E400 'vs' E500/550
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
E400 'vs' E500/550
Recently tried to order a new E500 sedan here in Australia but were advised by our dealer to hold off for a little while as the facelift was coming, which has now been here for a while. Much to our disappointment they dropped the E500 from the range (along with the E350) and replaced it with the E400. Bad advice from the dealer, they should have already known this being so close to the facelift becoming available.
Fair enough dropping the E350, but dropping the E500 means us V8 lovers now have to spend another $80-90k to get into an E63, which are priced around $265k here depending on your options. The E350 used to sit around $130k, and the E500 around $180k. The E400 now sits at around $140k so there's over $120k gap between that and an E63 with nothing in the range in between.
The E500/550 is still being built for RHD market (Singapore & Japan at least) so we wrote to MBAuP and asked if we could do a special order, to which they flat out said "No, but how about a CLS500?" ... arrogant fools. A CLS500 is over $225k, and is only 4 seats, not the same car at all let alone way too pricey. So our dealer recently gave us an E400 on demo overnight saying it's just as good as an E500 bla bla bla.
Very disappointing is all I can say! Didn't mind the actual car, and all it's features, and the new facelift looks great, but there's no exciting exhaust note, and to drive it just feels like an oversized C-Class now, whereas the E500 used to feel like a baby S-Class. Won't be buying one that's for sure.
I hope somebody at MBAuP is reading this and listening! And if so please please let us have a non-AMG V8 when the brand new E-Class comes in a couple of years.
Anyone else now in an E400 from an E500/550? Would love to hear your thoughts too ... cheers guys
Fair enough dropping the E350, but dropping the E500 means us V8 lovers now have to spend another $80-90k to get into an E63, which are priced around $265k here depending on your options. The E350 used to sit around $130k, and the E500 around $180k. The E400 now sits at around $140k so there's over $120k gap between that and an E63 with nothing in the range in between.
The E500/550 is still being built for RHD market (Singapore & Japan at least) so we wrote to MBAuP and asked if we could do a special order, to which they flat out said "No, but how about a CLS500?" ... arrogant fools. A CLS500 is over $225k, and is only 4 seats, not the same car at all let alone way too pricey. So our dealer recently gave us an E400 on demo overnight saying it's just as good as an E500 bla bla bla.
Very disappointing is all I can say! Didn't mind the actual car, and all it's features, and the new facelift looks great, but there's no exciting exhaust note, and to drive it just feels like an oversized C-Class now, whereas the E500 used to feel like a baby S-Class. Won't be buying one that's for sure.
I hope somebody at MBAuP is reading this and listening! And if so please please let us have a non-AMG V8 when the brand new E-Class comes in a couple of years.
Anyone else now in an E400 from an E500/550? Would love to hear your thoughts too ... cheers guys
Last edited by Benz Werd; 02-05-2014 at 08:20 AM.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yes, there's a few (not that many) pre-facelift E500s around, but we're after a brand new car with our own options and colour choice.
Had a F10 550i for 3 days on demo ... wasn't bad, but no wow factor and drives like an old mans car surprisingly, and those interiors are just awful.
#4
Senior Member
Thanks for your input.
Yes, there's a few (not that many) pre-facelift E500s around, but we're after a brand new car with our own options and colour choice.
Had a F10 550i for 3 days on demo ... wasn't bad, but no wow factor and drives like an old mans car surprisingly, and those interiors are just awful.
Yes, there's a few (not that many) pre-facelift E500s around, but we're after a brand new car with our own options and colour choice.
Had a F10 550i for 3 days on demo ... wasn't bad, but no wow factor and drives like an old mans car surprisingly, and those interiors are just awful.
I see you're in Melbourne.
I'm visiting my sister there in April.
It's too hot now and April should be cooler?
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Haha funny that isn't it! I was surprised too. BMWs used to always give you a more serious driving feel, and Benz's were cushy, but it's switched around now it seems. The new 3-series is the same, compared to the C-Class. Will be interesting to see what the new W205 C-Class drives like, that's what we're holding out for now, and it will be alot cheaper than an E-Class too ... win win! C400 is on our wish list now.
Now we're suffering from a huge heat wave in Melbourne, as I'm sure your sister has told you, but by April things should have settled down and it's usually one of the nicest times of year right in the middle of autumn. Good choice!
If you've got time drop in and check out the Fox Car Collection just out of Melbourne CBD in Docklands. Mighty impressive and lots of old classic Benzes still brand new. An absolute must for a car enthusiast.
