RWD vs AWD: Experiences Wanted!
07-12-2013, 12:02 AM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Warren, NJ
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI;'04 S2k;'94 Supra TT;'10 QX56;'38 Buick;98 Port City Offset Late Model
RWD vs AWD: Experiences Wanted!
The E250 CDI and E350 appear available as both rear wheel drive and all wheel drive (4Matic). Obviously the AWD has an advantage on some slippery surfaces, although winter tires mitigate that a bit. Still a big advantage in a snow covered parking lot.
However, I'm more interested in how they drive. We have a RWD W211, with W-rated high performance summer tires or H-rated winter tires depending on the season. I find the steering feel acceptable and the handling very balanced. I usually describe it as very similar to a super late model stock car, something I have a bit of experience with.
The local dealers have lots of AWD model...not RWDs except a few AMGs, S600, etc. I'm wondering if anyone has driven an regular RWD W212 and one with 4Matic back-to-back.
If so, how was the steering feel between the two? Was the handling different?
Some AWD system alter the torque split in response to yaw rate to maintain relatively neutral handling. It doesn't seem MB 4Matic does that though. From a steering feel and handling standpoint, was the RWD or 4Matic better?
Sidebar: This isn't an Audi question where all the models in this class are AWD. At BMW, the problem is more complex. Their AWD does torque vectoring, and uses hydraulic power steering. However, that last item, the hydraulic power steering, means that some options aren't available on the AWD (xDrive) models. Those features include Integral Active Steering, Traffic Jam Assistant (which includes technology similar to Steering Assist), and even Parking Assist.
However, I'm more interested in how they drive. We have a RWD W211, with W-rated high performance summer tires or H-rated winter tires depending on the season. I find the steering feel acceptable and the handling very balanced. I usually describe it as very similar to a super late model stock car, something I have a bit of experience with.
The local dealers have lots of AWD model...not RWDs except a few AMGs, S600, etc. I'm wondering if anyone has driven an regular RWD W212 and one with 4Matic back-to-back.
If so, how was the steering feel between the two? Was the handling different?
Some AWD system alter the torque split in response to yaw rate to maintain relatively neutral handling. It doesn't seem MB 4Matic does that though. From a steering feel and handling standpoint, was the RWD or 4Matic better?
Sidebar: This isn't an Audi question where all the models in this class are AWD. At BMW, the problem is more complex. Their AWD does torque vectoring, and uses hydraulic power steering. However, that last item, the hydraulic power steering, means that some options aren't available on the AWD (xDrive) models. Those features include Integral Active Steering, Traffic Jam Assistant (which includes technology similar to Steering Assist), and even Parking Assist.
07-12-2013, 07:54 AM
#2
Senior Member
I don't think MB's have never encouraged driving at the limit. I think that is where you see the most difference. I think it is easier to throttle balance a rwd but the nanny tends to discourage that sort of behavior anyways.
I had a RWD C300 for two weeks about 2 years ago.
Maybe I was used to my AWD in my other vehicles but I preferred it over the RWD in a few conditions. It was out in Utah and occasionally we were on loose stuff.
My AWD just go through it without any drama whereas the C would slew the rear a bit.
Being in New England, I won't consider a vehicle now if it isn't AWD.
I had a RWD C300 for two weeks about 2 years ago.
Maybe I was used to my AWD in my other vehicles but I preferred it over the RWD in a few conditions. It was out in Utah and occasionally we were on loose stuff.
My AWD just go through it without any drama whereas the C would slew the rear a bit.
Being in New England, I won't consider a vehicle now if it isn't AWD.
07-12-2013, 11:36 AM
#3
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Haslett, Mi
Posts: 736
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2011 E350 4matic
honestly i hated my c230 here in the winter. it was brutal. if i didnt have brand new tires on it i barely could get around and i always had a lot of weight in the trunk too. that is the main reason i went 4matic this time with my E. havent had a winter yet but am very excited to not be worried about the weather.
07-12-2013, 02:57 PM
#4
Member
A RWD car should do fine in the winter as long as you have winter tires on and drive responsibly. One thing I noticed about the AWD cars is that it feels like you are being pulled back when you let off of the gas which I found annoying. The AWD system also adds weight to the car.
07-12-2013, 03:25 PM
#5
Test drove the awd e350 and didn't like the feel of the steering at all. Drove the rwd and bought it immediately. Maybe I'm just old school. I have an suv for winter too though.
