no_mulligan

+1 on waterless increases chances of marring.

On occasion, I will use ONR. It was so cold, my hose must be frozen up. I load up my backpack sprayer and flood the entire vehicle. I use one side of a MF towel and blot. Spray some more and blot with the other side of the towel. Then, put the towel in the laundry bin. Repeat. Gone thru a ton of towels.
I do it in my garage where it's always above 50.
I own a home with a garage. I will not keep any car properly detailed without it. I must have electricity, water, power, shade, and controlled environment. Polymers don't cross link under 50. I would move or sell my black e550. CORRECTION, I would move. If I couldn't afford to move, I would sell my car because I would feel that car over crib is a poor choice. That's my opinion and don't anybody take offense.
Carnuba wax melt around 155 degrees. Not worth putting on where I live. Sealants generally must cure above 50 for at 8 hours otherwise it does crosslink (bond?). I tried spray products that are not more than oil-like but wash off. There is no magic in a bottle out there. So much junk in the air like pollen, acid rain, tree sap, birds and bugs. Oils, antifreeze, tar and grease on the roads being slung up. It's a weekly task for me but I enjoy it. It's no wonder that improper washing contributes to the swirls and random isolated deep scratches (RIDS).

hyperion667

good luck OP, black car was the worst choice ever haha for me

petee1997

After reading all this stuff, it makes me appreciate my choice of diamond white.

K-A

I know this will make people here cringe, but with ALL my previous cars I used to keep them waxed so the paint was protected, and during washes I would ONLY wash with a warm bucket of water and a careful use of a chamois and MF. ALL my previous long-term cars which I actually put attention to were pristine and constantly praised for how clean they were (this included a blue, pewter and 2 whites).

My friend is now driving my previous 2011 Arctic White E and calls me regularly to tell me just how many compliments the cars appearance and "care", shine, cleanliness, etc. gets. And my friend is a MAJOR detail freak when it comes to cars upkeep as well.

When under certain low desert sunlight I could see marring all over my '11 E, which was there from the dealer at least in part (under an LED light I could see very hard swirls all over), however this was only visible under said lighting like once or twice. Under ALL other lights the car seemed flawless, insanely shiny, always clean, etc. One thing I don't like about soap is that I feel it dulls surfaces if used to much, namely plastics and such, and strips wax pretty soon (my not using soaps really prolonged the wax on my car). One thing I like about Waterless/Rinseless products is that they come with wax in them as well.

With my black car, I've spent over $450 on separate Paint Corrections already (fault of improper buffing my the dealer than a crap wash I trusted with the car thereafter.... never again), just spent almost $100 on all these "washing tools", freakishly scan the paint in all sorts of different lightings, am going through different methods of washing, and I ALREADY notice very slight marring under very bright sunlight.

Hilarious how differently this experience has been with my previous ones in which I had what people I know would continuously praise as "the guy with the cleanest cars" and using the laziest method of care to get such results, just making sure I was diligent and on top of said method.

I have no doubts by the time I'm due with this car, I will swear off black forever (as I had done before I ever had a new black car due to predicting this very scenario). However even with a little marring (which I find acceptable with black, as long as the swirls aren't ridiculous and as long as the car looks flawless under indirect or more moderate lighting which isn't too hard on black, especially when fresh coats of wax/protection are on it), however for now I've been completely taken by the dark side.... I'm infatuated with the color on a proper setup.

no_mulligan

Swirls are fine scratches in the clear coat largely created by contact by something harder than the clear coat such as towels, sponges, brushes in the absense of adequate lubricity. I use soapy water because it aids the removable of bug guts, brake dust, chemical deposits, oils, etc.. where creation of swirls is reduced significantly.
Clearly (pun intended), the clear coat is what give the car the bling. Defects are a zing. These defects come not only come from mechanical means but chemical as well. If contaminents aren't removed in a timely manner, no matter what sacrificial product I have on it, will visibly damage the clear coat.
The more the clear coat is level, the more it "shines" because it is capable of refecting light. When marring or other damages exist, imagine ridges and valleys that light gets reflected in different directions, makes for a dull look.
I wash weekly and my sealant lasts months. If your wash is drying out rubber and stripping sealant, could the culprit be concentration level or it's the wrong product.
Majority of people don't know how to wash properly or regularly (automatic car washes don't count) nor knowledgeable of what is truely world class or just above average paint condition. All good. People have different passions.

Pewter was a lot harder to detect swirls but the Stone interior was not a joy keeping clean. Especially the cloth door sills. Will never miss that.

I've never heard of a water only wash, chamois and MF towel as a winning combo. It's pretty much the opposite of current best detailing practices. How does tar, oil, and grease come off with water only? Maybe I should try the Sham-WOW!

K-A

Idk. Maybe our water out here has so many chemicals that it was enough to remove anything off that car, lol. I literally mean anything. Bird crap, tar, etc. The paint was always slick so anything would come off easily, and the car would be spotless after washes. Shiny, etc. Warm water seems to be MUCH more slick and effective at safely washing a car than cold hose water on another hand.

Yeah, my biggest mistake when first washing my black car with a Waterless Wash actually wasn't the wash method. That part left the paint un-marred, it was me taking on buffing out the excess wax for the first time on a black car. I made the mistake of using a W.W with Kaolin Clay which not only was pointless for a car with a fresh coat of Menzernas Sealant on it, but I believe it was said clay that was so insanely hard to buff out on the car. Carnuba Waxes have always been pretty easy for me to buff, or maybe it's because on a white car you can't see excess smears anyway, but on my black car where you can see everything, I noticed the wax was being stubborn. I was using the plushest MF's I've ever felt and still, I noticed instant slight swirling while I was trying to buff the sticky wax/clay off the car.