Now we're suffering from a huge heat wave in Melbourne, as I'm sure your sister has told you, but by April things should have settled down and it's usually one of the nicest times of year right in the middle of autumn. Good choice!
If you've got time drop in and check out the Fox Car Collection just out of Melbourne CBD in Docklands. Mighty impressive and lots of old classic Benzes still brand new. An absolute must for a car enthusiast.
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
I am not sure about AUS pricing but for a Mercedes V8 in the E500/550 price range you can check out the CLS550 or a C63.
I too will not be able to replace my E550 and I am not sure if I am willing to spend the money for an E63. BMW 5 and Audi S6 are both boring designs in my opinion.
I love the BMW 650i but it is priced to match the M5 and E63. I will be looking at the W205 C63 and the FL CLS550 when shopping.
I too will not be able to replace my E550 and I am not sure if I am willing to spend the money for an E63. BMW 5 and Audi S6 are both boring designs in my opinion.
I love the BMW 650i but it is priced to match the M5 and E63. I will be looking at the W205 C63 and the FL CLS550 when shopping.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I am not sure about AUS pricing but for a Mercedes V8 in the E500/550 price range you can check out the CLS550 or a C63.
I too will not be able to replace my E550 and I am not sure if I am willing to spend the money for an E63. BMW 5 and Audi S6 are both boring designs in my opinion.
I love the BMW 650i but it is priced to match the M5 and E63. I will be looking at the W205 C63 and the FL CLS550 when shopping.
I too will not be able to replace my E550 and I am not sure if I am willing to spend the money for an E63. BMW 5 and Audi S6 are both boring designs in my opinion.
I love the BMW 650i but it is priced to match the M5 and E63. I will be looking at the W205 C63 and the FL CLS550 when shopping.
So it's confirmed they're dropping the E550 in the US too? I guess it's a sign of the times and we just have to accept it. I'm a little nervous I won't be able to replace my ML500 in a couple of years either, as there's talk of the ML400 replacing those too. I will go diesel then and give up my V8 loving days I think.
I also agree that BMW & Audi just don't cut it, and are quite boring.
Thanks for your feedback. Happy motoring!
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#8
Super Member
I understand your frustration even though I am not an V-8 person. Aussie car prices are pretty insane, close to Asia prices? High import duties? Of course I am used to the great deals we get here in the USA...
#9
Senior Member
OP: I think the F10 you drove didn't come with M-Sports and the handling package.
That's why it was so boring and the electric steering lacks feel!
When I had the e9X 335D it was quite a bomb to drive (265 HP/425 Lb-Ft).
When you step on the throttle it literally snap your head back and off it goes!
The steering had lots of feedback like the traditional BMW.
The new f30 like the f10 is also more sedate unless you add in the sports and handling packages.
Like you I'm looking forward to the new W205.
I hope M-B puts in the 250 Diesel powertrain and in a wagon.
That will be a perfect vehicle for a daily drive.
I'll be checking it out at the Toronto Auto Show later this month.
That's why it was so boring and the electric steering lacks feel!
When I had the e9X 335D it was quite a bomb to drive (265 HP/425 Lb-Ft).
When you step on the throttle it literally snap your head back and off it goes!
The steering had lots of feedback like the traditional BMW.
The new f30 like the f10 is also more sedate unless you add in the sports and handling packages.
Like you I'm looking forward to the new W205.
I hope M-B puts in the 250 Diesel powertrain and in a wagon.
That will be a perfect vehicle for a daily drive.
I'll be checking it out at the Toronto Auto Show later this month.
#10
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2014 CLS550 4Matic
There doesn't seem to be definitive info out there yet. But some news/articles are saying the 500/550 (engine) is not going away just yet, but the E-sedan is not being offered in 2015 with the BTV8 because of poor sales (and wanting to raise average overall fuel efficieny for E-class). And yes the BTV6 (400) is replacing the current NAV6 (350). However, hopefully the 550 will still be around in E-Coupe and Cabriolets as well as other models like CLS, ML, etc. also, the E500/550 coupe are amazing and a great alternative to C63 if you don't need 4 doors.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
And yes, our car prices are insane, not quite as bad as Asia though (Singapore & Thailand ... wow) but I believe the Middle East is even higher so it could be worse. It's all relevant to the wages we earn here though, unlike Asia?? My ML500 was around 85% more expensive here than what you would pay in the US!
Cheers!
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
OP: I think the F10 you drove didn't come with M-Sports and the handling package.
That's why it was so boring and the electric steering lacks feel!
When I had the e9X 335D it was quite a bomb to drive (265 HP/425 Lb-Ft).
