K-A

Your issue is you try and pick apart the personality behind the post too much. My review was very simple: W212 fan, reviews a Lexus. Likes the W212 a lot more aesthetically, happy about that, enjoys the drive of the GS, in fact calls it more "dynamically driving" (and I'm a "fanboy"?), though feels it doesn't supply some of the "Benz-ish elements" that the E does, to each their own. My style of writing is just that: Mine. It's maybe hard to decipher, and I like to practice different ways to express myself via text, so I'm sure it's entertaining.

The Lexus interface WAS very difficult. HOW does that make me an M-B fanboy? Are you really saying that? M-B's COMAND is very straightforward in comparison. Also, please, I can call a Lexus lame all I want. Hype said it, BTW, and I gave my +1. I think they're boring, unattractive, and soulless, not to mention I'm not impressed with the build quality. It seems *you* can't take some good fashioned car banter if you think it's an "attack" on Lexus drivers (my Mom is one! You just can't win can ya).

Yes, M-B is a prestigious brand to me, and there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make me a braggart, but it's a connection I've had to the brand and designs that makes me feel good about it, it's like someone who likes a sports team for no real reason than emotions. I would buy a used S-Class if "ultimate cachet" is what I was about, or a used Maserati which would cost me less than my E350 in the long run. I like the cachet of the M-B brand, I'm proud of it, not for ME as someone who pays a monthly fee to drive it, but to the brand itself. I'm as an *ENTHUSIAST*, protective of it.

You can dislike my review all you want, but COUNTER it for christ sake. You have a fixation about trying to decipher my personality, and I promise you, won't won't be able to. My comparo was NEVER INTENDED to be from the standpoint of an automotive journalist with no dog in the race. And please get one thing straight, I NEVER have a fit or hit somebody on a personal tip when they dislike "my car", I ALWAYS will counter with virtues about the car, in an attempt to engage in a good discussion/debate. You focus SOLELY on the personality behind it and you always take it into the realm of "personal", which is something I never do.

Finally, what "peeved" me about your plan of attack, is the word "fanboy". It bothers me, because it's not true. It implies that my intelligence or lack thereof and self awareness or lack thereof has no idea of what a fanboy is, and whether or not I can figure myself out as one. I trash M-B WAY too much these days to be a brand fanboy.

The word "fanboy" is like the word "hater". It's an empty, unintelligent way to discount somebody's statements. People use it as a knee-jerk reaction when they don't like what they're hearing or can't argue it.

I appreciate the apology, and it's no sweat off my back. But understand that part of why I come here is to engage in some honest banter, and I'm always up for a good verbal spar (it's good practice for real life).

Finally, thanks for the "advice", and this isn't meant to be offensive, but I just don't take you for someone who's advice I'd take to heart enough to change my "Message Board Style" or my take on "Car Enthusiasm".

K-A

Oh, and OF COURSE I know what a 220S is! Jeez fella! That shows how off you are about me as a car enthusiast. M-B's history is what draws me to the brand.

Want to hear me wax poetic about the W212 and what made it turn me 180 degrees from a hater into a lover? Here goes:

I feel the car is a very purposeful modern homage, tribute, ("caricature of what a Benz Sedan is supposed to look like") of their 3-Box Sedans. Naturally with some superfluous details mixed in to cave into automotive trends currently, which I don't think spoil it but instead ad some dynamic touches (for the most part, but even as a fan the critic in me can pick apart the design, as it's a favorite pastime of mine as well) .

The 220S Ponton is one of the leading cars that gave inspiration to the W212, obviously noticeable in the fender "Ponton" bump. The W126 which is one of my favorite M-B's, and a car that I grew up in practically as my parents had one all throughout my childhood, is to me another large part of what conceived the W212.... i.e I feel it was M-B's effort to capture the spirit of that car and work it into their modern/current design idioms. However, deeper than design, you can feel it in the build of the car, the "language", very staunchly in the rigid interior, etc.

How'd I do?

W210

I find the 5 too tight in the back, and am not too crazy about the front ash tray area with little room for storage. I really wanted to like the 550i xDrive as I love the fun feature where one can open the truck with ones foot like the new SL. At the end of the day however, I just find the overall package lacking. Too toy like, ride not as smooth. And having lived with BMW's auto hold, I have to say I much prefer the MB brake-hold better.

