C&D test of the E350 4matic
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 466
Likes: 1
E350
I realize it's a bit technical - but looking for some comments...
Interesting point that I have thought a lot about in the past. Everyone knows that Mercedes has been trying to attract younger buyers and the no cost AMG type sport option has been a big part of their strategy. I found some interesting articles from Shaikh J Ahmad on The Truth About Cars - Suspension Truth #2: Sport Suspension.
I believe (just as I’m writing this) that car makers know they have very little time to close a sale, like a first impression. If they can’t get your attention to begin with, they won’t capture it with pretty brochures or slick commercial spots. Your test drive experience is what will likely sell a particular package.
The author maintains the position that manufactures design the Illusion of Performance (IoP) into their sport suspensions. And this IoP that is designed to convince buyers that their car is sporty, has unwanted handling and comfort consequences. The IoP provides the body with the sensation of activity - and the design of a damper with sharp edges - the body senses acceleration not velocity.
I want to make it very clear that 99% of all complaints of poor ride have to do with jacking down via excess rebound damping, potentially combined with frequent engagement of the front bump stops which gets worse due to excess rebound/jacking down.
I encourage everyone to read the article and watch the 2 videos (especially the second). Let me know what you think - but be prepared for concepts like 3-axis accelerometer results and shock dyno charts.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...f-performance/
I believe (just as I’m writing this) that car makers know they have very little time to close a sale, like a first impression. If they can’t get your attention to begin with, they won’t capture it with pretty brochures or slick commercial spots. Your test drive experience is what will likely sell a particular package.
The author maintains the position that manufactures design the Illusion of Performance (IoP) into their sport suspensions. And this IoP that is designed to convince buyers that their car is sporty, has unwanted handling and comfort consequences. The IoP provides the body with the sensation of activity - and the design of a damper with sharp edges - the body senses acceleration not velocity.
I want to make it very clear that 99% of all complaints of poor ride have to do with jacking down via excess rebound damping, potentially combined with frequent engagement of the front bump stops which gets worse due to excess rebound/jacking down.
I encourage everyone to read the article and watch the 2 videos (especially the second). Let me know what you think - but be prepared for concepts like 3-axis accelerometer results and shock dyno charts.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...f-performance/
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 174
Likes: 2
2012 e350
i felt the same way as ka, the luxury models actually stay unsold longer than the sport models and they were typically cheaper than similar sport models when i was shopping for my cpo, but the slightly higher ride height, and imo less attractive and smaller wheels turned me onto the harsher sport models.
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 217
Likes: 27
From: Clear Lake Shores, Texas
2026 AMG CLE 53, 2026 BMW X5, 1972 Corvette
Ride
Thank you.
Last edited by dan1495; Jul 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I'm so tired of listening to this crap. If you have an E Class and don't like the ride, get rid of it and quit complaining. If you used to have an E Class and didn't like the ride and got rid of it, quit complaining. Prior to my my E550 I had a 2008 BMW 550 that was the biggest POS I have ever owned. I sold it, quit complaining about it and most importantly didn't hang out on the BMW forum continuing to complain about it until the end of time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I agree, the E60 5-Series sucked inside and out, that's why I skipped that generation for an E Class.
Many ex-BMW owners hang around the forums to complain. Most people don't mind it, as long as it's constructive. That's what passionate enthusiasts do. Not everyone goes on forums to stroke their ego's in respect to their choices, many are objective and there for impartial information as well.
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 216
Likes: 3
From: South East
2017 CLS550, 2016 HD Roadglide (120ST), 1972 Super Beetle
Just me...if I had a bad experience, or moved on from a product, activity, or interest, and didn't have good things to say, other than cursory, strategically place compliments, when required to justify a rash of negativity, I would move on. It's just really is in bad taste (and socially unacceptable) to hang around pissing in the cornflakes of those who own and continue follow the product and enjoy conversing with others of the like.
There's a lot a inherent mean-spiritedness
associated with hanging around to bash what you are no longer happy with or a part of. Yes, yes, I know...it's objective...
Just my opinion. I'm no psychologist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express about ten years ago.