When you step on the throttle it literally snap your head back and off it goes!
The steering had lots of feedback like the traditional BMW.
The new f30 like the f10 is also more sedate unless you add in the sports and handling packages.
Like you I'm looking forward to the new W205.
I hope M-B puts in the 250 Diesel powertrain and in a wagon.
That will be a perfect vehicle for a daily drive.
I'll be checking it out at the Toronto Auto Show later this month.
That's why it was so boring and the electric steering lacks feel!
When I had the e9X 335D it was quite a bomb to drive (265 HP/425 Lb-Ft).
When you step on the throttle it literally snap your head back and off it goes!
The steering had lots of feedback like the traditional BMW.
The new f30 like the f10 is also more sedate unless you add in the sports and handling packages.
Like you I'm looking forward to the new W205.
I hope M-B puts in the 250 Diesel powertrain and in a wagon.
That will be a perfect vehicle for a daily drive.
I'll be checking it out at the Toronto Auto Show later this month.
From your drives I can see you seem to be a diesel guy so the you'd probably love the C250 diesel. Our C250 is petrol, but at the moment my ML is in for service and I've got a C250 diesel as a loaner. When idling it's so loud and rattly compared to ours, but I can feel it does have a bit more poke than the petrol, even though that goes pretty well also.
It's on my bucket list to get to one of your motor shows one day! They've made ours bi-annual now alternating each year between Melbourne and Sydney, and it's pretty lame, alot of manufacturers don't even bother to attend anymore.
Have a great day, thanks again for your comments
#13
Senior Member
Thanks, it's extremely frustrating yes!
And yes, our car prices are insane, not quite as bad as Asia though (Singapore & Thailand ... wow) but I believe the Middle East is even higher so it could be worse. It's all relevant to the wages we earn here though, unlike Asia?? My ML500 was around 85% more expensive here than what you would pay in the US!
Cheers!
And yes, our car prices are insane, not quite as bad as Asia though (Singapore & Thailand ... wow) but I believe the Middle East is even higher so it could be worse. It's all relevant to the wages we earn here though, unlike Asia?? My ML500 was around 85% more expensive here than what you would pay in the US!
Cheers!
In Singapore on top of the insane prices of vehicles one has to pay the government some kind of a fee ($50~60,000.00) for the privilege to buy a car! This is good for same 10 years I think.
In any case life's too short to worry about $$$.
So live it up and enjoy your Benz.
Cheers
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
There doesn't seem to be definitive info out there yet. But some news/articles are saying the 500/550 (engine) is not going away just yet, but the E-sedan is not being offered in 2015 with the BTV8 because of poor sales (and wanting to raise average overall fuel efficieny for E-class). And yes the BTV6 (400) is replacing the current NAV6 (350). However, hopefully the 550 will still be around in E-Coupe and Cabriolets as well as other models like CLS, ML, etc. also, the E500/550 coupe are amazing and a great alternative to C63 if you don't need 4 doors.
That BTV6 (400) is a great engine for what it is, alot smoother than the NAV6 (350), and apparently heaps more efficient too.
They dropped the 500 in the E-Class coupe & cabriolets here too, and there was never an AMG version, so now there's no V8 coupes or cabs at all, the E400 being the top of the range. Again, stupid if you ask me, but I guess sales figures have dictated that decision, so don't hold your breath that they'll keep them in your neck of the woods next year either. Enjoy your car as long as you can!
I had a chat to a sales guy at MB here last week about this, and he said he's had no word of them dropping the ML500 anytime soon as it sells reasonably well for now. Fingers crossed as I do want a new one when the facelift comes out in a year or two.
Not sure if they'll drop it from the CLS, I imagine they will eventually, but my biggest question is will they drop it from the S-Class. Somehow I doubt that very much.
Thanks for your comments also ...
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Man you mean downunder you earn 85% more than in the US?
In Singapore on top of the insane prices of vehicles one has to pay the government some kind of a fee ($50~60,000.00) for the privilege to buy a car! This is good for same 10 years I think.
In any case life's too short to worry about $$$.
So live it up and enjoy your Benz.
Cheers
In Singapore on top of the insane prices of vehicles one has to pay the government some kind of a fee ($50~60,000.00) for the privilege to buy a car! This is good for same 10 years I think.
In any case life's too short to worry about $$$.
So live it up and enjoy your Benz.
