinder walls. Since they only said they are replacing the pistons. Which I'm sure would be the piston and connecting rod assembly. Logically, I can see why they would refuse to replace the entire motor. If this was occuring in a number of engines they would issue a Technical Service Bulletin which doesn't seem to be the case. Unfortunately, MB really has you between a rock and a hard place. They are willing to fulfill the warranty and replaced the damaged parts and repair the vechicle. I looked up the NJ Lemon Law and it requires that the dealer be given 2 chances to repair the vehicle before enactment.

I wish you the best of luck and hope this can be resolved to your satisfaction. I am attaching a copy of a TSB that was issued for the 2011 engines which required replacement of the engine. One more thing. I hope that you are making the payments while the car is sitting at the dealer. I read of a case where an owner wasn't pleased with a vehicle and took it back to the dealer and left it. He stopped making payments and ended up with the loan being turned over for collection.

Here's the TSB.

Spinny201

Steelgrey thank you for going the extra mile.

However the NJ Lemon law indicates that if the car sits there for 20 consecutive days out of service it is considered a lemon. This is straight from the lawyers at the lemon law office.

I also do not have faith in the service department that they are experienced enough to do such a repair. Service departments are pretty much glorified parts changers. They hook the car up to the computer, it tells them what part to change, they change it ( for the most part ). I doubt whoever will be replacing the pistons/rods whatever will have had much experience doing so, afterall - how often does this happen?

Spinny201

I have to slightly disagree with you. Yes it is only a car but there are many reasons to make myself a little crazy.
I do not believe they have the experience in repairing the internals with these motors. They are not engine builders like in Germany, they are parts changers in the US.

If the car is not repaired to my satisfaction, we again will have to be put out of time and into a loaner, make phone calls, complain, etc. This is becoming almost a full time job and it is exhausting. If we trade it in, we will take a hit. No dealer in the world is going to offer the same price for a car that has had a rebuilt engine, warranty or not. Is it fair that we are taking a financial hit on a brand new 2012 Mercedes? I think not.

At the end of the day, any way you look at it this is just totally unfair. We basically lost a ton of money buying a Mercedes. Engine replacement yes, engine repair, no way! Not on a 2012 with 1000 miles.

Now add that on top of the following..
Horrible sales man/experience... Prestige Mercedes in Paramus NJ is hands down the WORST car dealership I've ever dealt with in 15 years.

MBUSA has a "we don't care" attitude. The case worker is flat out rude and told us "Oh well, this is all we are doing".

Losing money on a brand new car because of a rebuilt engine at 1000 miles - is that fair either?


This ENTIRE transaction was botched from the sale all the way up to the way they decided to repair the car.
The ONLY good thing about this horrible experience is our SA at Benzel Busch is a great guy and going to bat for us. We basically dumped this problem into their lap and they welcomed us with open arms. Because of that, my future purchase will be with Benzel Busch but I can assure you it will NEVER be a mercedes.

BenzMan369

FWIW, urge you to go here and post your experience with both dealers. They are both represented on the site.
http://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/Pr...w-11063/page2/
There is a minor no-charge process to register on the site, to insure you are legitimate. If you wish, you can name names there. You'll see that the dealership's personnel are prominently displayed, pictures and all.

pierrejoliat

Getting a new engine is better than buying a new car with the potential need for an engine replacement MHO

steelgrey

Sorry Spinny, I missed that. So what are you going to do?

ImInPA

You missed my point but that is ok. I was only suggesting that making yourself crazy is up to you (as you stated). I was simply recommending that you get it fixed and trade it immediately. No more worries.

ghstudio

The TSB addressed scored piston walls...and that's the big question in my mind....if the walls are damaged (if they bore out the pistons as part of the repair, that is damaged in most anyone's book......or if the crankshaft is damaged in any way, then they need to replace the engine..or also replace the crankshaft.