There's a lot a inherent mean-spiritedness
associated with hanging around to bash what you are no longer happy with or a part of. Yes, yes, I know...it's objective... Just my opinion. I'm no psychologist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express about ten years ago.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Considering I'm one of many complaining on the subject at hand, I'm flattered that so many single out my posts. I guess I my opinions get too far through for my own good? 
There's nothing mean-spirited about not allowing a company to rest on their laurels and diminish the main reason people want them to begin with. If my impressions on suspension dynamics changed since I left the brand then that would be one thing, but they haven't as they've been consistent since I had my first E.
M-B has been given lots of slack by customers, which has resulted in going from 1st to 3rd in rapid timing in worldwide Luxury Car sales, about-facing design languages so rapidly that people now perceive facelifts to be all-new models (see "W213" that everybody is calling the facelifted E), etc. If no one speaks up about these things then nothing gets done. There's a difference between reckless and constructive criticism. If anyone here thinks my criticisms are reckless then I'd say "grow up" and you might have a complex. This is child's play compared to what you see on other forums when enthusiasts don't like the direction their "beloved" brand is taking. Just go to the F30 3 Series forums and see the constant E90 purists kicking and screaming.
There's nothing mean-spirited about not allowing a company to rest on their laurels and diminish the main reason people want them to begin with. If my impressions on suspension dynamics changed since I left the brand then that would be one thing, but they haven't as they've been consistent since I had my first E.
M-B has been given lots of slack by customers, which has resulted in going from 1st to 3rd in rapid timing in worldwide Luxury Car sales, about-facing design languages so rapidly that people now perceive facelifts to be all-new models (see "W213" that everybody is calling the facelifted E), etc. If no one speaks up about these things then nothing gets done. There's a difference between reckless and constructive criticism. If anyone here thinks my criticisms are reckless then I'd say "grow up" and you might have a complex. This is child's play compared to what you see on other forums when enthusiasts don't like the direction their "beloved" brand is taking. Just go to the F30 3 Series forums and see the constant E90 purists kicking and screaming.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 38
Likes: 2
From: Chargin Falls Ohio
2014 E 350 SPORT
Because where I'm from that's called "troll baiting". And of course, Petee acted the trusty wingman.
As for your take on the 5 Series, they're every bit as valid as mine, that's why it's a "discussion". There's really no right or wrong, I don't get how some people don't get that. FYI the electric steering was vastly improved for 2013 models and the "drift to right" issue is long gone, no new 5's suffer from it. And no, me simply saying that doesn't mean I'm shoving the 5-Series down anyones throat! Lol.
I feel obligated to respond and correct your post.
I have been on the road with Steely Dan during the first leg of there tour as Walter Becker plays my amps. I don't say this to bring attention to myself K-A but to inform you that members of this forum do have life's , and don't fill our days with raising our post count. On the side, if Steely Dan comes close to your town make it a point to see them, musical genius and top musicians
sharing the stage.
OK as for the FIX of the VERY POOR steering on the 5 , no it has not been changed on the 2013 models. There is talk of CORRECTING it in the 2014 LCI model, but I haven't read much about it as of late. Also the drift to right issue is still apparent and mostly found on the 535Xi models.
K-A I have been driving and owning BMW's since before you were born, love the brand but I have lately seen a change for the worse in their cars.
I know you are a Fanboy for BMW , with your want to be M5, but you should have spent the extra 30K and got the real thing, not a M5 body kit.
You say were you come from I'm a "troll baiter".
Well from were I come from your a Bull****ter.
I know what this post will bring as you will need to insult and defend your self
but the truth need to known, and if not questioned will be believed as fact.
DR.Z
Last edited by drz; Jul 27, 2013 at 09:47 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I feel obligated to respond and correct your post.
I have been on the road with Steely Dan during the first leg of there tour as Walter Becker plays my amps. I don't say this to bring attention to myself K-A but to inform you that members of this forum do have life's , and don't fill our days with raising our post count. On the side if Steely Dan comes close to your town make it a point to see them, musical genius and top musicians
sharing the stage.
OK as for the FIX of the VERY POOR steering on the 5 , no it has not been changed on the 2013 models. There is talk of CORRECTING it in the 2014 LCI model, but I haven't read much about it as of late. Also the drift to right issue is still apparent and mostly found on the 535Xi models.
