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Usefullness of 3rd row seat in wagon
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From: Central Coast, CA
2020 X7 xDrive40i, 2016 X3 sDrive28i
Usefullness of 3rd row seat in wagon
Hi All,
Purchased a 2013 E350 wagon last week, am wondering the usefulness of the 3rd row seat. Manual says its for 4.5ft or shorter people, which pretty much limits it to kids. However since kids are required to sit in car seats, is it legal to have a kid sit back there?
There is no room to fit a car seat in the 3rd row, so if a child does sit back there it would have to be without a car seat.
I've asked my neighbor (local sheriff) and a friend who is member of SFPD, neither of them know the answer for sure, (they've asked their coworkers as well).
It seems if this seat is only suitable for kids, but its not legal for kids to sit there, than why go to the expense and weight of adding the 3rd row seat? Would've been better off lowering the price or enlarging the storage area.
Anyone know if its legal (in any state) for a child under 8 to site in the 3rd row of the wagon without a car seat?
thanks
Purchased a 2013 E350 wagon last week, am wondering the usefulness of the 3rd row seat. Manual says its for 4.5ft or shorter people, which pretty much limits it to kids. However since kids are required to sit in car seats, is it legal to have a kid sit back there?
There is no room to fit a car seat in the 3rd row, so if a child does sit back there it would have to be without a car seat.
I've asked my neighbor (local sheriff) and a friend who is member of SFPD, neither of them know the answer for sure, (they've asked their coworkers as well).
It seems if this seat is only suitable for kids, but its not legal for kids to sit there, than why go to the expense and weight of adding the 3rd row seat? Would've been better off lowering the price or enlarging the storage area.
Anyone know if its legal (in any state) for a child under 8 to site in the 3rd row of the wagon without a car seat?
thanks
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MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
The 3rd row seat is optional. Perhaps MBUSA doesn't allow you to delete it, but for Canada you can replace it with the EASY-PACK load securing setup.
In any case, it is legal as per federal laws in the US (otherwise it wouldn't be offered on the vehicle).
In any case, it is legal as per federal laws in the US (otherwise it wouldn't be offered on the vehicle).
Thread Starter
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From: Central Coast, CA
2020 X7 xDrive40i, 2016 X3 sDrive28i
My question isn't whether its legal or not to have the seat there. the question is if it would be legal to have kids under 8 in the seat without a child safety seat or booster seat in place. 
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2015 GL450
I do not know whether there is a distinction between the rear seats and the extra rear seats, but perhaps this helps?
http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/l...fety_laws.html
http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/l...fety_laws.html
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Central Coast, CA
2020 X7 xDrive40i, 2016 X3 sDrive28i
Not really as the link is for the general child safety seat law, doesn't explicitly specify a rear facing 3rd row.
In this case, a child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row. MB states 3rd row is for people 4.5ft or shorter. Child seat law says must be greater than 57" to not need child safety seat. 57" is greater than 4.5 ft, so by the time a child grows out of his/her safety seat (per CA law) they have out grown the safe size to sit in this 3rd row seat as well.
Which all goes back to my original question, how useful is this seat if 1) only people under 4.5ft tall can sit in it, 2) people under that height are most likely kids, 3) kids under 4ft 9" tall have to be in a child safety seat per CA law, 4) 4ft 9" is over 4.5ft, 5) child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row.
So in essence, this 3rd row is completely useless. Can't sit anyone there. Why did they even bothered including it? Would've been more useful to use the space as extra storage, or lower the weight of the vehicle (the seat back and seat bottom together weigh over 100 pounds).
I can't get a firm answer from CHP, local police and sheriff office, or MBUSA.
In this case, a child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row. MB states 3rd row is for people 4.5ft or shorter. Child seat law says must be greater than 57" to not need child safety seat. 57" is greater than 4.5 ft, so by the time a child grows out of his/her safety seat (per CA law) they have out grown the safe size to sit in this 3rd row seat as well.