I suggest you not permit them to bore out the cylinder walls as part of the fix.....because in the future, if there is more damage, they can't bore them out again. One of the tells on this is the part number of the new pistons they install....you can check the piston diameter against the original part numbers. Also check out the piston ring part numbers against the original size rings.

A bored out engine is not the same as a new engine, even though it will run the same...until someone tries to rebuild the engine in the future and finds that they can't bore it out any more.

pierrejoliat

You guys are amazing! Mercedes mechanics are well trained and sophisticated. At least at my dealer, and they have always fought for me. I am an executive and I don't begin to think my mechanic could do my job BUT nor I his... Boring and honing a cylinder only makes the cylinder larger by ten thousandths of an inch of course that requires a larger piston, I doubt any of you will still have your car long enough to worry, and likely it could be bored out ninety or more thousandths with no issues, hell when I was a kid I bored out VW engines 150 thousandths. Yes air cooled.. If any of you can find a car that rides and looks and handles like a Mercedes buy it!!! And everyone knows that no one in Jersey gives a crap about anyone else, my son regularly has issues with his Benz dealer trying to sell him parts he doesn't need. So he gets his services when he comes home. Find a mechanic you trust and stick with him, Or just go buy a Lexus nothing will break and you will have the boring car you wanted....

steelgrey

The authorized fix for the TSB was engine replacement. I do not believe that a Mercedes Benz Dealer would ever bore a block. I would doubt that they even have the equipment necessary. It would be more cost effective and less time consuming for them to replace the block.

petee1997

This is unacceptable. The engine should be replaced. However, wanting the car replaced was also ridiculous.
I am surprised MB are fighting you on this. This is very bad PR.

Wig

It's a bit harsh to describe wanting the car replaced as 'ridiculous'. I'd have lost faith with that car, and also felt like the whole new car experienced was ruined.

v8deuce

This is a great thread as it shows lots of different angles to the problem but one that I don't see is something that happened to me,I bought a problem car that both the original buyer and the mb dealer, that it was traded into, got rid of by sending it to the auction.Then a bottom feeder used car dealer bought it and sold it to me. https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-new-post.html https://mbworld.org/forums/5197637-post280.html

This car had not been into mb for a service after the 20,000 km interval as it was done at a private shop with the proper mb oil and still mb turned me down for any kind of goodwill as far as my problem went. But to conferm that the problem was a worn gear on the balance shaft (a very big problem with the 3.0 liter) I had to bring it in and pay for one hour labour for trouble shooting.Because the car was't serviced at mb and a million other excuses they said no to the engine problem BUT they would like to change the transfer case because it was a warranty thing that would not cost me a dime??? a 3000 dollar replacement unit and nothing wrong with the old one??? anyway my question is if there was a tsb to be done on your new car (replace/repair engine) and you went in for something unrelated do you have to be advised or is this something mb does all the time and no one is the wizer??? maybe there are a lot of mb's running around with repaired engines in low milage cars???? just my two cents worth.I'm behind you 100% stick to your guns you are on the right trail.

Randy

ttoE550

I've done a little poking around, and apparently having an engine "rebuilt" isn't that big of a deal both reliability- and value-wise as long as it is done by a reputable shop. In fact, I am not sure that having a couple of pistons replaced even qualifies as "rebuilt," but whatever.

It's not really bad PR. The vast majority of MB owners will never look at this board. The vast majority of those that do will see this as an isolated incident and will not change their purchase decision. I am not any more scared that my engine will fail.

And I really mean no offense again but it's not really a surprise that MB won't change the engine. The OP charged in fully emotional from the beginning. The OP strongly objected to an engine change because the numbers wouldn't match. Fine, they send in a pro and he found something minor that could be fixed. Now the OP wants the engine changed. MB now knows his earlier objections were more emotional than based on fact. What's MB's incentive? They lost the OP as a customer from the moment the OP's emotions took over. And they haven't spent a dime on legal fees - but they've gotten the OP to do so!