One thing you didn't comment on the Lexus is the leather smell, am I the only one preferring the German toxic bouquet?

The new A6 is praised by many, but I find Audis quite pricy with little incentives.

hyperion667

this has become quite a bore...................yawn....................... .

K-A

I agree about the front ashtray. In fact, I find the 5ers interior a little cluttered and busy, not as focused as the E's. The E is simple teutonic simplicity that harks back to an older era of M-B's. However, I think objectively, the 5's interior would probably "dazzle" the masses a bit more. Material quality seems to be similar between the two. I always said that the 5's interior seems a bit more expensive while the E's exterior looks more expensive. However, subjectively, I do prefer the E's inside perhaps as it has those M-B like qualities I'm personally fond of.

The A6 is indeed much more pricey than both the E and 5 to lease. I actually am making it a point to drive the A6 soon. I've driven an A7 which is basically the same thing and I have only great things to say about the drive.

The problem with the A6 is the exterior that looks so bland and uninspired, like it could be a car out of the 90's, mated to this desperately futuristic grille. At the same time, it's elegant and pure, while the E is more bold and polarizing by design.

I actually did comment on the leather smell but I have a problem being concise so you mighta missed it in that cluster of text! I really do prefer the feel of MB Tex to a lot of leathers, and Lexus leather I've experienced goes "bad" quick, it ages, looks old, and get smelly. However, being a brand new GS, and being that my only negative opinion toward MB Tex is the "non leathery smell", the GS's interior smell was a little more "luxurious" than my E's interior smell, I guess you could say. However, leather to leather, no contest.... Lexus leather smells bad quick, while German leather always impresses my nasal packages when new at least.

rjm

You are really showing your immaturity and desperation with these comments. Another vain attempt to elevate MB-Tex to something superior to what it is, a cheap, chemically produced synthetic product to imitate the appearance and quality of genuine leather. I have owned 3 Lexus automobiles, all with Lexus genuine Leather, and none of them have "gone bad," "looked old," or has "gotten smelly." A little mild soap and warm water does miracles to keep it looking and feeling new. Do you seriously believe, that if cost was not a factor, that MB would not be using a quality genuine leather upholstery as they did in the distant past? My 2001 E-430 had genuine leather and it was truly luxurious. But I'm happy for you that "German leather impresses your nasal packages [i.e. nasal passages]."

2005 Article from Reuters:

"BERLIN (Reuters) - Mercedes-Benz has agreed to offer "leather-free" versions of all its luxury cars to pacify an animal rights group that says thousands of cows are slaughtered each year for leather car seats and interiors.

After complaints from the German chapter of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, DaimlerChrysler said its Mercedes subsidiary will offer fabric or synthetic leather as options.

Daimler spokeswoman Ursula Mertzig-Stein said that far from wanting leather-free cars, "our customers ... are more likely to want even more leather at the premium end. But we'll make cars without leather on demand."

PETA officials, who had threatened protests at the carmaker's Stuttgart headquarters, said they were delighted.

"When you consider that the skins of four to 15 cows are needed for each car this means thousands of cows will be spared," said PETA researcher Edmund Haferbeck. "This is a huge victory for animal rights."

K-A

You don't know what you're talking about, and your constant personal attacks whenever somebody badmouths a Lexus shows that you aren't thinking "objectively" here in the least, and can't take altering opinions from your own. M-B has been using M-B Tex for over half a century in its cars. Your E430 was a *V8 VERSION* which always comes with leather. M-B's have always used M-B tex, it's actually more a part of their heritage than about anything.

Not that the likes of yourself warrants a mature reply, but....

My experiences with a few Lexus' in the family have shows that the leather's, at least when not maintained, look old fast, and get smelly. M-B Tex looks perfect for a lifetime practically, with no maintenance other than wiping down.

You either haven't experienced MB-Tex's virtues or you simply have a bias towards leather (nothing wrong with that, it's preference), but for you to think that nobody could like MB-Tex in their right minds, shows that you are extremely narrow minded and can't accept views differing from your own.