07-12-2013, 04:35 PM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
If you are buying a diesel, performance can't be at the top of your list. RWD with snow tires will keep you going in snow but it's not great. Been there and done that. However AWD without snow tires handles great in snow with great control. I have two AWD now and have owned four in the past.
Where I live, an average winter snow accumulation is nine feet. My wife and I have never had a problem and we run on the standard all season tires all year. I might add that AWD performs better on wet roads also. These cars are very stable.
If you live in snow country, it's a no brainer.
Where I live, an average winter snow accumulation is nine feet. My wife and I have never had a problem and we run on the standard all season tires all year. I might add that AWD performs better on wet roads also. These cars are very stable.
If you live in snow country, it's a no brainer.
07-13-2013, 03:43 PM
#7
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Warren, NJ
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'05 E320 CDI;'04 S2k;'94 Supra TT;'10 QX56;'38 Buick;98 Port City Offset Late Model
petee, you experiences are the opposite of mine. I find winter tires make a RWD fine in all but just fallen standing snow. In the cases where there isn't enough traction, FWD and AWD, by powering the steered wheels, can pull you out of a parking space or go over a slippery section. However, with winter tires those conditions are very, very rare.
I thought Ontario required winter tires.
Trending Topics
07-13-2013, 04:21 PM
#8
Senior Member
@DavidNJ: Winter tires are mandatory in Montreal/Quebec but not in Ontario.
I didn't have any issues with my BMW 335d fitted with Winter tires.
My E350BT should be fine here in Toronto/GTA with Wintier tires.
Last few years the South Eastern states down in the US saw much more snow than we do here in Toronto.
I didn't have any issues with my BMW 335d fitted with Winter tires.
My E350BT should be fine here in Toronto/GTA with Wintier tires.
Last few years the South Eastern states down in the US saw much more snow than we do here in Toronto.
07-13-2013, 07:36 PM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
10 Posts
1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Many people don't understand how cars work.
Even with all the electronic nannies, snow traction comes down to how well your tires are connected to the road and the vital role that tires play.
Summer tires have a harder compound with larger blocks in the tread to put as much rubber on the road as possible. The wider the better (in theory) As the temps drop the compound gets very hard and the car turns into a big hockey puck when the temps drop to 50 degrees or so.
all season tires are a compromise. The compound is softer with smaller blocks to allow for limited snow traction. Think of it as the tennis shoe of the tires.
Snow tires have a soft compound, many sipes with bits of silica to give the best grip in snow. When worn about halfway, the sipes and silica start to go away and the tires become the equivalent of all season tires. The compound stays pliable in cold weather. Narrower is better and a taller sidewall is good too.
Try walking up a snow street wearing leather soled dress shoes. Doesn't work well. Tennis shoes are a bit better but still no match for snowshoes.
Now, let's talk AWD. Let's say you have two hard leather gloves on. Will that help you get up that hill? Probably not, but putting a tennis shoe like glove on might be a bit better.
As far as snow traction is concerned the order fro best to worst goes like this
AWD with snow tires
FWD with snow tires - tied with RWD with snow tires
AWD with all season tires
FWD with all seasons
RWD with all seasons
Everything else
Remember too that AWD only helps with going up inclines. It does not help with steering or stopping.
It is all in the tires.
My theory is as follows
If you need to be mobile at all times get AWD with snow tires. If your area gets unexpected snow (go to work and the sun is out - you go home in a blizzard) then RWD and snows would work, but you should stick to all seasons only if you can stay off the roads on those days with snow.
Even with all the electronic nannies, snow traction comes down to how well your tires are connected to the road and the vital role that tires play.
Summer tires have a harder compound with larger blocks in the tread to put as much rubber on the road as possible. The wider the better (in theory) As the temps drop the compound gets very hard and the car turns into a big hockey puck when the temps drop to 50 degrees or so.
all season tires are a compromise. The compound is softer with smaller blocks to allow for limited snow traction. Think of it as the tennis shoe of the tires.
Snow tires have a soft compound, many sipes with bits of silica to give the best grip in snow. When worn about halfway, the sipes and silica start to go away and the tires become the equivalent of all season tires. The compound stays pliable in cold weather. Narrower is better and a taller sidewall is good too.
