If someone can't tell a W222 from a W205, time to visit the optometrist. I can't get into the "sources" thing. And if the F10 was so perfect, why did it need an update at all? Intentional obsolescence?

The "sausages of different lengths" ideal works for Audi, then BMW got into it, now MB is, too. Some are differentiated more than others. Let's see side profiles of F30/F10/F01 or A4/A6/A8. Something isn't bad just because MB does it.

W222 is the new luxobarge benchmark, too.

 

The new 5 series front end is ok but nothing that I would spend my hard earned dollars on. To that end I'm not very bothered about styling criteque from a BMW owner. To me that speaks volumes on the subject. BMW's may have many fine attributes but styling isn't one of them save the Z4/8 and 6er here or there.

 

It happened again...this time my F10 tried to eject me from my driver's door...LOL

Apparently his F10 can get jealous!

 

Lol, i could not get past the 2nd sentence

 

Message to K-A.

I thought you would be a truthful guy about your current ride if you come posting here in the 212 forum.

Why did you not post about this rather serious door lock problem you are having? It is unheard of, at least to me, for the car lock opening during operation of the car other than if someone manually does it.

For me you always were a poster to listen to. Now I just see posts how good the suspension and transmission of your BMW-car are. But how about the other issues?

Perhaps to get the BMW class suspension you have from MB you need to spend some more $? Like I think it is in Europe.

And I don't put much weight on the suspension as with our max speeds here in U.S. it does not matter.

 

Lol I come on this forum to get help and to help others. Not to constantly tell others that their cars are inferior to the 5 in every way. It seems like to you that if we cant appreciate the 5 then you question us? I think you get off at bashing the w212 and telling everyone that your 5 series is so much better. How about you accept and appreciate the fact that people dont like the 5 for their own reasons instead?

 

They are total copy/paste jobs, more-so than the 3 and 5 even. I think they look fine, though I'm not all that crazy about them (have seen some S Classes on the road and it doesn't really have the presence I thought it would, and it'll get worse once the C shows that exact same design at every streetcorner). BMW's look alike, indeed, but I think it's a beautiful design language so I don't mind it. To each their own. I guess one could see this two ways: Doing a "same sausage different lengths" thing can mean that those who love your designs will like all your cars, though at the same time, if I don't like the W222 design language, then M-B is pretty much forcing me out of the brand as I'll have to deal with all the cars looking like it (same goes for BMW to those of you who don't like the design language to begin with).

The F10 got as little an update as possible. The board room would never accept no facelift. The F10 took over massive market share from its competitors, the highest selling Luxury Sedan this segment has ever seen, designed to go the length of time, therefore BMW didn't mess with their "painting". M-B on the other hand, IMO looked shameless, goofy and flat out unprepared in how they treated the E Class. The reason it bothers me so much is because I LIKE the pre-facelift E Class, and the Mercedes brand deserves better than how their cars keep going back and forth.

Firstly, nobody asked about the door issue. And even with the door issue, I'd get another F10 in a second if I stay in this segment, which is why you hear me talk about its benefits so much more in a 5 Series thread. The suspension issue was the worst part of my W212 experience, and even with my door popping open on the freeway (not completely open, just fell into the secondary latch), my W212's jarring attributes on rough roads and floaty/jiggly/old-Caddy handling were much more prevalent to my experiences. The F10's (M suspension) smooth ride over rough roads and good handling through turns shows a knowledgable and high quality engineering aspect when it comes to suspension dynamics, which I feel are lacking on the W212. Swerving quickly in my E350's to avoid something on the highway felt straight up dangerous, the car would bounce around. In my 5er, it's tight and quick at those maneuvers. IMO that's an important safety measure in itself.

If you can't take the heat, stay out the kitchen! This is a thread about the 5 Series comparing to the E Class. If it bothers you to hear about the 5er's supremacies, then avoid the thread. Simple. I'm not telling anyone to go buy a 5 Series, lol. Sorry to have made anyone develop an inferiority complex, just because I tell you the 5 is better in a thread designated to a 5er, doesn't mean I'm trying to make you feel bad. We're adults, these are cars, get over it. Go uptalk the E in every other thread in this board that I'm not participating in.