I had a Boxster that had so many problems that Porsche bought it back and sold me a 911 at a 17% discount to MSRP, at a time when Porsches were flying out the door. It took many phone calls and much negotiation. I talked respectfully to every person, and there were no lawyers involved.

MCF

If the purchase experience was so bad at the dealer then why did u purchase the car? I don't care what kind of deal I'm getting, if they treat me bad I'm gone.

Arrie

ttoE550,

I don't know where you "poked around" but you sound like you are working for the MBUSA.

If I spend $60000 for a car and the engine goes out in 1000 miles to a point that "just a couple of pistons needs replaced" and my dealer / MBUSA says they will just rebuild the engine I would ask them to give that statement in writing and take this to my lawyer and let them handle it. I would not make one more phone call.

Against someone spilling her coffee on her own lap in her own car in a fast food window and getting awarded hundreds of thousands of dollars for it (later lowered to something like only $50 000) this case should bring "millions".

It woukld cost MB in Germany less to send a new engine from the factory to have replaced rather than have someone re-build the one in the car. Changing pistons required pretty much full rebuid job on the motor and I can guarantee you that MB shops are not educated for this. Yes, there might be one or two but for damaged cylinders no way. For sending the block to an engine shop for bore means the whole engine has to come off of the car. This is more work than just swapping it out.

It is absolutely ridiculous that MB does not send a new factory engine with a letter of apology.

Asking for a new car is a bit too far as components (like engine) can have faulty parts (robots build them) and sometimes they just fail but for heavens sake if you let a bad product out of your manufacturing plant take it back and keep your customer happy.

If the OP takes this to the court I don't think MB has much chance surviving. They are stupid if they let it go that far. It is an individual against a monster huge FOREIGN CORPORATE and that is what the jury sees...

steelgrey

Spinny...I for one would like to hear how things are going with your car. I know that you've received unfair criticism from some forum members. I'm quite sure that if the exact same thing happened to those critics they would respond similary. Any info on a resolution?

VJORDAN

I had a 911 carrera with 3000 miles on it ..started leaking oil...they had to do engine work on this new car for approximately 3 weeks to fix it.....my best friend's 911 with 8000 miles had a small hole in one of the cylinders...3+ weeks and a new engine later...my new 300TD at 55000 miles dropped a tranny...well we know who had to pay for this...stuff does happen..unfortunately

bigben320e

+1 I have walked out of a lot of dealers, any sign of nonsense I don't even deal with it anymore. Time to go.

Exactly, it's funny how people always have opposing POV's on situations until it effects them or their family, etc. then all of a sudden it's a huge deal. I think most of us agree, an engine replacement was the best option. As some have pointed out here, not all techs at dealers are equipped with the experience.

The amount of money to replace an engine as opposed to bad PR...cheaper to replace the engine. The earlier comment is rather funny, "a limited amount of owners", word of mouth and this thread is far more reaching than you think. There is a huge difference with doing things right as opposed to doing the right thing.

Spinny201

Car is still in the dealership. No clue as to what's going on.

According to NJ state law, the car is a lemon. Any new car that sits in the dealership for 20 consecutive days for one single repair or multiple repairs is a lemon.

We are just waiting to hear what is going on.

Snakedr

Not a Lemon Yet, "The certified letter may be sent only after you have had at least two repair attempts for the same defect, or 20 cumulative days out of service for one or more defects, and the defect still exists." In other words if they take 30 days to fix your car and the condition no longer exists it's not a Lemon.

hofb99

Just for clarification, you are stating NJ law, right? Only asking because I see you are in Cali.

Snakedr

[QUOTE=hofb99;5229954]Just for clarification, you are stating NJ law, right? Only asking because I see you are in Cali.[/QUO

From NJ Office of Consumer affairs, just a google search away. They also get one final chance to fix it, so at least two attempts.