Try walking up a snow street wearing leather soled dress shoes. Doesn't work well. Tennis shoes are a bit better but still no match for snowshoes.
Now, let's talk AWD. Let's say you have two hard leather gloves on. Will that help you get up that hill? Probably not, but putting a tennis shoe like glove on might be a bit better.
As far as snow traction is concerned the order fro best to worst goes like this
AWD with snow tires
FWD with snow tires - tied with RWD with snow tires
AWD with all season tires
FWD with all seasons
RWD with all seasons
Everything else
Remember too that AWD only helps with going up inclines. It does not help with steering or stopping.
It is all in the tires.
My theory is as follows
If you need to be mobile at all times get AWD with snow tires. If your area gets unexpected snow (go to work and the sun is out - you go home in a blizzard) then RWD and snows would work, but you should stick to all seasons only if you can stay off the roads on those days with snow.
07-13-2013, 10:54 PM
#10
Member
A RWD with snows does not compare to a FWD with snows.
If you need to be mobile at all times get AWD with snow tires. If your area gets unexpected snow (go to work and the sun is out - you go home in a blizzard) then RWD and snows would work, but you should stick to all seasons only if you can stay off the roads on those days with snow.
It's tough to run snows in Denver. We get snow from time to time, and it'll get snowpacked and icy, but the next day or three it's gone and for weeks afterward it's dry. Temps will get into the 60s or 70s, with sun blazing and heating up the roads.
Because snow is possible from early October to late April, Blizzaks with get worn down very quickly, you'll be lucky if they last a year.
07-14-2013, 10:23 AM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Many people don't understand how cars work.
Even with all the electronic nannies, snow traction comes down to how well your tires are connected to the road and the vital role that tires play.
Summer tires have a harder compound with larger blocks in the tread to put as much rubber on the road as possible. The wider the better (in theory) As the temps drop the compound gets very hard and the car turns into a big hockey puck when the temps drop to 50 degrees or so.
all season tires are a compromise. The compound is softer with smaller blocks to allow for limited snow traction. Think of it as the tennis shoe of the tires.
Snow tires have a soft compound, many sipes with bits of silica to give the best grip in snow. When worn about halfway, the sipes and silica start to go away and the tires become the equivalent of all season tires. The compound stays pliable in cold weather. Narrower is better and a taller sidewall is good too.
Try walking up a snow street wearing leather soled dress shoes. Doesn't work well. Tennis shoes are a bit better but still no match for snowshoes.
Now, let's talk AWD. Let's say you have two hard leather gloves on. Will that help you get up that hill? Probably not, but putting a tennis shoe like glove on might be a bit better.
As far as snow traction is concerned the order fro best to worst goes like this
AWD with snow tires
FWD with snow tires - tied with RWD with snow tires
AWD with all season tires
FWD with all seasons
RWD with all seasons
Everything else
Remember too that AWD only helps with going up inclines. It does not help with steering or stopping.
It is all in the tires.
My theory is as follows
If you need to be mobile at all times get AWD with snow tires. If your area gets unexpected snow (go to work and the sun is out - you go home in a blizzard) then RWD and snows would work, but you should stick to all seasons only if you can stay off the roads on those days with snow.
Even with all the electronic nannies, snow traction comes down to how well your tires are connected to the road and the vital role that tires play.
Summer tires have a harder compound with larger blocks in the tread to put as much rubber on the road as possible. The wider the better (in theory) As the temps drop the compound gets very hard and the car turns into a big hockey puck when the temps drop to 50 degrees or so.
all season tires are a compromise. The compound is softer with smaller blocks to allow for limited snow traction. Think of it as the tennis shoe of the tires.
Snow tires have a soft compound, many sipes with bits of silica to give the best grip in snow. When worn about halfway, the sipes and silica start to go away and the tires become the equivalent of all season tires. The compound stays pliable in cold weather. Narrower is better and a taller sidewall is good too.
Try walking up a snow street wearing leather soled dress shoes. Doesn't work well. Tennis shoes are a bit better but still no match for snowshoes.
Now, let's talk AWD. Let's say you have two hard leather gloves on. Will that help you get up that hill? Probably not, but putting a tennis shoe like glove on might be a bit better.
As far as snow traction is concerned the order fro best to worst goes like this
AWD with snow tires
FWD with snow tires - tied with RWD with snow tires
AWD with all season tires
FWD with all seasons
RWD with all seasons
Everything else
Remember too that AWD only helps with going up inclines. It does not help with steering or stopping.