M-B Tex's qualities over leather are vast, and most people could never tell a difference anyway (that's how good it is).

I don't think I've ever seen you write something of value here, why don't you start now and tell us what you think of the new GS (hyperbole intact, I'm sure)?

dfordham

Arguing with KA is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig...after a while, you realize that the pig enjoys it!

Regards,
Don

hyperion667

haha!

victort

i think the E class is ugly, you think the GS is ugly.... guess we have to agree to disagree. Does it make either of us right? no... you're entitled to your own opinions but doesn't mean you should be bashing the Lexus. I'm sure some of the people on the GS forums are bashing on the E class and does it make them right too? no. BOTH cars have advantages and disadvantages. I think people are just criticizing you because you're putting the E on a pedestal and making it out to be the perfect car, and bashing on the other cars to make yourself feel better about your purchase. both are great cars and being SO narrow minded and not recognizing the advantages of the Lexus just makes you look immature and childish

K-A

LOL. I can't bash a Lexus? You babies are crying over subjective criticism to a car you prefer and I'm the narrow minded one? You can bash the E all you want, it's totally fine, cool, and valid, but my opinions of my choice can be articulated in a way where unlike a few of you, I can come back at you with an articulated and genuine debate as to why I disagree, instead of lashing out at you like you slapped my mother (ahem: 220S, rjm, new random Victor guy).

You know what a discussion is, right? You know that you can have a civil one even by being strongly opinionated? You, rjm, and 220S being the "criticizers" thus far have shown that you have insecurity issues which force you to personally "lash out" in meek ways, I must add, at those who's opinions are perhaps too strong for your differing views to handle.

Anways, those adults here who are acting like little female children: I criticized the GS's ugly looks, not its drive or totally quality. I wasn't even the one who initially called it "lame", nowhere in my review. Not that I disagree with that "statement".

Indeed, and the pig always wins.

dfordham

I'll remember that when I have my eggs and bacon tomorrow.

Regards,
Don

K-A

Give the pig a chance... those cholesterol levels it fuses into its devourers may someday give it the last laugh.

kingofire

K-A, I recently(Sunday) test drove a white GS350 F-sport and I have to totally have to agree with you. The GS seems like childs play when compared to the E350(my car). The sheet metal on the GS350 seemed to be paper thin and the doors didn't seem to close with a solid thud as it did with the E350. Interiorly, the leather on the GS350 didn't seem to be as durable as the E350 as well. My E350 has "real" leather and after 20,000 miles it doesn't have the creases on the edge as the GS350 did and the GS350 was brand new!!! I truly went into the test drive of the GS350 to REPLACE the E350 but in every facet the E350 beat the GS350 except the fact that the GS350 out drove the E350(I was shocked that I prefered a Lexus over Mercedes when it came to performance).

I know there are a lot of people in this thread calling you a "fanboy" but having driven both and compared side by side I have come to the same conclusion as you.

Good job mate! I am one to drink your kool-aid!

K-A

Thank you for the breath of fresh air, sir! Finally one who has driven both, reviewed both, and can contribute intelligently here, rather than throwing poo because they're challenged! Those "fanboy" slingers are seemingly few but naturally bratty loud.

It's funny, about the "paper thin" part, right? I didn't know how to explain it, but the E350 just feels so "thick" and substantial in comparison, visually as well, the metal, etc.

That's quite a feat for the E to convince you to stay put considering you actually went to TRADE IN for the Lex!

I'm glad to hear you say that the Lex outdrove the E because I know I'm not crazy. The ride didn't feel as planted or solid to the road, nor as "substantial" as the E, and there was some lightness and float when cornering that wasn't too confidence inspiring, but all in all, the ride did more things well at the same time than the E350's ride does. It's an enjoyable car to drive, no doubt, and felt easier to drive than the E. A big gripe is the 6-Speed tranny. Doesn't allow the motor to shine and makes the drivetrain feel slightly unrefined in comparison to the E's 7G equipped snapper/tighter shifting feel.

jmatero

Geez... I just came in on this one and folks need to calm down... You're scaring me off and I haven't bought a car yet! Sounds like the Mustang/Camaro forums! LOL

To each his own. Nobody can deny Lexus customer service and quality have been top-notch since they came on the scene. And nobody can deny that Mercedes has been building automobiles for over 100 years, INVENTED the modern automobile, and nails safety, a luxury ride, and solidity.

