BM2BZ

isn't your cls about the same size ?

hyperion667

not really, I had my car parked near the thing.....and even though I didn't
get any pix///the thing is massive

BM2BZ

i was comparing both on their sites and yours is a bit taller but just about 3" shorter. not a huge different. maybe you are so used to your pcar now .

K-A

The Gran Coupe is on the F10 wheelbase/architecture which has a much longer wheelbase than the E/CLS, it's also inherently wider and lower/sleeker (IMO best proportions on the market).

I'm not the hugest "4 Door Coupe" fan as I feel lots of times they can look awkward (and certain ones lots times can look very sexy as well), but to me the 6 Gran Coupe is the nicest 4 Door (I like to call them "Sedans" ) out there.

Somehow BMW managed to become more massive then their M-B competitors, in weight and size. You'd think it'd be reversed.

BMW was the first to embark on the cost-saving measure of extensive platform sharing from within the same brand, thus you basically have 2 core chassis': The "Large Car" and the "Small Car".

The Large Car chassis is all derivative of the F01 7-Series chassis, which the F10 uses a modified version of, which is shared by the 6-Series GC. Therefore, the 5/6 are so massive and heavy, though have incredible torsional rigidity figures and are practically over-engineered in luxury and quietness, because they're basically smaller versions of the 7-Series (the F10 even has a carbon copy interior of the 7-Series, though more modernized and even nicer IMO). The big catch though is the fact that BMW needed to engineer the F01 chassis to be capable "under" the Rolls Royce Ghost, which is again why the F10 5/6 GC has such massive proportions (and another reason as to why they benefit from such a solid chassis and coddling luxurious drive).

Some guys who want that previous BMW connected feel, more raw experience, and lighter/nimbler cars hate it, but at the same time many, like myself, find that it especially gives those of us getting in the "Midsize Line" of said chassis a great bargain in terms of Luxury because we get a car on a chassis/platform essentially over-engineered to adorn not only the 7, but the basics of the RR Ghost.

I've heard that for the next generation, BMW is going to only make ONE chassis which will house basically everything they make, and it'll have to be all at once light enough to befit the 3 Series, and sturdy/luxurious intended enough to handle MULTI cars from the RR Ghost line. Sounds impossible and very $$$$ to develop.... I wonder how it'll turn out (hopefully not a giant compromise to every product).

ImInPA

I think that MB embarked on the platform sharing prior to BMW. The C platform is used in the E, CLS, and GLK. In any event, all manufacturers are doing it. MB has developed a great platform, in that it can accommodate the light and sporty C, the stiff and strong GLK, the Plush E in sedan and coupe form, and the CLS. Each vehicle feels distinctly different too. That is true versatility.

K-A

BMW were definitely on it before M-B (as were BMW ahead of M-B on many business moves in which M-B eventually followed, one of the reasons why Daimler stock has been heavily underperforming BMW AG stock and VAG stock, with analysis stating that in recent years BMW car business may now be worth double of M-B's car business, good read here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...tors-cars.html). BMW were kind of the firsts (at least within the upper end German automotive rankings) to prove just how much $$$$ would be saved by essentially cost cutting every car from getting their own dedicatedly developed chassis'.

IMO BMW has been taking platform sharing too far and it's kind of alienating some from certain models, but then drawing many closer to them (read my comments on the F10 chassis being inherently engineered to be capable under a RR Ghost in an extended and modified form, which is a hate it or love it by the BMW community it seems). However, its boosted their profit margins far ahead of M-B's.

M-B stated that they first "experimented" with the E-Class using a modified version of the W204 chassis, and afterwards Executives were happy enough to give it a green light for future models, which WILL be doing extensive BMW-esque type platform sharing.

IMO the C-Class chassis being under the E is why I always felt the E's suspension was its biggest weak point and so imbalanced. I.e floaty on smooth roads and excessive body roll on turns (which is fine and appropriate as it's an M-B Sedan after all), but then jarring and harsh over rough roads. IMO the suspension is better balanced and feel more tight under the C, while IMO it'd have been great if the E got a variation of the S's chassis instead.

BenzV12

Sorry, I don't wanna disappointed you but .Not the ugliest car though .I like it from an angled side profile though . I believe that's the only thing I like on 6 GC lol
K-A , your inputs are informative as usual , I presumed VW were 1st to use sharing same platform on different models

K-A

Thanks and no prob.