It is all in the tires.
My theory is as follows
If you need to be mobile at all times get AWD with snow tires. If your area gets unexpected snow (go to work and the sun is out - you go home in a blizzard) then RWD and snows would work, but you should stick to all seasons only if you can stay off the roads on those days with snow.
I must disagree with your order. In snow and ice or other slippery conditions AWD with all season tires is far better than FWD or RWD with winter tires. If not then the all season tires are not really all season tires or are very poor at that.
07-14-2013, 10:35 AM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
I disagree slightly.
A RWD with snows does not compare to a FWD with snows.
This is exactly what AWD was made for. This needs AWD and high quality all seasons with good snow performance. For example, Continental DWS with lots of silicone and siping. It's not as good as a Blizzak, but it's pretty darn good.
It's tough to run snows in Denver. We get snow from time to time, and it'll get snowpacked and icy, but the next day or three it's gone and for weeks afterward it's dry. Temps will get into the 60s or 70s, with sun blazing and heating up the roads.
Because snow is possible from early October to late April, Blizzaks with get worn down very quickly, you'll be lucky if they last a year.
A RWD with snows does not compare to a FWD with snows.
This is exactly what AWD was made for. This needs AWD and high quality all seasons with good snow performance. For example, Continental DWS with lots of silicone and siping. It's not as good as a Blizzak, but it's pretty darn good.
It's tough to run snows in Denver. We get snow from time to time, and it'll get snowpacked and icy, but the next day or three it's gone and for weeks afterward it's dry. Temps will get into the 60s or 70s, with sun blazing and heating up the roads.
Because snow is possible from early October to late April, Blizzaks with get worn down very quickly, you'll be lucky if they last a year.
Because those Blizzaks wear so fast in said conditions try some good Nokian all season tires, like WRG3. Get better grip and mileage out of them. They may cost a little bit more but likely give you twice the mileage.
07-14-2013, 10:47 AM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
10 Posts
1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
I disagree slightly.
A RWD with snows does not compare to a FWD with snows.
That was a difficult call and FWD may have a slight edge.
This is exactly what AWD was made for. This needs AWD and high quality all seasons with good snow performance. For example, Continental DWS with lots of silicone and siping. It's not as good as a Blizzak, but it's pretty darn good.
It's tough to run snows in Denver. We get snow from time to time, and it'll get snowpacked and icy, but the next day or three it's gone and for weeks afterward it's dry. Temps will get into the 60s or 70s, with sun blazing and heating up the roads.
Because snow is possible from early October to late April, Blizzaks with get worn down very quickly, you'll be lucky if they last a year.
A RWD with snows does not compare to a FWD with snows.
That was a difficult call and FWD may have a slight edge.
This is exactly what AWD was made for. This needs AWD and high quality all seasons with good snow performance. For example, Continental DWS with lots of silicone and siping. It's not as good as a Blizzak, but it's pretty darn good.
It's tough to run snows in Denver. We get snow from time to time, and it'll get snowpacked and icy, but the next day or three it's gone and for weeks afterward it's dry. Temps will get into the 60s or 70s, with sun blazing and heating up the roads.
Because snow is possible from early October to late April, Blizzaks with get worn down very quickly, you'll be lucky if they last a year.
I'm thinking that steering and stopping are important when driving.
https://www.tirerack.com/videos/inde...=91&tab=winter
https://www.tirerack.com/videos/inde...=26&tab=winter
07-14-2013, 10:47 AM
#14
Senior Member
07-14-2013, 03:52 PM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, because of the odd weather patterns in Colorado you may actually run through a set of winters in 15k miles.
Sorry, but your supposition is wrong. It is all in the tires. While AWD might give you a very slight edge in some conditions with all seasons, steering and stopping are ALWAYS better with snows - regardless of driven wheels.
I'm thinking that steering and stopping are important when driving.
https://www.tirerack.com/videos/inde...=91&tab=winter
https://www.tirerack.com/videos/inde...=26&tab=winter
Sorry, but your supposition is wrong. It is all in the tires. While AWD might give you a very slight edge in some conditions with all seasons, steering and stopping are ALWAYS better with snows - regardless of driven wheels.