Which all goes back to my original question, how useful is this seat if 1) only people under 4.5ft tall can sit in it, 2) people under that height are most likely kids, 3) kids under 4ft 9" tall have to be in a child safety seat per CA law, 4) 4ft 9" is over 4.5ft, 5) child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row.
So in essence, this 3rd row is completely useless. Can't sit anyone there. Why did they even bothered including it? Would've been more useful to use the space as extra storage, or lower the weight of the vehicle (the seat back and seat bottom together weigh over 100 pounds).
I can't get a firm answer from CHP, local police and sheriff office, or MBUSA.
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From: Pittsburgh
2012 E550
Not really as the link is for the general child safety seat law, doesn't explicitly specify a rear facing 3rd row.
In this case, a child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row. MB states 3rd row is for people 4.5ft or shorter. Child seat law says must be greater than 57" to not need child safety seat. 57" is greater than 4.5 ft, so by the time a child grows out of his/her safety seat (per CA law) they have out grown the safe size to sit in this 3rd row seat as well.
Which all goes back to my original question, how useful is this seat if 1) only people under 4.5ft tall can sit in it, 2) people under that height are most likely kids, 3) kids under 4ft 9" tall have to be in a child safety seat per CA law, 4) 4ft 9" is over 4.5ft, 5) child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row.
So in essence, this 3rd row is completely useless. Can't sit anyone there. Why did they even bothered including it? Would've been more useful to use the space as extra storage, or lower the weight of the vehicle (the seat back and seat bottom together weigh over 100 pounds).
I can't get a firm answer from CHP, local police and sheriff office, or MBUSA.
In this case, a child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row. MB states 3rd row is for people 4.5ft or shorter. Child seat law says must be greater than 57" to not need child safety seat. 57" is greater than 4.5 ft, so by the time a child grows out of his/her safety seat (per CA law) they have out grown the safe size to sit in this 3rd row seat as well.
Which all goes back to my original question, how useful is this seat if 1) only people under 4.5ft tall can sit in it, 2) people under that height are most likely kids, 3) kids under 4ft 9" tall have to be in a child safety seat per CA law, 4) 4ft 9" is over 4.5ft, 5) child safety seat will not fit in the 3rd row.
So in essence, this 3rd row is completely useless. Can't sit anyone there. Why did they even bothered including it? Would've been more useful to use the space as extra storage, or lower the weight of the vehicle (the seat back and seat bottom together weigh over 100 pounds).
I can't get a firm answer from CHP, local police and sheriff office, or MBUSA.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
It sounds like the OP should have asked these questions before purchasing. In many states it goes by a childs weight and height once the child is beyond infant seat carriers. A booster seat would fit with no problems in the third row of the MB wagon. There is no requirement on orientation. All of these questions could be answered by the dealer. My neighbor shuttles a slew of soccer players, 7-8 years old, in her wagon, so my vote is that the rear seat is very useful as designed.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Central Coast, CA
2020 X7 xDrive40i, 2016 X3 sDrive28i
I'm the OP and I did ask these questions of the dealer before purchase but could not get a firm answer. the salesman I was working with was a retired police officer, he told me what the law states, but there is nothing defined clearly in California law about 3rd row rear facing seats.
I did not have time to research more as it was 5pm on April 30th and we were trying to get in on a month end deal to save some $$. Our choices were either ML350 without 3rd row, or E350 wagon with the 3rd row that may come in handy on occasion. So we went with the E350 wagon.
Since the purchase, I've checked with 6 different police departments including several California highway patrol offices, and not a single one is sure where the state law stands regarding this issue/question.
My 5 year old son's classmate has an A6 allroad and an older E320 wagon that has 3rd row and they do use it frequently, and without a car seat.
I'd rather error on the side of caution whenever it comes to the safety and well being of my kid.
Seems I won't get a clear answer, so I may just not use the seat unless absolutely necessary. (i.e. when I have to ferry around the entire 5 year old basketball team that I voluntarily coach).
