electricbro

When I was exiting the highway yesterday night (around 40 mph), I hit the brake but the car did not show any response until 2 or 3 seconds later, it is really dangerous and nearly caused an accident. This happened several times since I bought the car in 2011. Did you guys experience the same issue on W212 E class?

I feel kind of frustrating, since I cannot reproduce the issue when I brought it to dealer, nothing they can do to help me. By the way, the car is a 2011 E350 Bluetec.

Any suggestions?

electricbro

No one knows?

hyperion667

take a tech or an advisor with you and hope it happens again.......
sounds like a very strange problem, good luck!

DC-IT

Have you checked your brake fluid level?
I would get the dealer to check the brakes.


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Live Oak

This is one where I'd document on service orders every time you have it in, and if they don't put their conclusion on the service document, hand write what they say contemporaneously. And take it in a lot. Make them create a service document. And let them see you write it up.

This makes MB know you are serious, and holding THEM responsible for any thing that happens. They might decide they need to do a truly comprehensive examination of the brakes.

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT!

CEB

There is something wrong here. I know of nobody who would have a brake issue like this and continue driving the car.

Any rational person would have the car towed to the dealer and not accept it back until an issue was found.

The other alternative is that the OP confused the brake pedal with the gas pedal.

newyorktoLA

Although it sounds dangerous OP, I know we can't quit our lives by not driving and take up hours of nonsense by towing our cars.

On my brake pedal, there is a certain point (approx. 1/3 of the way down) where my pedal starts working. Maybe you didn't reach that point in the first few seconds of braking?

Good luck with your issue

alanme123

Is the brake only working after 2 or 3 seconds after the same amount of pressure is applied to it, or is it only working after pressing it 1/3 of the way in??

Raymond Lee

I think I would shoot for master cylinder.

ImInPA

There is obviously something missing from the OPs original post. There would be fault codes and lights lighting up if the brakes had no pressure, or if the master cylinder failed, or of the fluid was low enough to cause such symptoms. I agree with the post that questions why someone would drive a vehicle that is know to have no braking ability at random times. The good thing is that brakes are relatively easy to troubleshoot. Until the OP posts about the faulty parts or parts that were replaced, I am going to agree with the assessment that this is pilot error.

CEB

You are an intelligent person. Are you telling me that you would continue to drive a car once the brakes failed to work for 2 to 3 seconds after you applied them? IF your brakes failed to work for that long period of time and you don't flatbed the car to a dealer without driving it another foot then you have a death wish.

Actually, you may wish to get your brakes checked too if you get NO braking for the first third of brake travel. As you know, the brakes are progressive but the W212 starts braking as soon as you bypass the relay - way up on top.

electricbro

already took the car in, dealer said can not reproduce the issue and found no codes in computer.

CEB

It is very simple. If you encounter a significant safety issue like this then you flatbed the car to the dealer and have them resolve it. If they can't, then you don't pick up the car but send a certified letter to MB informing them of the problem and telling them to fix the problem or replace the car.

At the same time (if you are in the US) you should notify NHTSA at safercar.gov and I'd also pick up the phone and call a lemon lawyer.

electricbro

Thanks for your suggestion. I did some research on NHTSA and found a complaint also for 2011 E350. The description is very similar to mine!

-----------------------------------

Date Complaint Filed: 06/24/2013

Date of Incident: 06/11/2013
NHTSA ID Number: 10522362

Vehicle Identification No. (VIN): WDDHF5GB6BA...
SUMMARY:

I WAS COMING OUT OF THE PARKING GARAGE. I PROCEEDED TO THE ENTRANCE TO GARAGE. THE STREET WAS NARROW FOR TWO CARS TO PASS BY. I MADE A RIGHT TURN FROM THE GARAGE EXIT TO THE NARROW STREET WITH 5 MPH SPEED. THERE WERE TWO CARS ABOUT 25 FEET AWAY ALREADY ON THAT STREET. THOSE TWO CARS WERE WAITING TO MAKE A LEFT OR RIGHT TURN ON MAIN STREET AT THE T JUNCTION. SUDDENLY MY CAR ACCELERATED TO 45 MPH APPROXIMATELY. I APPLIED THE BRAKE BUT THE BRAKE DID NOT EVEN SLOW DOWN THE CAR. WITH THE BRAKE NOT WORKING AND THE CAR ACCELERATING VERY FAST, THE CAR BECAME OUT OF CONTROL.....
---------------------------------------------------------

CEB

Actually, that sounds like somebody mistaking the gas pedal for the brake.

ttoE550

I was at a drivers' event at a racetrack. We were all taking laps in race cars. The guy in the car I was about to get into pulled up, got out angry, red, and visibly shaking. There's something wrong with that car! The brakes don't work at all! As if on cue, the event sponsor and I looked down at his feet and then at each other. He had some massive high-top tennis shoes on his feet. That's kind of funny, I guess, since the gas pedal and brake are often located closer to each other in track cars to help with downshifting while braking. Normal shoes are thin and flexible.