I'm thinking that steering and stopping are important when driving.
https://www.tirerack.com/videos/inde...=91&tab=winter
https://www.tirerack.com/videos/inde...=26&tab=winter
You are absolutely correct that stopping the car is important and it is true that it does not make much difference what drive system the car has when stopping it. But in snow and ice RWD and FWD can actually be better especially if the car has a hand operated parking brake that uses the rear brakes.
But the benefit of the AWD is in the driving behavior. It is way more stable in bad road conditions and keeps you out of trouble way better.
Driving thru slush can be a nightmare on a RWD when FWD and AWD handle it just fine and much better with true all weather tires compared to RWD on full winter tires.
But you can have your opinion opinion and I can have MINE.
07-14-2013, 04:36 PM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Which model year's cars did you test? Where they on the same brand/model/size tire? Where they both luxury or both sport?
petee, you experiences are the opposite of mine. I find winter tires make a RWD fine in all but just fallen standing snow. In the cases where there isn't enough traction, FWD and AWD, by powering the steered wheels, can pull you out of a parking space or go over a slippery section. However, with winter tires those conditions are very, very rare.
I thought Ontario required winter tires.
petee, you experiences are the opposite of mine. I find winter tires make a RWD fine in all but just fallen standing snow. In the cases where there isn't enough traction, FWD and AWD, by powering the steered wheels, can pull you out of a parking space or go over a slippery section. However, with winter tires those conditions are very, very rare.
I thought Ontario required winter tires.
Last edited by petee1997; 07-14-2013 at 04:40 PM.
07-15-2013, 11:25 AM
#17
Part of being a good driver is knowing when you have the right equipment. Some snow and road types cannot be handled by all-season tires. But sometimes all-seasons are fine in the hands of a good driver. It is not a 0-1 thing.
I'll never forget watching the SCCA championships some years ago at the Mid-Ohio racetrack. It started to snow in the middle of the race. Everybody with the exception of one guy slowed to a crawl. That one guy continued on almost like it wasn't snowing at all. He probably had the equivalent of summer tires on a race car and was flying. Mid-Ohio has lots of braking and turning with hills, no NASCAR thing. The announcers were puzzled until they learned he was an ice racing champion in Russia. Would he have benefited with winter tires? Most likely since they would have helped him go faster by raising the limits. Was he driving unsafely without winter tires? Apparently not - because he was driving within the limits of the tires he had.
He was competing against trained/experienced race car drivers who couldn't properly use the equipment they had. Good drivers, but unskilled for the task at hand, if you will. They would have been equally unskilled with winter tires, but going faster. Translated to the street, I'd rather have the unskilled going slower or, even better, stuck in a ditch out of the way! Give them slicks or something.
I hate to be stuck behind the guy in the pickup flooring the accelerator, but thankfully he is not going anywhere. Please don't tell him to get winter tires.Seriously, I get angry watching people drive in the snow. Too timid and too bold are both dangerous, especially when put together on the same road. Tires aren't going to help. Neither is using what they have correctly.
I have driven on snow and ice and never gotten stuck or been in an accident. (Fingers crossed to avoid jinxing myself.) The vast majority has been on all-seasons. I think that is because I learned to drive in a town that got really bad snow/ice but didn't have snow equipment - I had to learn to drive on untreated roads with lots of deep ruts and frozen melt. If I had gotten stuck, I would have had to call my dad, and he would have been pissed because he himself never got stuck.
AWD makes life a lot easier, the tires, eh... IMHO, where I drive (DC metro), if the difference between winters and all-seasons make that big of a difference for an average driver, that driver does not know how to drive properly for the conditions AND is going too fast for his/her skill set. It would probably mean the skilled driver is going too fast too.
I recognize there are situations where winters would/should be mandatory. I have driven on them myself. But I think this is less often than tire manufacturers would have people believe. Perhaps paradoxically, I have found them to be less useful in areas that expect lots of snow because the streets are usually cleared quickly. I would have loved to have them driving in ice/snow in areas that do not, such as Georgia in March '93. What a mess that was!
07-15-2013, 11:44 AM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
10 Posts
1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
The first statement is probably correct, and should probably even be changed to "Almost all drivers..." IMO, the second statement should be "It is all in the driver."
Part of being a good driver is knowing when you have the right equipment. Some snow and road types cannot be handled by all-season tires. But sometimes all-seasons are fine in the hands of a good driver. It is not a 0-1 thing.