Cheers
Singapore is crazy, they have their Certificate of Entitlement thing and it's around $30k on top of every new car purchase I believe. Not sure how long it's valid for, but I also believe it transfers to the person you sell the car to, so you have to apply and pay for another one when you buy a new car. Strange system, but they believe it keeps their roads uncongested. You don't really need a car there anyway, the public transport is so good, and the maximum speed limit is 80km/h so you have to cross the border into Malaysia to be able to drive your car properly. Wouldn't that be frustrating if you love driving!
It's a great place though. We have quite a few Singaporean friends both living here and there. One of them told me just last week a new Toyota Corolla there is now $130k! You would hope that at least includes the C of E. As a comparison a new Corolla here is around $25-30k.
Yes, life is short and I do enjoy my Benz everyday! haha
#16
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GLK250 BlueTec- 2014
miss my time in AUS....
yips ....Aussies love their V8s !!
Nothing compared to a Fords SVP or Holdern''s HSV model V8 that I had the pleasure of driving around for 3 yrs durations during my DOWN-UNDER work experience....
MBAusP = at best SUCKS ! as I had same same experience with them about getting a E55...........
Current car = Audi S8 (leased work vehicle) ......
Cheers to my aussie mate !
MikeD
Nothing compared to a Fords SVP or Holdern''s HSV model V8 that I had the pleasure of driving around for 3 yrs durations during my DOWN-UNDER work experience....
MBAusP = at best SUCKS ! as I had same same experience with them about getting a E55...........
Current car = Audi S8 (leased work vehicle) ......
Cheers to my aussie mate !
MikeD
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
yips ....Aussies love their V8s !!
Nothing compared to a Fords SVP or Holdern''s HSV model V8 that I had the pleasure of driving around for 3 yrs durations during my DOWN-UNDER work experience....
MBAusP = at best SUCKS ! as I had same same experience with them about getting a E55...........
Current car = Audi S8 (leased work vehicle) ......
Cheers to my aussie mate !
MikeD
Nothing compared to a Fords SVP or Holdern''s HSV model V8 that I had the pleasure of driving around for 3 yrs durations during my DOWN-UNDER work experience....
MBAusP = at best SUCKS ! as I had same same experience with them about getting a E55...........
Current car = Audi S8 (leased work vehicle) ......
Cheers to my aussie mate !
MikeD
Yes, MBAuP are arrogant sods, which is bad because it has tarnished my love of the brand alot the last few years. I could bang on & on about all the things that have happened, but that would take forever. I just have to keep reminding myself that it's the foolish people who work there that are causing my bad feelings, not the MB product. I'm certainly not as passionate as I once was. Our experience with BMW was alot worse though. Never owned an Audi but my brother is a huge fan and has a Q7 V8 in his garage. We're always stirring each other up as to whose car is better, but it's funny how he always wants to drive mine anytime he gets the chance!
How is the S8? I bet it's a beast! I've also got a Ford FPV ute so the ML isn't the only V8 in the family
And you've got a GLK? That's what car the other half really wants but they're not available here. It's rumoured the new generation will be built in RHD so we might see that at least. Fingers crossed!
Cheers back to you to bro ...
#18
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GLK250 BlueTec- 2014
?..........{{Due to this Ford & Holden (General Motors) are both shutting down production here over the next few years for good. So we are saying goodbye to the Aussie V8 too, and all Aussie car production except for Toyota, but it's expected they'll follow suit soon }}
MAJOR reason MB = super 'dont care damn' about rest of the world = DUE TO every car they can build they can sell @THE HIGHER(ST) PROFIT in China .... than rest of the world - so thus they actually rather sell the BIG V8s in China & Japan than make it for 'head-ache' customers (wont write the actual german word for that).....So asian customers =1000% more profit for those cars.......and they couldnt careless for aussies or american market where "pollution + other laws etc etc..eg NOONE sues MB for "lemon laws" in ASIA among other things ...........
Yip ... Sad to hear to hear about HOLDEN & FORD closing their Assembly Plants in Aust (i spent 3 wonderful yrs in Melb working at various MFG plants including Ford's SVP plant) At arrival I had inherited my bosses older E550 - thus was TRYING to SPECIAL ORDER a newer one and got very frustrted with MBAustP!
Then someone gave me a SV Ford off the factory Floor for a night - never handed it back.....and last yr of my time there had a newer BROCKie SPECIAL BUILT! (used that to tour all around aust - ouch cost heaps to fill up even then!!)
