phalen302

Yep both brands are trying really hard to gain new sales. Both brands are close to each other (in terms of price, performance, discounts, package etc...) but the characteristics of their cars are changing. F10 is based on F01 - a mini version but bloated. On the other hand W212 is its stand alone platform. BMW is trying to capture the MB customer and vice versa. W212 feels smaller compared to F10 (interior space, exterior etc...).

As for the 535 vs 350 they are almost equal in mind expect little edge towards 535. MB does not have anything between 350 and 550 vs. BMW 528, 535 and 550.

BMW don't want to lose a sale to any other competitor, so they are equally aggressive. The dealers in my area are hungry and they will match or beat any one, will go low no matter what year or model it is (even on F10 M5s). Same goes for for MB.

K-A

Actually the E chassis is technically based off of the C chassis, as it was M-B's first "foot in the water" attempt at platform sharing.

Yes both are indeed very aggressive. But in my experiences the W212 took it to another level as I've never seen a car get price slashed so dramatically (the C as well). I got about 15-18% off of my E350 in mid 2011 with barely any sweat and with little incentives at the time, while since then the deals have gotten even much more aggressive on the W212's. BMW would never let a 535i go for 18+% off or near that really, especially not commonplace such as like the E Class, not even on leftover models.

phalen302

True MB is slightly more aggressive but BMW is not far behind. But I see that changing very soon (BMW trying extremely hard to maintain their sales/crown) and it wont be long before they flip places.

The direction of BMW is not right in my mind; like I said the new BMWs can't relate to the heritage, performance, handling, feel of the old BMWs. It become a luxury cruiser. I was shocked when I first heard that F10 M5 would route (fake) the engine sound and play it via speakers.

K-A

I agree on all points except BMW's newfound attempt at "Out-Benzing Benz" worked to gain them the most market share on the 5 from the E than ever before, and sucked in guys like me who found some previous BMW's too "hard" compared to previous MB rivals. You can equip an F10 5er to drive like a pure-BMW in many respects, as long as you have the mechanical M suspension (2013+ only) and Sport Auto trans whilst it'll still be keeping with that newfound super smooth/solid/isolating ride that previous BMW's could never attain in such a way (which is a byproduct of that weight due to it truly being a smaller 7 Series now with a chassis over-engineered to also be the bones of a Rolls Royce Ghost which requires such a super heavy and stiff chassis to support its behemoth weight i.e needing to be incredibly quiet and smooth).

It is polarizing though in respect to BMW culture, many hate the new approach and others found it a reason to finally flock to the brand.

phalen302

What boogles my mind is that BMW is know for performance and ultimate driving experience. But if they are faking the sound in their new M5; I wonder what else they are preaching re sports models.

K-A

I do hate that about the M5. Again though it's due to that insanely stiff, over-engineered in the Luxury aspect chassis that makes it so next-level in BMW history terms quiet and smooth/comfortable, which to many is more than a worthy tradeoff. The M5's F10 chassis is literally too isolating which to an MB person like myself is actually appealing in its own ways.

alsyli

Well, there's the whole twin-turbo thing....

K-A

JUST got an email for a FACELIFT 2014 W212 for $459 a month! LOL can't make this stuff up folks. Unreal how cheap they'll let these cars go for.\

EDIT: Here's the ad. Forget finding even a Demo leftover 2013 535i ever matching this price (you won't, and you certainly will never see a 2014 535i getting near such a discounted low price), but I know of people paying comparable prices on 328i's. Someone should jump on it, or wait until closer to the end of the year when you can get that payment with probably little to no upfront drive-off:

PGT

brought mine home tonight. '14 E550 with Pano, LED's, Keyless Go, HK, trunk spoiler, P1 and prolly some stuff I forgot. $64k off a $71500 sticker.