I'll never forget watching the SCCA championships some years ago at the Mid-Ohio racetrack. It started to snow in the middle of the race. Everybody with the exception of one guy slowed to a crawl. That one guy continued on almost like it wasn't snowing at all. He probably had the equivalent of summer tires on a race car and was flying. Mid-Ohio has lots of braking and turning with hills, no NASCAR thing. The announcers were puzzled until they learned he was an ice racing champion in Russia. Would he have benefited with winter tires? Most likely since they would have helped him go faster by raising the limits. Was he driving unsafely without winter tires? Apparently not - because he was driving within the limits of the tires he had.
He was competing against trained/experienced race car drivers who couldn't properly use the equipment they had. Good drivers, but unskilled for the task at hand, if you will. They would have been equally unskilled with winter tires, but going faster. Translated to the street, I'd rather have the unskilled going slower or, even better, stuck in a ditch out of the way! Give them slicks or something. I hate to be stuck behind the guy in the pickup flooring the accelerator, but thankfully he is not going anywhere. Please don't tell him to get winter tires.
Seriously, I get angry watching people drive in the snow. Too timid and too bold are both dangerous, especially when put together on the same road. Tires aren't going to help. Neither is using what they have correctly.
I have driven on snow and ice and never gotten stuck or been in an accident. (Fingers crossed to avoid jinxing myself.) The vast majority has been on all-seasons. I think that is because I learned to drive in a town that got really bad snow/ice but didn't have snow equipment - I had to learn to drive on untreated roads with lots of deep ruts and frozen melt. If I had gotten stuck, I would have had to call my dad, and he would have been pissed because he himself never got stuck.
AWD makes life a lot easier, the tires, eh... IMHO, where I drive (DC metro), if the difference between winters and all-seasons make that big of a difference for an average driver, that driver does not know how to drive properly for the conditions AND is going too fast for his/her skill set. It would probably mean the skilled driver is going too fast too.
I recognize there are situations where winters would/should be mandatory. I have driven on them myself. But I think this is less often than tire manufacturers would have people believe. Perhaps paradoxically, I have found them to be less useful in areas that expect lots of snow because the streets are usually cleared quickly. I would have loved to have them driving in ice/snow in areas that do not, such as Georgia in March '93. What a mess that was!
Part of being a good driver is knowing when you have the right equipment. Some snow and road types cannot be handled by all-season tires. But sometimes all-seasons are fine in the hands of a good driver. It is not a 0-1 thing.
I'll never forget watching the SCCA championships some years ago at the Mid-Ohio racetrack. It started to snow in the middle of the race. Everybody with the exception of one guy slowed to a crawl. That one guy continued on almost like it wasn't snowing at all. He probably had the equivalent of summer tires on a race car and was flying. Mid-Ohio has lots of braking and turning with hills, no NASCAR thing. The announcers were puzzled until they learned he was an ice racing champion in Russia. Would he have benefited with winter tires? Most likely since they would have helped him go faster by raising the limits. Was he driving unsafely without winter tires? Apparently not - because he was driving within the limits of the tires he had.
He was competing against trained/experienced race car drivers who couldn't properly use the equipment they had. Good drivers, but unskilled for the task at hand, if you will. They would have been equally unskilled with winter tires, but going faster. Translated to the street, I'd rather have the unskilled going slower or, even better, stuck in a ditch out of the way! Give them slicks or something.
I hate to be stuck behind the guy in the pickup flooring the accelerator, but thankfully he is not going anywhere. Please don't tell him to get winter tires.Seriously, I get angry watching people drive in the snow. Too timid and too bold are both dangerous, especially when put together on the same road. Tires aren't going to help. Neither is using what they have correctly.
I have driven on snow and ice and never gotten stuck or been in an accident. (Fingers crossed to avoid jinxing myself.) The vast majority has been on all-seasons. I think that is because I learned to drive in a town that got really bad snow/ice but didn't have snow equipment - I had to learn to drive on untreated roads with lots of deep ruts and frozen melt. If I had gotten stuck, I would have had to call my dad, and he would have been pissed because he himself never got stuck.
AWD makes life a lot easier, the tires, eh... IMHO, where I drive (DC metro), if the difference between winters and all-seasons make that big of a difference for an average driver, that driver does not know how to drive properly for the conditions AND is going too fast for his/her skill set. It would probably mean the skilled driver is going too fast too.