Thanks
I did not have time to research more as it was 5pm on April 30th and we were trying to get in on a month end deal to save some $$. Our choices were either ML350 without 3rd row, or E350 wagon with the 3rd row that may come in handy on occasion. So we went with the E350 wagon.
Since the purchase, I've checked with 6 different police departments including several California highway patrol offices, and not a single one is sure where the state law stands regarding this issue/question.
My 5 year old son's classmate has an A6 allroad and an older E320 wagon that has 3rd row and they do use it frequently, and without a car seat.
I'd rather error on the side of caution whenever it comes to the safety and well being of my kid.
Seems I won't get a clear answer, so I may just not use the seat unless absolutely necessary. (i.e. when I have to ferry around the entire 5 year old basketball team that I voluntarily coach).
Thanks
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Wow! Your 5 year old son's classmate has two nice vehicles (well, for a 5 year old). Does he use a booster seat or car seat, and, how is his access to the accelerator and brake pedals? Sorry, I could not resist that.
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2015 GL450
When I was worried about these sorts of issues, I found the fire department to be more knowledgeable than the police. Often the FD has someone certified in child seat safety and installation. They might be able to point out safety issues or reassure you. I would think kids would be safer in the 3rd row of your E class than in any seat of many other cars.
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From: Central Coast, CA
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When I was worried about these sorts of issues, I found the fire department to be more knowledgeable than the police. Often the FD has someone certified in child seat safety and installation. They might be able to point out safety issues or reassure you. I would think kids would be safer in the 3rd row of your E class than in any seat of many other cars.
About safety, I totally agree, This thing is built like a tank. That's why we decided to fork over the extra $$ to get the MB E350 wagon vs another vehicle.
People can quote crash test ratings all they want, but my thought is this, crash tests are done in controlled environments (speed, angle of impact etc), real accidents are not in controlled environments, over the last 22 years, I've witnessed enough accidents to know those in german vehicles have a much higher chance of surviving an accident then those in japanese vehicles. And that's why my family buy nothing but german vehicles, even though they cost more to buy and more to maintain. Our lives are worth it.
This accident I was in two weeks ago that totaled my car (and thus need to buy this E350 wagon), had I been in anything other than my VW Passat wagon at the time, I would've been seriously injured.
We once had a new audi a4 give up its life to save the lives of my parents and grandmother. the occupants of the other two vehicles in the accident (both Japanese vehicles) were not so lucky. (two died, one permanent brain damage, while my parents and grandmother walked away with a few scratches from broken glass).
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From: Boston Area
2021 Mojave Silver E450, 2024 Black on Black Jaguar F-pace P400, 2011 335d (RIP), 2010 E350 (sold)
A child booster seat is required so that the shoulder strap does not go across their neck. Are you saying that a booster seat won't fit back there? They really are pretty small. You are not required to have the back portion of of the booster, just the part that they sit on to boost them up to get their shoulder under the seat-belt. This really should fit on the 3rd row seat. The seat design back there is also quite different because of the smaller area and since they are designed for shorter people I would bet that the shoulder straps will work without the booster.
If you are looking for clarification on the law only, then I don't know. Our local Fire department was also more helpful to us than the PD so you might want to try them as someone else suggested.
If you are looking for clarification on the law only, then I don't know. Our local Fire department was also more helpful to us than the PD so you might want to try them as someone else suggested.
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From: Central Coast, CA
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My son is quite tall for his age. he is not yet 6 and is already nearing out growing his britax frontier 85 full back booster. But he is not at the 57" required by the state of CA to not need a car seat.
Instead of trying to find out what the law says, I'm just going to buy a low or no back booster for use in the 3rd row. Although he does not need a booster to be seated at the proper height for proper seat belt fit in the 3rd row. This way if we ever get stopped, I can show the police men that the child is in a child safety seat.