 

Didn't know about the self opening door issue on the 5. Quite a safety issue.

 

These "5er's supremacies" seem to only exist in your mind. They most certainly do not exist in the minds of the editors @ Car & Driver ! May I suggest that you read and inwardly digest their comments made in the November 2013 edition, where they rated the 2013 BMW 535i last in a comparison with E350, Audi A6 and Cadillac.

C&D stated that E350 had superior ride, comfort, steering and handling compared to the 535i ! I have driven both cars and I would agree with their assessment.

Perhaps you have trouble accepting opinions from experts who disagree with you ?

 

Yes, indeed ! K-A should report this issue without further delay to the national safety authorities (www.nhtsa.gov ).

 

Nuf said...

 

That's not the only issue with the F10.

Read the following posts on the F1o Forum:

Consolidated list of all F10 problems.

Acceleration delay/Throttle lag/Initial lag issue

Fuel injectors replaced again.

So the F10 falls short of being the Ultimate Driving Machine!

 

Or maybe a BMW feature to keep getting you out of old ones prematurely, thus paying more, then into new ones.

Actually the supremacies are factual. And there's a reason the F10 is slaughtering the E Sedan in worldwide sales, forcing it into the most extensively goofy facelift in M-B's history. However, that doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to like it better, certainly your subjective or preferential (or badge preferential which we all know is prevalent in all these guys' case, especially historically Mercedes) measures. People here have always been of utmost sensitivity. lol

The F10 beats the W212 in 99.99% of the tests. Even when it "loses", it's noted that it's the most solid feeling, most luxurious in class. Editors are clearly pissed that BMW made the new car too quiet and isolated, which is in fact why it's so popular. Even in that C&D article the F10 performed the best of the bunch, statistically in most all measures, including lower sound decibels inside. The only reason it "lost" is because it used the crappy XDrive system which does not come with the M suspension (uses the floaty Base suspension) which not to mention weighed it down AND had crappy winter tires, yet it still was amongst fastest (or actually WAS the fastest, and a RWD with Sport Auto would be even faster) and put up amongst best figures. The only review that would call the W212 "smooth" is those who are.... well, reviewing it on a test course. Over rough pavement the thing is downright jarring, the chassis flexes causing the car to vibrate (which is where the F10's 30% more rigid chassis comes into effect, tank like in solidity and no rattles ever). Both my W212's became rattle traps due to its poor performance here. And again, if it handled tightly that'd be another story, but it's the sloppiest handler in class.

Again, a 2011/2012 F10 is a compromised product, unfortunately. Lots of early glitches (think W211 generation) that affected lots of impressions of the car. The 2013 models got a genuine M suspension (only on RWD M Sport models) a vastly improved iDrive (COMAND is like 80's Atari in comparison) and fixed all those glitches and quality issues listed in the thread above (all related to mostly early 2011 models). We even got new RFT's which are phenomenally better.

As for comparisons, there is none with the 535i and E350, sales wise, performance wise, even the F10 scores a much higher safety score (NCAP) and has a whopping 30% stiffer chassis. There's a reason it costs more and gets discounted less.

A NON-M Sport 535i just beat an E400 in a test.... not a 350, but a 400! Which is supposed to compete more-so with the 550i.

 

I probably should and will. I'm not the only one. There's something fishy about the F10's door latch. A few times I shut my door and the latch was still stuck "out" so it made a loud metal on metal clank before it closed.

Fortunately for others it appears my car is an outlier and it's far from normal, though there have been some other people who've reported the same issue meaning there must be enough of a design flaw where a higher percent than acceptable will notice this happening.

So rest assured guys, all those other things be damned, at least your E isn't trying to eject you from the car. You can enjoy your Benz in peace.

 

The Pre-2000 W210 wasn't stellar in the regard either. Look at the earlier W210 offset collisions tests

 

The pre-2000 W210 was a total disaster, the offset crash test was beyond scary. Whatever they did to fix it went a long way.