I recognize there are situations where winters would/should be mandatory. I have driven on them myself. But I think this is less often than tire manufacturers would have people believe. Perhaps paradoxically, I have found them to be less useful in areas that expect lots of snow because the streets are usually cleared quickly. I would have loved to have them driving in ice/snow in areas that do not, such as Georgia in March '93. What a mess that was!
I've also always said that the best mod one can make to a car is driving school but that doesn't replace the proper equipment.
07-15-2013, 12:08 PM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Saratoga Springs, New York & Sarasota, Florida.
Posts: 3,504
Received 423 Likes
on
349 Posts
MB’s
Having homes on LI and upstate NY the winters get nuts! Snow is a huge issue and I did RWD in the snow for years and it was a nightmare! My daily driver is a C Class with 4wd and the 4Matic is Amazing! You will not want RWD for anything snow or ice related. I would personally would get the 4WD! It's worth it in many cases!
07-15-2013, 11:08 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
14 Posts
MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
Wow, that brings back memories!! We were stuck on the I75 southbound for HOURS until some fellow Ontarians dug a path between the northbound and southbound lanes that allowed us to pull a u-turn and take backroads. It didn't help that we were driving in a rented Dodge Caravan. Overall, that really sucked.
06-03-2016, 04:47 PM
#21
The first statement is probably correct, and should probably even be changed to "Almost all drivers..." IMO, the second statement should be "It is all in the driver."
Part of being a good driver is knowing when you have the right equipment. Some snow and road types cannot be handled by all-season tires. But sometimes all-seasons are fine in the hands of a good driver. It is not a 0-1 thing.
I'll never forget watching the SCCA championships some years ago at the Mid-Ohio racetrack. It started to snow in the middle of the race. Everybody with the exception of one guy slowed to a crawl. That one guy continued on almost like it wasn't snowing at all. He probably had the equivalent of summer tires on a race car and was flying. Mid-Ohio has lots of braking and turning with hills, no NASCAR thing. The announcers were puzzled until they learned he was an ice racing champion in Russia. Would he have benefited with winter tires? Most likely since they would have helped him go faster by raising the limits. Was he driving unsafely without winter tires? Apparently not - because he was driving within the limits of the tires he had.
He was competing against trained/experienced race car drivers who couldn't properly use the equipment they had. Good drivers, but unskilled for the task at hand, if you will. They would have been equally unskilled with winter tires, but going faster. Translated to the street, I'd rather have the unskilled going slower or, even better, stuck in a ditch out of the way! Give them slicks or something. I hate to be stuck behind the guy in the pickup flooring the accelerator, but thankfully he is not going anywhere. Please don't tell him to get winter tires.
Seriously, I get angry watching people drive in the snow. Too timid and too bold are both dangerous, especially when put together on the same road. Tires aren't going to help. Neither is using what they have correctly.
I have driven on snow and ice and never gotten stuck or been in an accident. (Fingers crossed to avoid jinxing myself.) The vast majority has been on all-seasons. I think that is because I learned to drive in a town that got really bad snow/ice but didn't have snow equipment - I had to learn to drive on untreated roads with lots of deep ruts and frozen melt. If I had gotten stuck, I would have had to call my dad, and he would have been pissed because he himself never got stuck.
AWD makes life a lot easier, the tires, eh... IMHO, where I drive (DC metro), if the difference between winters and all-seasons make that big of a difference for an average driver, that driver does not know how to drive properly for the conditions AND is going too fast for his/her skill set. It would probably mean the skilled driver is going too fast too.
I recognize there are situations where winters would/should be mandatory. I have driven on them myself. But I think this is less often than tire manufacturers would have people believe. Perhaps paradoxically, I have found them to be less useful in areas that expect lots of snow because the streets are usually cleared quickly. I would have loved to have them driving in ice/snow in areas that do not, such as Georgia in March '93. What a mess that was!
Part of being a good driver is knowing when you have the right equipment. Some snow and road types cannot be handled by all-season tires. But sometimes all-seasons are fine in the hands of a good driver. It is not a 0-1 thing.