MB really designed that 3rd row for small people thus the seat belt is also designed for smaller people. the seat belt in the 3rd row fits him better than the 5 point harness on the britax frontier 85 full height booster he has now.
Instead of trying to find out what the law says, I'm just going to buy a low or no back booster for use in the 3rd row. Although he does not need a booster to be seated at the proper height for proper seat belt fit in the 3rd row. This way if we ever get stopped, I can show the police men that the child is in a child safety seat.
MB really designed that 3rd row for small people thus the seat belt is also designed for smaller people. the seat belt in the 3rd row fits him better than the 5 point harness on the britax frontier 85 full height booster he has now.
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2004 E-320 4-Matic Wagon
I'm not sure on the law... Seems open to interpretation, like many laws.
I have two E wagons, an 04, and an 11, both with the third row. Once my kids get a bit bigger I plan on letting sit back there. Rear facing is safer and the seat is really no differet than using a booster in the second row. I think as long as the seatbelt falls in the right place you are good.
BTW - The Tesla also has a thrid row, only it's options and comes with 5-point harness. The dealer told me that it is considered a legal child seat.
I have two E wagons, an 04, and an 11, both with the third row. Once my kids get a bit bigger I plan on letting sit back there. Rear facing is safer and the seat is really no differet than using a booster in the second row. I think as long as the seatbelt falls in the right place you are good.
BTW - The Tesla also has a thrid row, only it's options and comes with 5-point harness. The dealer told me that it is considered a legal child seat.
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2015 E400 wagon
My 5 and 9 year olds fit perfectly fine without a booster in the third row of our wagon, and they love it. My only problem is how close they are to the tailgate and I worry about being rear ended at speed. I don’t use the third row on the highway...
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2015 E400 Sedan
remember rear facing is safer in frontal accidents.... then normal seat.
So normal seats need booster thingys to ensure seatbelts work with smaller children bodies...
but if rear facing the seat belt just keeps kids from sliding side to side and keeps them in place...
everything changes if rear ended though....
plus car sickness comes into play when looking rearwards as I remember my days in the oldChevy wagon rear facing set by that big curved roll down window...
BLEHhhh thinking of make me queasy.
So normal seats need booster thingys to ensure seatbelts work with smaller children bodies...
but if rear facing the seat belt just keeps kids from sliding side to side and keeps them in place...
everything changes if rear ended though....
plus car sickness comes into play when looking rearwards as I remember my days in the oldChevy wagon rear facing set by that big curved roll down window...
BLEHhhh thinking of make me queasy.
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E400 Wagon
The 3rd row rear-facing seats are fantastic if you have kids who fit the height restrictions.
Food for thought: the purpose of a booster seat is to bring the child higher up so that the seatbelt properly fits and to help children sit comfortably by raising them up so they can sit up against the seatback with their knees bent over the edge of the booster or vehicle seat.
Well, the rear facing seats do all of that. Little legs bend perfectly and feet are flat on the floor, the seatbelts are designed to fit kids just as is, (and even the headrests are adjustable). Thus the need for a booster in these rear-facing seats is moot.
I think that facing backwards is actually safer. Infant car seats are installed rear-facing for that reason: A rear-facing seat provides the best protection for a child’s head, neck, and spine in a sudden stop or crash.
The one thing that I would like to know about though is what the crumple zone is like in the event of a rear collision.
edit re rear crumple zone: https://www.benzworld.org/threads/my-wagons-gone-check-out-this-hit.1278974/
Food for thought: the purpose of a booster seat is to bring the child higher up so that the seatbelt properly fits and to help children sit comfortably by raising them up so they can sit up against the seatback with their knees bent over the edge of the booster or vehicle seat.
Well, the rear facing seats do all of that. Little legs bend perfectly and feet are flat on the floor, the seatbelts are designed to fit kids just as is, (and even the headrests are adjustable). Thus the need for a booster in these rear-facing seats is moot.