The W210 is one of the most polarizing E's of all time (I wager that due to the facelift and reasoning behind it, when the W213 comes out and especially after some time, the W212 generation will join it in that regard), but I drove a pretty beaten down 2001 E55 (facelift) with like 165K miles and it still felt like a tank. Very impressive. Love that car.

 

Fun article. The insanely awesome F10 beat a clunky old W212 by a huge 3 points on a 700 point scale. Whew!

Nothing really competes with the 550i now - as V8s in this class are going the way of the dodo. I don't know the plans, but I'd bet BMW will be phasing it out soon, too. The E400 indeed competes with a 535i.

"Die E-Klasse kann Komfort und Sport"..."Achtung BMW! Mercedes holt wieder auf!" - looks like Autobild doesn't hate it.


[QUOTE=K-A;5944763]Or maybe a BMW feature to keep getting you out of old ones prematurely, thus paying more, then into new ones.

 

Yes, it beat the E400. That's more like an E350 beating a 550i. The E400 is supposed to be a step above the 535i (by price/power positioning) yet the 535i (NON M suspension/M Sport) still "beats" it.

If the 535i can beat an E400, which has more power, and is more expensive, then it would have annihilated the E350, just as it does in real world dynamics, tactile material quality, safety, solidity, handling, smoothness, quietness, technology, UI, design lasting ability, features, sales, etc. (I could go on ).

Reliability, the E statistically probably has that going for it.

 

E350 doesn't universally compete with 535i, though. Not really apples to apples. That's why it is cheaper and less powerful. Nothing says the brands need to have every single model competing with the main opponent. E550 competed with 550i, but V8s are an anachronism in that category. BMW will lose theirs soon enough.

3 points on a 700 point scale. Whoa.

 

Excuses.

We all know the 535i competes with the E350. It costs more because it's an inherently more expensive and well performing car.

The E400 however is positioned higher than the 535i, as it's actually closer to a E550 replacement already. So the 535i winning AT ALL shows just how above-and-beyond-requirements the cars capabilities are. If the E350 beat the 550i by 3 points, that'd be equally impressive, though we know that wouldn't happen.

If that test was of the 535i VS E350, it's plausible or likely that "3 points" would turn to something in the double or triple digits.

 

By 3 f-ing points out of 500+. It's like 0.6%. In a German magazine. Based on some subjective measure by some "experts". Because how else can you measure and put a number on something like interior quality, handling and roadfeel? Yeah, it totally killed it. You sir, are a retard.

 

I beat an E400. It would have crushed an E350.

Jealousy isn't a good color on you.

BTW, I'd only trust German or Euro mags covering these cars. To this day U.S magazines pick the wrong German cars as their "fav's" (remember how much they loved the E60?).

 

If you read the article it says that Mercedes lost because of the price but that the E400 is not a looser because of it.

Now that Mercedes has a turbo V6, it seems that the engine is the direct comparison to the 535i.

 

Speak for yourself. 535i is higher spec and higher price.

3 points. If that's all you've got, well...good luck with that. Did you not see the very positive remarks mentioned (in German) in the statistically insignificant point difference?

I bet with the optional turn signal package that so few BMW drivers choose, the price equals an E550. too

 

Again, the E400 is closer to an E550 (is actually expected to replace the E550). So by them saying that, they're saying that the E400, despite its higher price, isn't a better car, hence still awarding the lower-positioned 535i.

If a magazine compared an E350 to an 550i, for example, even with the E350's lower price, I'm sure the 550i would come out on top because it wears its price more authentically than the E400 seems to wear its.

Yes, the E400 will finally give M-B something to compete with the 535i on (in 6 cylinder terms) in terms of power, but again, it's a brand new motor, at a higher price, and doesn't outperform BMW's N55 I6 which debuted in 2010 (or 2009 maybe even). BMW is about due to replace their next generation Inline 6 turbo which will push closer to 400 HP. The current N55 is such an underrated, flawless beast of a motor, the test above just shows how overengineered it itself if, as the new E400 with higher apparent specs can't outshine it.

They gave the 535i a better rating in design and handling, which again shows how much further it goes for a car that's supposed to be lower than the E400.

It would have annihilated the E350, thus showing how out of its league the 535i is.