Ahh ....those were the single carefree days !!..lol
{{How is the S8? I bet it's a beast! I've also got a Ford FPV ute so the ML isn't the only V8 in the family }}
car b 4 Audi = 750iL - was a heap of Junk!...thus got the Audi (am mostly doing work for BIG CAR Mfgers -helping with their SCM - 'consulting work') ....so have seen them all including "godzilla Nissan" in Japan for 18mths - Pity there isn't much ROAD to fully utilize its designed speeds & cornering > and did a REAL PARIS to DAKKA rally ......
{{And you've got a GLK? That's what car the other half really wants but they're not available here. It's rumoured the new generation will be built in RHD so we might see that at least. Fingers crossed!}}
GLK= other half's and b 4 that used to be ML320 (both Diesel) The GLK is frankly a step down but she loves it as its mostly her alone driving it - thus a great 'lady car' ((pls dont flame me for sayin that)
Bro is in NZ & he just took delivery of NEW M6 Beemer ...so will see how that compares to S8 (love the High rev's+Quattro in Audi's = does 120Mph @1100rpm!! and most uphills on any interstate dont even register with any change in revs during auto mode cruise)
Cheers back to you to bro ...
MAJOR reason MB = super 'dont care damn' about rest of the world = DUE TO every car they can build they can sell @THE HIGHER(ST) PROFIT in China .... than rest of the world - so thus they actually rather sell the BIG V8s in China & Japan than make it for 'head-ache' customers (wont write the actual german word for that).....So asian customers =1000% more profit for those cars.......and they couldnt careless for aussies or american market where "pollution + other laws etc etc..eg NOONE sues MB for "lemon laws" in ASIA among other things ...........
Yip ... Sad to hear to hear about HOLDEN & FORD closing their Assembly Plants in Aust (i spent 3 wonderful yrs in Melb working at various MFG plants including Ford's SVP plant) At arrival I had inherited my bosses older E550 - thus was TRYING to SPECIAL ORDER a newer one and got very frustrted with MBAustP!
Then someone gave me a SV Ford off the factory Floor for a night - never handed it back.....and last yr of my time there had a newer BROCKie SPECIAL BUILT! (used that to tour all around aust - ouch cost heaps to fill up even then!!)
Ahh ....those were the single carefree days !!..lol
{{How is the S8? I bet it's a beast! I've also got a Ford FPV ute so the ML isn't the only V8 in the family }}
car b 4 Audi = 750iL - was a heap of Junk!...thus got the Audi (am mostly doing work for BIG CAR Mfgers -helping with their SCM - 'consulting work') ....so have seen them all including "godzilla Nissan" in Japan for 18mths - Pity there isn't much ROAD to fully utilize its designed speeds & cornering > and did a REAL PARIS to DAKKA rally ......
{{And you've got a GLK? That's what car the other half really wants but they're not available here. It's rumoured the new generation will be built in RHD so we might see that at least. Fingers crossed!}}
GLK= other half's and b 4 that used to be ML320 (both Diesel) The GLK is frankly a step down but she loves it as its mostly her alone driving it - thus a great 'lady car' ((pls dont flame me for sayin that)
Bro is in NZ & he just took delivery of NEW M6 Beemer ...so will see how that compares to S8 (love the High rev's+Quattro in Audi's = does 120Mph @1100rpm!! and most uphills on any interstate dont even register with any change in revs during auto mode cruise)
Cheers back to you to bro ...
cheers matey
Last edited by miked807; 02-06-2014 at 06:10 AM. Reason: left out a comment
#20
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#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
That is awesome.
Notice how the E400's transmission is in sport mode but the E500 is being driven in manual mode?
Either way amazing comparo ... but I still stand by what I say in relation to the way these 2 cars drive.
E400 feels like a large C-Class
E500 feels like a baby S-Class
Depends what you like I guess!
Thanks for sharing that video anyway, loved it!
Notice how the E400's transmission is in sport mode but the E500 is being driven in manual mode?
Either way amazing comparo ... but I still stand by what I say in relation to the way these 2 cars drive.
E400 feels like a large C-Class
E500 feels like a baby S-Class
Depends what you like I guess!
Thanks for sharing that video anyway, loved it!
#23
Senior Member
The faster you drive, the bigger the difference. So when driving outside Germany, the E400 will just do the job as good as its V8 brother.
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
Why was the E500 in manual and delayed shifts? Is someone trying to prove something to ignorant buyers?
#25
Senior Member
Delayed shifts? What do you mean?
PS: In manual mode, the 7g-TronicPlus uses exactly the same RPM for automatic upshifts, as in WOT in "E" or "S". So the mode does not make a difference.
PS: In manual mode, the 7g-TronicPlus uses exactly the same RPM for automatic upshifts, as in WOT in "E" or "S". So the mode does not make a difference.