I think that facing backwards is actually safer. Infant car seats are installed rear-facing for that reason: A rear-facing seat provides the best protection for a child’s head, neck, and spine in a sudden stop or crash.
The one thing that I would like to know about though is what the crumple zone is like in the event of a rear collision.
edit re rear crumple zone: https://www.benzworld.org/threads/my-wagons-gone-check-out-this-hit.1278974/
Last edited by originalpie; May 6, 2022 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Link to rear-ended wagon w/photo
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2011 E350 wagon, 2014 E63S Wagon
The 3rd row rear-facing seats are fantastic if you have kids who fit the height restrictions.
Food for thought: the purpose of a booster seat is to bring the child higher up so that the seatbelt properly fits and to help children sit comfortably by raising them up so they can sit up against the seatback with their knees bent over the edge of the booster or vehicle seat.
Well, the rear facing seats do all of that. Little legs bend perfectly and feet are flat on the floor, the seatbelts are designed to fit kids just as is, (and even the headrests are adjustable). Thus the need for a booster in these rear-facing seats is moot.
I think that facing backwards is actually safer. Infant car seats are installed rear-facing for that reason: A rear-facing seat provides the best protection for a child’s head, neck, and spine in a sudden stop or crash.
The one thing that I would like to know about though is what the crumple zone is like in the event of a rear collision.
edit re rear crumple zone: https://www.benzworld.org/threads/my-wagons-gone-check-out-this-hit.1278974/
Food for thought: the purpose of a booster seat is to bring the child higher up so that the seatbelt properly fits and to help children sit comfortably by raising them up so they can sit up against the seatback with their knees bent over the edge of the booster or vehicle seat.
Well, the rear facing seats do all of that. Little legs bend perfectly and feet are flat on the floor, the seatbelts are designed to fit kids just as is, (and even the headrests are adjustable). Thus the need for a booster in these rear-facing seats is moot.
I think that facing backwards is actually safer. Infant car seats are installed rear-facing for that reason: A rear-facing seat provides the best protection for a child’s head, neck, and spine in a sudden stop or crash.
The one thing that I would like to know about though is what the crumple zone is like in the event of a rear collision.
edit re rear crumple zone: https://www.benzworld.org/threads/my-wagons-gone-check-out-this-hit.1278974/
similar accident
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
^^^^^ I saved the topic on benzword when it was posted 15 (?) years ago, From what I remember MB driver walked away, when Lexus driver had to be airlifted. Analyzing it at the time, I concluded that when 3rd row passengers could have feet injuries, the cabin still is not crushed, so fully livable accident.
I did have W210 wagon and W211 wagon.
In W210 I had my 6-4" friend and his slightly overweigh wife sitting in the rear without complains. That was however on Las Vegas Strip cruising, so not long (although time-consuming) trip.
In W211 the ingenious engineers fit fuel tank under 2nd row seat, so spare donut wheel went under rear passengers feet. Pretty good fit, so I wonder if W212 owner can show picture how it is done in this model.
Still I prefer full size spare and turned that by removing some lining on W211 it did fit, what made me happy.
Now W212 wagon with 4-cylinder diesel engine has been my dream for long years. Especially when you see them selling in UK for $2-3,000
I am still drooling.
I did have W210 wagon and W211 wagon.
In W210 I had my 6-4" friend and his slightly overweigh wife sitting in the rear without complains. That was however on Las Vegas Strip cruising, so not long (although time-consuming) trip.
In W211 the ingenious engineers fit fuel tank under 2nd row seat, so spare donut wheel went under rear passengers feet. Pretty good fit, so I wonder if W212 owner can show picture how it is done in this model.
Still I prefer full size spare and turned that by removing some lining on W211 it did fit, what made me happy.
Now W212 wagon with 4-cylinder diesel engine has been my dream for long years. Especially when you see them selling in UK for $2-3,000
I am still drooling.
Last edited by kajtek1; May 7, 2022 at 04:14 PM.
