instantfob

T.H.Carrera

is K-A now banned from this section too ????

K-A

I know it's hard for fanboys to hear the truth, so censorship becomes your only argument. I don't care one way or another whether they did or didn't like the car, I've driven plenty so I know exactly how good it is. Fact is the suspension dynamics need major help and I've been saying this since I had mine (READ up before you verbally attack: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ugh-roads.html). Magazine clearly revealed that as well. The E is the harshest car (over *rough roads) in its class which is where the problem lies. BMW might use run flats but the car is still smoother and handles better which is my exact argument. In a realm of fanboy wars I might be saying this to **** people off, in real life I'm saying this on the subject at hand, disregarding that this is Mercedes forum. If I were you guys I would pound the table too and not let Mercedes get away with that.

If you were to cease from being my obsessive stalker hurling ad hominem remarks towards everything I say like some crazy Mercedes defender then you would realize everything I've said here I said back in 2010 in 2011 in 2012. You'd also realize I wasn't the first one who brought up the 5 series, somebody else brought that into conversation so go barking up their tree.. unless you want me to lie and pretend the truth is the other way around simply because this is a Mercedes forum.

What I find odd is how those like you or Petee come into threads making sweeping statements or generalizations, and then huff and puff if one dares actually dissect said statements and provide an objective/personal experience based argument of it. Care to discuss the topic or are you just hoping that because this is a Mercedes board we mustn't speak how we really feel if it doesn't push the good word of "Da Benz". If you didn't want to engage in a conversation about it, why bring up the 5 Series especially when you well know one of this forums most active members actually has one? Because where I'm from that's called "troll baiting". And of course, Petee acted the trusty wingman.

As for your take on the 5 Series, they're every bit as valid as mine, that's why it's a "discussion". There's really no right or wrong, I don't get how some people don't get that. FYI the electric steering was vastly improved for 2013 models and the "drift to right" issue is long gone, no new 5's suffer from it. And no, me simply saying that doesn't mean I'm shoving the 5-Series down anyones throat! Lol.

K-A

Once again you nailed it. BMW forums are full of kicking and screaming purists who hate the isolation of the new cars and loss of sporty crown. MB forums if with as many passionates involved should be full of kickers and screamers of MBs loss of comfort crown.

electricbro

Yes the review opinion is correct - I have a 2011 E350 Bluetec sport trim, the ride is very rough for a sedan. Uncomfortable, in my opinion.

K-A

Here is the original post of mine from that thread I linked to above. It is from 4/18/2011 when I had my FIRST W212, a 2010, 2 months before I traded it for a 2011 which I had the SAME suspension impressions on after the initial break in period (it had even more rattles). So Petee can put away that superstition to coddle his comfort zone that one MUST have a bias in order to dare have negative impressions from the holy Star:

The thread got well over 200 replies with similar sentiments. Clearly there's a problem here (just read above for other members' impressions as well).

petee1997

Just maybe you are starting to get it, K-A. You dislike criticism. Duh!!! You have criticized MB cars since you got your BMW. You have a right to do that. We now know what you think but do we have to hear it over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Isn't that boring? More of us should harass you until you cease and desist. The W222 forum is not putting up with your BS.

There is something seriously wrong with someone with over 9000 posts on just one forum. You need to find a girlfriend and get a life.

K-A

It's a sad state of one to resort to criticizing someone especially probably more than half their age because of the subject of cars. I already proved your "agenda conspiracy" wrong so with no argument left, you attack "my" character. I have more than you know my friend, and I can still generate over 9,000 posts on one single forum. Just 'cause you can't, doesn't mean I can't.

Maybe one day you can discuss CARS and not the people behind opinions. This forum isn't very busy and repetition isn't an issue when it comes to reappearing subjects.

And it's funny you keep saying "they don't like it over here/there" as if you're the little playground bully who can't fight his own fights, so tries egging others on to do your dirty work for you. I've been a part of the W222 forum conversations just fine, we've been talking W222, some love it, some like it, some may not, that's the nature of a forum (you come there to talk about me, lol).

Get over it. Talk cars. You think the E's suspension is smooth over rough patches? Then I disagree.

instantfob

Since I can't combine the best from both worlds, I ended up having both in my garage

K-A

And this post wins the thread.

alsyli

But w/ the active hybrid! For shame. =( and Haven't looked at the specs, but I imagine the added weight would help ride but not handling.

Do wish that one of the german makes would import a diesel hybrid, but I realize that only like 10 people would buy one.... Or a diesel C-class wagon? Yes, I know, that's total fantasy, as well. But one can dream.... =)

Can I at least look forward to a stitched MB-tex dash on the next C- and E-class? I'm assuming that since the CLA now has one as an option that it's a done deal.

instantfob

/\ I am a sucker for new technology toys.... To me it's a 535i with E-Boost and discounted insurance because it's a "hybrid" just like the E400 hybrid.

I wish I can fit into a C-class since the dealers are giving them away at 320 bucks a month, but I am ready to try the sport wagon since it's growing on me.

Picture taken at Keyes European LLC

K-A

Cut off the IMO incoherently soft and doughy front and that is seriously one of the hottest Wagons ever, maybe the only "hot" Wagon I've ever seen. The side view (everything from the front door and back) looks stunning.