How big are your shoes? Any chance they are hooking onto the accelerator while you are braking and are so inflexible that you can't feel it? If it happens again and you remember, push your knee toward the steering column, which will raise the part of your foot that might be hooked while letting you maintain brake pressure.

From what I understand, since the Prius "issues" manufacturers now have a switch that lets the brake rule if the accelerator and brake are pressed at the same time. There might be a delay that might feel like 2-3 seconds but is probably much shorter. But I am not sure.

Raymond Lee

CEB
I have to agree with you. Driving car in that condition? NO, it doesn't make sense!

K-A

That's odd and freaky. The W211 E-Classes (and any other M-B's with the SBC Braking System) were notorious for brake failures, so M-B is not alien to inoperable brakes, however the difference is that those were fully-electronic, while the W212's are fundamentally hydraulic from what I understand.

pdjv

I think "notorious" is a bit strong. There were problems with SBC - especially in early W211 E class cars, but brake failures were not that common.

K-A

Considering it's such an extreme safety measure being brakes, the mere fact that MB decided they had to lifetime warranty the SBC and enough people reported problems on it, I'd say that's worrisome enough. Though yeah more likely you'd be fine. Still scary though especially as they get older. It did make me paranoid when I had mine.

Arrie

Are you saying that MB made the brakes as "fly by wire" like the gas pedal is? This would be extrely stupid. I understand electronically assisted brakes but fully electronic brakes is just not safe. Next they could make the steering the same way without mechanical connection between the steering wheel and turning of the wheels.

I need to look into other car makers with my next car if MB was so stupid to make fully electronic brakes and sold those to public.

K-A

They did do that, in 2003 however. They introduced it as this "revolutionary new technology" on the SL and E Class and it immediately became enough of a disaster that they pulled the SBC Braking system (Electronic) from the E Class by its facelift for 2007 models. Apparently it had a hydraulic "safety" measure where in the case of brake failure you can use it like a real brake.... but it was basically BS as everyone who had reported failure stated that the hydraulic "safety net" basically meant you had to slam the brake pedal as hard as you can and you might feel the smallest of stopping resistance, i.e rendering it useless. Everyone with an M-B of that time has one worry that goes above and beyond even the dreaded "STOP! Airmatic Failure", which is "STOP, BRAKE FAILURE!" in the IC Display.

People were afraid that making such a fundamentally important thing such as brakes electronic was a bad idea. And they turned out right.

My 2006 E Class did have them and the brake pedal feel also left a lot to be desired ("squishy"), as it didn't feel like a normal brake pedal. However it did have its benefits as advertised by M-B at the time, something about equal pressure to all wheels in stopping, or controlled pressure based on urgency. It was a great system when it came to "Oh Sh**" type stops.

pdjv

Seems to me there's a fair amount of misinformation in this thread.

First, the OP is talking about a W212 E class which does not have SBC.

Second, "brake by wire" is not accurate. True, SBC included an electric pump and boosted the pressure used to push the brake pads into contact with the rotors. Also true that some drivers found the pedal feel to be a bit soft. Also true that there was an issue with a ground wire on early W211 cars and that Mercedes-Benz extended the warranty on the SBC system (to 10 years IIRC). With all that said, in seven years of driving I experienced no problems with the brakes on my 2004 E500. I suspect the move to delete SBC in the E class was more cost-cutting, and had nothing to do with the effectiveness or reliability of SBC.

As a side note, Mercedes-Benz continued using SBC on the SL series; my 2008 SL55 has it. I've heard the SL has an improved version, but the pump still bears the SBC label. If SBC was all that bad, why would Mercedes-Benz continue to use it on one of their flagship products?

CEB

Correct. SBC has nothing to do with the OP's issue and wouldn't even come close to replicating the described fault.

SBC is a supplemental braking aid (like ABS) and the brakes can still be applied following a SBC system failure.

Here is a description of SBC right from the horse's mouth.

todd's benz

I agree, I had rough braking issues on highways... speed limit by me is 65... os 65 and red light comes up with camera...so hard brake. There was a TSB for this but for the E550... but they honored it for the E350.

I also had a separate safety issue related to my windshield. After 3 visits to the dealer I called MBUSA and said this was a safety issue and I it could cause an accident. They contacted dealer and issue was fixed.