You're right, VW has been sharing platforms along their plethora of manufacturer posts, as have GM and Ford, etc., but I think BMW was the first one to really exploit it from within one specific Luxury brand (i.e maybe the first to use multiple platforms for several of their own models?). If not, I know they did long before Mercedes started experimenting with it, as you can see with how many models have already been sharing platforms inside BMW VS the very minimal models doing so within M-B (which by the next generation M-B will have followed suit and will have a few select platforms working for all their cars).

BMW's margins went up dramatically when they started doing this, which is one reason why they're making so much $$$$, and M-B being in a less fortunate financial/income position comparatively these days had to obviously take heavy notice.

Point being, I don't think M-B considered it until it was BMW who started really benefitting from it (i.e M-B weren't looking to VAG or GM or Ford for ideas or "inspiration" per-se).

FastE

The BMW is a great car, but as everyone says they are ugly.

Worse, I have a personal hate for the dashboard in the BMW. I reminds me of my fathers Lincoln Town car, with a big solid line across the dash.

A modern car should create a cockpit for the driver (and passenger) and wrap around you. The BMW is horrible inside in that respect (IMHO). My MDX was more sporty inside. An SUV!

SoCalCLK

Agreed. Choosing between either an E550 or BMW 550i, you can't really go wrong. It's like splitting hairs. In the end, which one is easier/more interesting to live with? For me, it was and still is the E550. My buddy got a 2010 550i, and the ride and comfort are not the same.

Also, the dealer treats him like *****. I've been going to my dealer for over 10 years and they are always respectful and courteous, and least of all pushy or annoying.

champaign777

this
i had 2010 550i M SPort for 6 month and 2 month i didnt drive it as it had all kind of "normal" bmw issues , -
steering leaks , software bugs , suspension noises , engine noises , remote key issues, transmission jerks etc, etc
no more "new" BMW for me , end story , i better drive more reliable car even it feels less sporty

FastE

Your local dealer can have a major impact on your buying choices. I was actually nervous as I had heard bad things about Benz in my town - yet the service advisor I work with at my dealer has been great. A very positive experience in fact.

Dema

My experience with BMW was rather positive. I drove 1 of year 1. Everyone knows a rule do not buy first year production, but somehow I repeatedly was buying first year productions. I had zero problems with my one. Actually dealer insisted on few recalls including replacement of high pressure fuel pump, but somehow I never had issue with it. However 1 was really cheap inside and a little noisy since convertible. So I always wanted 5 since it is more comfortable and spacious car, but still lacking in a good interior design/ Regarding driving experience 1 was better anyway.

marvinlee

[QUOTE=people drove cars for almost 300 years"

I assume this was in the former Soviet Union, which claimed to have invented all good things, and was believed to last forever?

marvinlee

I rather like having a car that is not seen as costly as it is. It reduces the envy level, prevents snide comments about having too much money, and fosters an image of a regular guy that people can feel at ease talking to.

W210

I can't stand the clunky front upholders and the obstructive A and C pillars, somehow I find it difficult to get in and out of.

K-A

Have you sat in a new 5 Series? The interior is beyond cockpit-like, it completely cocoons you, on the 5 Series the dash is slanted towards the driver, putting everything at your fingertips and angled in your direction.

The E Class on the other hand has literally the most "old fogey" (which BTW I like in a Benz, appropriate for the brand) and un-driver oriented interior on the market. It's all square, boxy and open-aired, it feels like you're sitting on a couch (not like a cockpit as in the 5 Series), the column shifter gives a feeling and look and vibe of a 70's Towncar, etc. The 5er feels very sporty and driver oriented inside, yet still very luxurious, while the E is the furthest thing from sporty and driver oriented feeling.

Each car has their pluses and minuses indeed, but there's no doubt which is the sportier of the two and which is the furthest thing from sportily intentioned. That's not even a put down to the E, it literally has 0 sporty intentions.

GregTR

Riiight... Zero sporty intention what-so-ever

K-A

What does that have to do with these two cars? Lol. AMG Benzes are WAY different from regular Benzes, especially these days. The E350 floats and feels like a boat, purposefully so, the E63, totally the opposite.

A regular BMW will drive closer to an M than a regular M-B to an AMG.

Plus, the M5 is a superior engineered car on a holistic level, the only reason one-dimensional magazines regard the E63 higher is because it's louder, cruder, less posh and less isolating than the M5, i.e things that a true owner would actually prefer from a vehicle they demand dynamic liveable attributes from. The F10 chassis is a full 30% stiffer than the W212 chassis which is why it's so fundamentally more quiet and isolated. Those should be good things, but mags like raw, loud and crude.