E Classy

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CEB

Not everyone agrees with posts but to go so far as to say that K-A is a shill for BMW is absurd.

E Classy

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T.H.Carrera

Having had both the f10 and w212 I can validate K-A's points about the suspension, harshness etc. The suspension on w212 sport, unless driven on silky smooth tarmac is pretty uselss as it does not provide any sporty capabilities yest transfer more bone jarring hits to the body compared to other sport competitors like f10.

Yes he has been a little too excited about his f10, but who is not when they first get a new vehicle?

Beltfed

Well, one thing is for sure....no way the sport suspension in the E is any more harsh than the suspension in the M56 I have.

Personally, its doesn't bother me.

Though, going with airmatic in the E550, price is reasonable enough to add it.

instantfob

I am fine with having Frequency Selective Damping (AGILITY CONTROL) dampers in the sport trim. It's good enough to take it on spirited drives and comfortable on smooth roads. It's a lot cheaper than using expensive AirMatic and ABC system. However the roads of Los Angeles are so pitted that only Citroen DS can make it comfortable.

K-A

Lol seriously. That's a first. I wish BMW paid me

If one looks at what pretty much everyone says about the E Sports harsh suspension dynamics and why I use the F10 as a comparison, I'm not trying to "sell" the BMW, I'm merely qualifying how I come to the conclusion of the E's suspension doing IMO nothing great when put to any kind of challenge VS a car who's suspension/chassis is otherwise, such as what T.H also pointed out and felt just above.

So everyone realizes, the conversation here as far as I'm oncerned is specifically about suspension/chassis dynamics, not "which car is better".

E Classy

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mbuster25

K-A, just wondering when you had a 212 if the E sport was too harsh for you why didn't you choose the Luxury model?

alsyli

I can't speak for K-A, but unless you feel like ordering a car (and I was in a rush to get rid of my Accord that was falling apart), good luck finding a Luxury spec car (at least for W204s) in LA....

K-A

Yeah basically what Alsyli said. It's not only insanely hard to find a Luxury Package but I also preferred the Sport Package styling. I also wanted tighter/better handling but realized after a while that the Sport suspension basically let me down (hence the above excerpt from the thread I started a couple of years ago on the subject).

With the facelifts Luxury and Sport models looking so different now and the Luxury having the Luxury grille exclusively on it, I actually might have selected one this time around, though things like ride height and smaller wheels would bug me.

All I ask is to have my cake and eat it too (sporty stance, relatively-larger-ish wheels, sports body cladding on an elegant/understated Luxury Car, smooth ride over all surfaces and great handling).

If I had my way, M-B would stop giving out their Sport package for free which is what has made it the common/ubiquitous/"generic" look for the car (while the Luxury model is more rare than a Ferrari these days). They'd charge $3-$4K for it like they used to, call it the "AMG Sport Package" again, which the "AMG" part they removed when they made it less intensive and free (I feel that they realized with the word "AMG" before it, it had to perform a certain way, and they didn't want to do that, therefore dropped the moniker from the package), and really made it a "SPORT" package, i.e it at least would be a sharp handler to go with the harsher ride. Or due to hypothetically-now charging for it, maybe could R&D the suspension more to be as smooth as it is over straight roads over rough roads as well whilst keeping its current floaty-handling (I have no problem with an E Class having floaty handling as it's an E CLASS, it's meant to be smooth, soft and floaty-ish, however if it's gonna have such floaty handling, it can't have a harsh suspension as well). I'd love for it to be truly sporty or if not, then the sporty styling without sporty ride is fine and dandy as long as the "sport" suspension doesn't sacrifice so much ride comfort.

My point is that it's gotta be good at something, right now IMO the suspension/chassis is good at nothing other than very smooth and straight surfaces where it is superb. My sentiments in this regard haven't changed one bit since I got a BMW. Everything I've said here is verbatim what I said while I had my W212's, with proof posted and linked above. I always said the *only* think I *hated* about my E's was the ride quality (aside from very smooth and straight roads) and suspension dynamics.

That's my take on it.

BenzE350

Interesting point that I have thought a lot about in the past. Everyone knows that Mercedes has been trying to attract younger buyers and the no cost AMG type sport option has been a big part of their strategy. I found some interesting articles from Shaikh J Ahmad on The Truth About Cars - Suspension Truth #2: Sport Suspension.

I believe (just as I’m writing this) that car makers know they have very little time to close a sale, like a first impression. If they can’t get your attention to begin with, they won’t capture it with pretty brochures or slick commercial spots. Your test drive experience is what will likely sell a particular package.

The author maintains the position that manufactures design the Illusion of Performance (IoP) into their sport suspensions. And this IoP that is designed to convince buyers that their car is sporty, has unwanted handling and comfort consequences. The IoP provides the body with the sensation of activity - and the design of a damper with sharp edges - the body senses acceleration not velocity.

I want to make it very clear that 99% of all complaints of poor ride have to do with jacking down via excess rebound damping, potentially combined with frequent engagement of the front bump stops which gets worse due to excess rebound/jacking down.


I encourage everyone to read the article and watch the 2 videos (especially the second). Let me know what you think - but be prepared for concepts like 3-axis accelerometer results and shock dyno charts.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...f-performance/