K-A I have been driving and owning BMW's since before you were born, love the brand but I have lately seen a change for the worse in there cars.
I know you are a Fanboy for BMW , with your want to be M5, but you should have spent the extra 30K and got the real thing, not a M5 body kit.
You say were you come from I'm a "troll baiter".
Well from were I come from your a Bull****ter.
I know what this post will bring as you will need to insult and defend your self
but the truth need to known, and if not questioned will be believed as fact.
DR.Z
I have been on the road with Steely Dan during the first leg of there tour as Walter Becker plays my amps. I don't say this to bring attention to myself K-A but to inform you that members of this forum do have life's , and don't fill our days with raising our post count. On the side if Steely Dan comes close to your town make it a point to see them, musical genius and top musicians
sharing the stage.
OK as for the FIX of the VERY POOR steering on the 5 , no it has not been changed on the 2013 models. There is talk of CORRECTING it in the 2014 LCI model, but I haven't read much about it as of late. Also the drift to right issue is still apparent and mostly found on the 535Xi models.
K-A I have been driving and owning BMW's since before you were born, love the brand but I have lately seen a change for the worse in there cars.
I know you are a Fanboy for BMW , with your want to be M5, but you should have spent the extra 30K and got the real thing, not a M5 body kit.
You say were you come from I'm a "troll baiter".
Well from were I come from your a Bull****ter.
I know what this post will bring as you will need to insult and defend your self
but the truth need to known, and if not questioned will be believed as fact.
DR.Z
You clearly don't know much about the new 5-Series, as the steering has been improved each year with 2011's being a relatively broken product. Many people who *actually have* had 2011/2012 models who didn't like the steering have reported nice improvements on the 2013. The key is to get the model with the mechanical M suspension, as it changes a lot.
EDIT: Maybe you guys should go and scoff at every other member here who's called the W212 Sport suspension lousy. There are plenty of them. No need to keep flattering me by taking what I say so deep to heart.
Last edited by K-A; Jul 27, 2013 at 09:50 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Another interesting observation is that those who are so verklempt at how closely (obsessively) their following my every word, thus singling out things I say that even often echo what others also say, don't seem to realize I barely even post here. The only reason it would even appear that I do is because this forum has turned into a bore-zone compared to the activity of at least challenging, more colorful conversations it used to house.
A quick scan of the first page on this forum and I'm not active in the vast majority of conversations. So why so uppity when I provide something that challenges how you feel? Maybe because of the fact that 3/4's of this forums posts are becoming either vendor posts, and/or "wheels" related posts, etc (which is something as a "new" model just launched and usually when that happens you see more activity relating to debates about it, initial ownership, etc.). So one person who says something you don't like to hear in maybe a handful of threads can appear too "loud" for you? Maybe so.
A quick scan of the first page on this forum and I'm not active in the vast majority of conversations. So why so uppity when I provide something that challenges how you feel? Maybe because of the fact that 3/4's of this forums posts are becoming either vendor posts, and/or "wheels" related posts, etc (which is something as a "new" model just launched and usually when that happens you see more activity relating to debates about it, initial ownership, etc.). So one person who says something you don't like to hear in maybe a handful of threads can appear too "loud" for you? Maybe so.
Last edited by K-A; Jul 27, 2013 at 10:14 AM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles
2012 C250 Sport
Uh, to get the thread back on topic (sort of.... instead of the silly personal attacks that are coming from multiple parties)....
I only skimmed parts of the article (actually, mainly just the ones you quoted), but is the article saying the opposite of this?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...port_update_7/
I'm not at all mechanically inclined when it comes to cars, unfortunately, but I do think that the bounce UP (when hitting a speed bump) seems to be the bigger problem in my car (which I think would be consistent w/ what the MT author is saying).
Perhaps an actual engineer could comment?
I only skimmed parts of the article (actually, mainly just the ones you quoted), but is the article saying the opposite of this?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...port_update_7/
I'm not at all mechanically inclined when it comes to cars, unfortunately, but I do think that the bounce UP (when hitting a speed bump) seems to be the bigger problem in my car (which I think would be consistent w/ what the MT author is saying).
Perhaps an actual engineer could comment?