PGT

we love our F30 328i M Sport in Estoril Blue. It ain't slow or bloated but I generally agree about the larger cars. I tried to buy a 535i last summer and didn't like it better than the E550 Coupe I would have traded on it.

K-A

Funny thing is that BMW purists HATE the F30 3 as well and criticize it for many "softened up" reasons.

Purists will find lots to dislike about all new Bimmers yet I think they've nailed the essence of the 3 and 5 segments (and their blatant overtaking of market share since the new 5 reflect that). Like the F30, you have to get the 5 in the right options to cater it to your desires, i.e if you haven't driven a new 5er on the M suspension then you truly haven't felt its true capabilities and virtues.

This is both a blessing and curse for BMW as in their quest to "please everybody all at once" they run the risk of people driving the wrong-for-them setups and then complaining about the drives when there are tailored options that may have saved that from happening.

MB on the other hand IMO doesn't have the same type of culture of judgement and expectation from its purists, it's more-so intended as a "one size fits all" and they have an easier vision as to how to evolve their drives to keep everyone happy, and that allows for less polarizing impressions from the buying faithful, but much less tailoring.

PGT

agreed on that. The F30 has four flavors and they REALLY make the car quite different visually and performance-wise. Looking at and driving an M-Sport vs. a Luxury, they're very different cars. I like that you can build a fairly hardcore driver's car without having to step up to the uber-expensive vehicles. Yes, I said driver's car in the same thought as F30. It might not be as engaging as previous models but its 1000% more driver oriented than a comparable C-Class. Ours is suffciently sporty feeling that I don't care to drive it everyday....I'm 6'1" and its a fairly claustrophobic place to be for me.

K-A

Definitely agreed. I love the F30 3, especially in M Sport. Only thing I don't like is the interior which IMO is some steps back, but doesn't really diminish the entire package.

threeMBs

PGT, that's a fantastic deal - 10% off -on a '14 E550.

K-A, lets keep BMW out of this discussion, please. This specific topic is only related to MB. You brought BMW into it once...OK. You're talking BMW on MB board in the topic that has nothing to do with it in every post. You want to talk BMW on MB boards (I was always under impression that BMW boards were livelier), fine. But please, lets at least keep it in posts relevant to bringing other brands into.

hyperion667

+1

hyperion667

CEB

What a deal. This even beats K-A's adverts.

To only pay $7500 for a new car that stickered for $71500 is almost a 90% savings

K-A

I actually wasn't the one who brought BMW into the convo. I apologize but at the same time I can't be expected to not continue a conversation regarding them when it's become a topic at hand.

CEB:

edspider

When you say you got 10% off list or whatever deal you got, are you speaking about buying a car in the dealer's inventory? I want more options than dealers will buy for their inventory so I always have to have them do a change order on a car before it builds. Will dealers give a lesser discount in that scenario or should it not matter?

I keep hearing these 7-10% off MSRP for 2104 and I don't see it. I have 3 dealers within 30 miles of me.

ghstudio

I've been offered a 2014 e550 ordered to my specs for 10% off (florida). That's about 50 miles from my home. Local dealer will give 5% off on same car and claims he's giving the car away...and want's to add nitrogen tires, protection package, etc....you get the idea .

threeMBs

ghstudio, do you mind sharing the name of that FL dealer ready to sell E550 at 10% off (here or in PM)?

My local FL dealer is offering the same 5%. The closest I could get to 10% was 9% on in-stock E350 (not E550) and that dealer is 70 miles away (which is not a big deal of course).

PGT

perhaps "down" would have been clearer than "off". It wasn't $64k off list, I meant it as relative value. But, derp away.

AC E350

The discount I got from my dealer was pretty straight forward.
$9000 off MSRP on all 2014 E350 on the lot, just take your pick.
My car's MSRP is $61,140 and I paid $52,140 which is about 15% off.
I also got them to throw in all season mats, window tinting and 1st service free.

jhb49

AC E350 Did you lease or buy?

edspider

Buy