Sucks and big mistake (of which happened after I paid for a Paint Correction), but I let myself chalk it up to a learning experience and though I do notice marring from it in direct hard sunlight, it's acceptable as long as it doesn't get drastically worse. The learning process got me to get ONR and some new wash mitts, etc. Hopefully that first self-wash I did will be my biggest mistake to date in terms of washing the car.

mbuster25

no_mulligan, you seem to know a lot about car detailing! I hear ya' brother. Spraying to get the heavy stuff off, and blotting as to not create scratches are great tips.

I also wash regularly, weather and time permitting. It's kind of therapeutic to wash the car outside and it beats mowing the lawn. But the real benefit is keeping contaminants off the car, allowing me to inspect the car's condition, and possibly address something that need to be addressed. One time I washed and found a nail in the tire, another time, car had picked up white road paint (the ones they use to paint line, lane markers), or tar spots all over one side. No, I don't go around my car all the time to inspect it. It's the car wash that allows me that opportunity!

K-A

So I tried ONR Wash/Wax the other day for the first time.

Let me first say that having no choice but to do either a Waterless or Rinseless Wash, I've become quite fond of them for their ease of use, and more-so than anything because the good ones contain wax inside them, making it so your car ALWAYS has a fresh coat of wax and protection on it. The first time I used one was a waterless wash with Kaolin Clay. I loved it on my white W212 for its ease of use considering it was a 2 step process (wash and wax), but on my F10 it was a disaster. The Kaolin Clay was so hard to buff out, it left micro-marring on my car.

Some bad things happen for a good reason because due to that I researched and found out about ONR, which had JUST come out with a new Wash/Wash version (I'm a firm believer that a black car cannot have too soon of a new wax coat on top of it).

I REALLY like the ONR stuff. Pretty much exactly what I've always wanted. I used a two buck method, a high quality MF wash mitt and some super soft/plush MF towels.

Best part is the wax is VERY easy to buff off making it so you don't risk marring your car considering how often you'd have to buff out the wax (considering it's a black car which you simply want touched as little as often).

I do understand that it is not as good as regular soap/hose/etc. as getting the car spotless clean.... but it is close.

Where it is truly superior to a soap/hose situation is the shine it provides, as the wax within it gives you again, that truly "Just waxed" look of rich depth. Autogeek did a review of ONR wash/wax and said that it is easier to dry than ONR's classic "wash/shine" due to being "less wet" which I attribute to the wax. It was also said that ONR wash/wax provides less "shine" to a car than ONR wash/shine because the Carnuba in it gives more of the typically waxed "depth" (which I much prefer, especially on a black car which is all about depth). IMO a soap will get the car looking more similar to ONR Wash/Shine in terms of shine VS depth than ONR wash/wax.

Overall I'd recommend it to anyone who doesn't have access to, doesn't want to nor can't waste the extra water, or doesn't like the hose method. Using two buckets of warm water and being extra careful is key. Use the water soaked on your mitt to soak up as much of the panel that you're about to dry, and still use the "blotting method" first to break up the dirt before you start wiping, and when I say wiping I mean CAREFULLY (as you should always do with a black car).

So far, so good.

no_mulligan

If you are into waterless/rinseless, ever try the Gary Dean method? You never reuse a dirty towel. You use less water. I have not tried it.

hyperion667

my solution: sell my black car, buy another haha

K-A

Keep hearing about it but haven't looked into it. Will have to learn about it.

SnakeDoctor

I used to preform swirl treatment once a year or so. With life being more busy these days, I can't. But my approach has always been clean the car with Dove or whatever to take off all wax and stuff. Clay bar the car. Then start with 3m Rubbing compound. It will be VERY swirly after this. But then you move up to finer and finer grit compounds.

You have to be very careful to not burn through your clearcoat. The last steps are usuall scratch x or something very light at that point. Then wax a couple of coats. Stand back and admire. It's a long process though. I only really did this with a non-daily.

steelgrey

Mercedes Benz uses PPG's CeramiClear clearcoat although it is very hard and very shiny it is also 2 mls thick. Unfortunately using an aggressive swirl removal process like Rubbing Compound would completely destroy your clearcoat. I'm not going to go into the recommend procedures but it is a rule of detailing that you start with the least aggressive pad/product and then get more aggressive if that doesn't work. Before getting out your DA polisher I suggest you do some research. Autogeek.net and Autopia.org are both good sources for expert advice. Search Ceramiclear and Nano.

ImInPA

Always start with the least aggresive product for your finish. Only use more agressive products if the results are not as expected. I cannot imagine having to use Rubbing Compound on the ceramiclear finish.

Chris.dumpson

Your best bet with black is to get a portacable orbital and some 3m hand glaze take ur time and glaze the car really good using alot of glaze with the portacable. If the glaze becomes hard to take off u can always use a spray detailer because the wetness will assist with removing the glaze very easy. Once u have removed all of the glaze go to a detail supply store or marine supply store and get some colinites wax for boats. Also get a good bottle of liquid wax from meguires or mothers and mix the 2 together. Put that on the entire car and like with the glaze if its a little hard to remove just use some spray detailer. In the end u will be very happy and that goes for all colors.. DONT FORGET TO ALWAYS USE A NEW OR CLEAN MICROFIBER AND ALWAYS REMOVE WITH ONE SIDE OF THE TOWEL AND GO OVER IT AGAIN WITH THE OTHER SIDE THAT HAS NO WAX/glaze on it

K-A

Glaze just hides swirls though. You'd want to use a Polish to actually remove them.

Chris.dumpson

Thats all u can do once a swirl is in the paint from a machine u can only hide it thats y i said glaze it then wax it