W210

Tried the M5, hated it. Lack of traction for the real world.

Had the CL63 with bi-turbo for a few weeks. Different car much larger, but having a similar problem with 560 hp+ and RWD. Fine only for showoff cruising but inefficient if one wants to make use of all the power passing cars.

And on the M5, did they really record the exhaust sound and feed it back into the cabinet through the speakers for a fake sense of sportiness? It really shows BMW has lost it. The current M5 seems to have lost its appeal compared to the previous generations, especially the E39.

Personally, I rather have a quieter more of a Q-ship to fly under the radar, the AMG setup is good except a little too obnoxious with the exhaust, similar to the M5 attracting unneeded attention.

In that sense I find cars like E550 and 550i more suitable for street use. I would argue that I can zip around town in an xDrive 550i more at ease than an M5 with only RWD.

Don't have a direct E550 vs. 550i comparison but find the comments on the 535i and E350 quite accurate below:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...-xdrive-page-2

The 535i I test drove a couple of years ago had a horrible throttle delay which was downright dangerous. Never had much luck with BMW transmissions, the E65 750Li had an annoying clunk when coasting to a stop.

GregTR

OMG, you're delusional beyond hope... Anything that is not feeding into your own pipe dream must be biased, one-dimensional and wrong. I think I'll just put you on ignore, you're a waste of characters and bandwidth... WTF does "superior engineered on a holistic level" even mean? Is that a quantitative term or a BS one that you came up with? You must be working in marketing...

K-A

Actually the M5 is probably the best car in the world, as a "jack of all trades". The fact that it's not as crude and pure-bred as a sports car makes it further so. You get one of the most solid, luxurious, serene cars which at the touch of a button (or throttle position) is one of the best performing Sedans in the world.

Magazines don't care about anything but how crude, connected and pure-bred a car is, in the sportiness way. The M5 is more comfortable, solid, quiet, luxurious, technologically advanced than the E63, yet mags give the E63 the nod because they "like" how much louder, more harsh, etc. it is. In the real world, to me that makes the M5 a much better overall car. Most mag tests give the M5 better performance figures as well, yet they subjectively like how the E63 feels more like a muscle-car and how much more feel of the road you get inside. That can also be taken in context as to how much less luxurious it is.

As for regular BMW's and Mercs, the 5 Series gets better/sportier scores in comparison tests about 98% of the time, to be modest. It's a no brainer, just drive a 2014 535i with M suspension and Sport Auto Trans and you won't find any Merc short of an AMG that feels as dynamic and sporty.

GregTR

Seriously dude, The main difference between a base E200 and an E63S is the engine and the shocks/springs. The geometry and stiffness of the car is not changed and the handling characteristics change little as well. If you look at the parts catalog you can see that 90% of the parts between the two cars overlap. They make and sell the E63S because that is where the money and profit is at. It's basically 90% of the same marginal cost and material as your E200 for an additional 100-130% markup. It's called price discrimination.

The F10 platform is also used for the 7 series and boats like a Rolls Royce. The F10 is nothing like the E39 even if they lead you to believe that. I can't wait for you to come back to the star badge and start trolling the BMW boards about how much sh$t their cars are...

If there is anything harsher, more raw, more crude and more dangerous for your average M5 poser driver than close to 600 HP going to a single axle I don't know what is...

SoCalCLK

K-A- don't take this the wrong way.

Furthest thing from "sport and driver oriented". You mean the Pontiac Aztek was closer to sportiness than the E550? I think your overuse of hyperbole undermines what you are trying to say.

Second, it would be great if we kept this discussion to folks that actually either owner or leased a BMW 550i or Mercedes E550 Sedan. It would be great to get honest feedback from real-world owners, rather than hear from guys who never owned either of these cars.

Lastly, I bought my wife the 535xi Wagon a few years ago. Essentially the same 3.5 twin-turbo engine that BMW has been using prior to them switching to single turbos. The E550 is sportier than the 535xi, felt tighter than the 535xi, took the turns better and was more comfortable than the 535xi. Real world feedback from a real owner.

My apologies in advance if anyone got their feelings hurt reading this.

GregTR

+1. He seems to exaggerate for effect but it's the wrong effect that he ends up with. He has zero credibility in my books on the subject of.....well pretty much anything....

+1. Sorry I butted into this riveting discussion with nothing to add.

If BMW would still bring the wagon over I would have absolutely looked at it and possible gotten one. I still think that the F10 wagon is the hottest looking full-size wagon ever produced.