I've never been a fan of the ride and handling of Lexus vehicles, but definitely understand why so many are. Just like I understand why some would choose a 335i over a C350. I for one was SHOCKED at the difference in handling of the new GS350 over any other Lexus built to date. They clearly learned a lot from the Germans and it's nice to see them offer a car like this. The turn-off for me is the styling. I like it from the B-Pillar forward. I hate it B-Pillar rearward. And if I don't like walking up to it, I won't buy it.

Also, I prefer leather myself BUT MBtex is VERY different than the non-leather used in other brands today. The difference (and what makes MTtex a viable option for me over leather) is that it breathes. Get behind the wheel of any BMW, Lexus, Audi, or VW with their non-leather and your back will sweat within minutes. What's astonishing about the MBtex is that it not only looks like leather, it breathes. Also, I just read last week (I'll find the link) that MB dealers say the MBtex interiors play a big part in the huge used benz market because the seats look like brand new after years of use.

Just my 2-cents.

Gsc

Co-sign this brother!!!

K-A

Don't let the frantics scare you off. Some people can't wrap their heads around expressed subjectivity or objectivity if it doesn't align with their preconceived notions. Most of the cool cats leave the arguments alone. I for one enjoy them, they make me sharper.

MB-Tex is great. I like it so much that when I was initially considering looking into the CLS, I was upset that you couldn't get it with MB Tex (not saying I would, but the it's worth considering to me). Someone who likes to be as lazy as I possibly can be whilst still getting the exact results I desire, appreciates the merits of the Tex.

Also, considering the open market doesn't know it's not real leather (and it's so good they couldn't tell anyway), resale of MB-Tex cars, or I should say "desirability factor" after the years and miles pile on, will always be higher.... simply because it'll look good as new, while aged leather usually looks aged and worn, especially considering most people don't maintain it right.

paulkchoi

There are 4 2013 GS350's here at my work site. Along with a bunch of other cars. TTC. They look nice and aggressive but I wouldn't put it on a pedestal and display it in the museum of art. The 2012 E350 is a work of art and whenever I see one or look at mine I think to myself what a nice looking car.

Decboy

We all have our own unique opinions on makes/models. Reading this thread makes me feel great at the fact that we all have choices to select from. Life is too short, spend your money on what makes you happy.

Quadcammer

No joke, pathetic.

give me a ****ing break. a w212..soul????

Maybe its the person who sits in the seat that makes it smelly

K-A

Let's break this down: I write an enthusiastic post, non offensive to anyone who doesn't have their heart tied into an inanimate object (Lexus in this case) or against one (E-Class in this case), or just can't to allow their muted existence watch as someone (gasp!) enjoys an object of theirs and can articulate it.... and those who can't get around their own bitterness, call it "pathetic".

However, someone like Mr. OliverK, who 99% of Forum posts are negative, Policing of others, is.... commendable? You don't like to see others happy with their cars, OliverK, I get it, so you make your Forum existence.... exist, to just troll them. If I kept my W220 and dealt with all the shock failures I'd be bitter too.

Can you break down what signifies soul? And please don't say that the W212 is too mass-market to have a design that conveys "soul", because that has nothing to do with the design. If you humor me enough, I can show off my expressive-ballerina skills again and explain to you EXACTLY how I come to the conclusion of the design of the E having what I deem as "soul". I'd also honestly mail you a $10 bill Oliver, if you went 10 straight posts without being a condescending squirrel.

Oh, btw, do *you* have any contribution to the two cars at hand, or is that another armchair post.

Wig

Don't waste your time on Oliverk, K-A. His posts are always unpleasant and negative.

K-A

Thanks for the good advice, and I agree. His life must be lacking something fierce. Hey, I'm not the positivity-prophet, but I make an effort.

Bitterness scoffs at exuberance.

leapingpoint

To me, Lexus is just like Credor.