I'll never forget watching the SCCA championships some years ago at the Mid-Ohio racetrack. It started to snow in the middle of the race. Everybody with the exception of one guy slowed to a crawl. That one guy continued on almost like it wasn't snowing at all. He probably had the equivalent of summer tires on a race car and was flying. Mid-Ohio has lots of braking and turning with hills, no NASCAR thing. The announcers were puzzled until they learned he was an ice racing champion in Russia. Would he have benefited with winter tires? Most likely since they would have helped him go faster by raising the limits. Was he driving unsafely without winter tires? Apparently not - because he was driving within the limits of the tires he had.
He was competing against trained/experienced race car drivers who couldn't properly use the equipment they had. Good drivers, but unskilled for the task at hand, if you will. They would have been equally unskilled with winter tires, but going faster. Translated to the street, I'd rather have the unskilled going slower or, even better, stuck in a ditch out of the way! Give them slicks or something.
I hate to be stuck behind the guy in the pickup flooring the accelerator, but thankfully he is not going anywhere. Please don't tell him to get winter tires.Seriously, I get angry watching people drive in the snow. Too timid and too bold are both dangerous, especially when put together on the same road. Tires aren't going to help. Neither is using what they have correctly.
I have driven on snow and ice and never gotten stuck or been in an accident. (Fingers crossed to avoid jinxing myself.) The vast majority has been on all-seasons. I think that is because I learned to drive in a town that got really bad snow/ice but didn't have snow equipment - I had to learn to drive on untreated roads with lots of deep ruts and frozen melt. If I had gotten stuck, I would have had to call my dad, and he would have been pissed because he himself never got stuck.
AWD makes life a lot easier, the tires, eh... IMHO, where I drive (DC metro), if the difference between winters and all-seasons make that big of a difference for an average driver, that driver does not know how to drive properly for the conditions AND is going too fast for his/her skill set. It would probably mean the skilled driver is going too fast too.
I recognize there are situations where winters would/should be mandatory. I have driven on them myself. But I think this is less often than tire manufacturers would have people believe. Perhaps paradoxically, I have found them to be less useful in areas that expect lots of snow because the streets are usually cleared quickly. I would have loved to have them driving in ice/snow in areas that do not, such as Georgia in March '93. What a mess that was!
06-03-2016, 10:02 PM
#22
Junior Member
06-06-2016, 10:36 AM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
The DC metro area is kind of border line snow belt. If you do not need to get to work on time on heavy snow days, you might be able to get by with RWD and all season tires. Other than that, a RWD with snow tires or AWD will certainly help with traction in the snow.
06-06-2016, 12:46 PM
#24
Member
I might be the perfect person to answer this. Had a 2013 4 matic for 18 months. traded it for a 14 RWD I have had for about a month. Things I notice
BETTER MPG with the RWD
less road noise and quieter ride in general
I feel it rides better and more comfortable
Miss the AWD in the rain, but RWD is fine, just can drive like I would normally
I feel like the tire wear is greater in the AWD.
I would say if you live somewhere with lots of snow, the awd is worth it. But overall I don't think I would go awd again if I had the choice
As far as DC metro area, I don't think you NEED it, but would be nice to have
BETTER MPG with the RWD
less road noise and quieter ride in general
I feel it rides better and more comfortable
Miss the AWD in the rain, but RWD is fine, just can drive like I would normally
I feel like the tire wear is greater in the AWD.
I would say if you live somewhere with lots of snow, the awd is worth it. But overall I don't think I would go awd again if I had the choice
As far as DC metro area, I don't think you NEED it, but would be nice to have
06-06-2016, 01:37 PM
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
I might be the perfect person to answer this. Had a 2013 4 matic for 18 months. traded it for a 14 RWD I have had for about a month. Things I notice
BETTER MPG with the RWD
less road noise and quieter ride in general
I feel it rides better and more comfortable
Miss the AWD in the rain, but RWD is fine, just can drive like I would normally
I feel like the tire wear is greater in the AWD.
I would say if you live somewhere with lots of snow, the awd is worth it. But overall I don't think I would go awd again if I had the choice
As far as DC metro area, I don't think you NEED it, but would be nice to have
BETTER MPG with the RWD
less road noise and quieter ride in general
I feel it rides better and more comfortable
Miss the AWD in the rain, but RWD is fine, just can drive like I would normally
I feel like the tire wear is greater in the AWD.
I would say if you live somewhere with lots of snow, the awd is worth it. But overall I don't think I would go awd again if I had the choice
As far as DC metro area, I don't think you NEED it, but would be nice to have
Living in Houston, Texas, why on earth would you buy an AWD sedan?
