Maserati Ghibli
02-12-2014, 11:48 PM
#26
Senior Member
No, I understood you, that's why I broke the mention of the E63 into a different paragraph I wish more wagons would come over, to make negotiation easier...but I suppose an AMG will eventually depreciate like week old bread, so one can just be patient.
But it's moot. As many say, the Ghibli is not competing with the E - a bit more expensive, no doubt will likely not as easy to live with, especially in the long term. Of course, most who are able to get new ones probably don't keep them forever.
I've only known one person who was close to one, father in law had a ~2005 coupe. Not a trouble-free car. He also had a late run R129 that was solid as a rock.
But it's moot. As many say, the Ghibli is not competing with the E - a bit more expensive, no doubt will likely not as easy to live with, especially in the long term. Of course, most who are able to get new ones probably don't keep them forever.
I've only known one person who was close to one, father in law had a ~2005 coupe. Not a trouble-free car. He also had a late run R129 that was solid as a rock.
I think you misunderstood my post. A regular E350 wagon is more rare than a Maserati, they brought in less than 2,000 of those. The E63s AMG wagon is still selling in the double digits per year and for every one there are two SLS on the road.
But you are right, the E-wagon does not have that "exotic" look or badge but as I already stated that is not the reason I drive one, I really don't care what other people think about what I drive. Truth be told most probably think "look at that idiot, he could have bought two Honda Odysseys for the price".
But you are right, the E-wagon does not have that "exotic" look or badge but as I already stated that is not the reason I drive one, I really don't care what other people think about what I drive. Truth be told most probably think "look at that idiot, he could have bought two Honda Odysseys for the price".
Last edited by fintail; 02-12-2014 at 11:50 PM.
02-13-2014, 01:29 AM
#28
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I've been strongly considering this, checked it out, priced it out, following the immediate "depreciation" by keeping an eye on the "Used" market (not much at all yet) and discounting trends, etc. Keep in mind, right now you won't see anything near M-B or BMW type incentives or artificially raised residuals, so leasing is comparatively very unattractive. Buying seems more prudent on this particular car, however Maserati's have always suffered from the worst depreciation, and this might be better due to being a "cheaper" Maserati, but still, one has to judge how it'll depreciate vs the class hallmarks, 5 Series, E Class, etc.
I have lots of thoughts about it, but to sum it up, coming from my current vantage point:
-A sum up is that you're buying a badge and brand exclusivity and have to put up with some fundamental shortcomings. The irony here is that at such a low price, that "exclusivity" might be in jeopardy.... if it sells well.
-Still has reliability woes based on initial ownership.
-Not nearly as quiet, smooth or refined as the 5 Series from the inside.
-Might be the handling leader in the class, as it's very sportily oriented.
-Sounds incredible, which is astonishing for a V6 as V6's usually sound pretty lame to me (an I6 or Flat 6 on the other hand, sounds sublime). Props to the Ferrari assembly effect perhaps.
-Design is hit or miss, can look bland and awkward or stunning and exotic. NEEDS bigger wheels, the base wheels are garbage. The rear looks very un-elegant and very generic, but somehow still kind of tight and sporty due to the Maser proportions. I hate the black plastic that surrounds the bottom of the rear bumper and side skirts, very 90's car before they started getting painted down there.
-It's not as underlying-ly high quality built as a BMW or Mercedes, panel gaps are a little larger, details aren't paid as much attention to, etc.
-I found the interior to be nice, but definitely inferior to my 5 Series. LOTS of REALLY CRAPPY Chrysler buttons you'll find in $18K Chryslers (which are crappy even compared to their low priced competitors), the light switch and most importantly shift knob are chintzy, light, insanely cheap feeling Chrysler parts. Without the extended leather package, you get no stitching along the door panels like you do the 5 and E's, and just Maserati (or Chrysler) bare plastic, decent material but inferior to the 5 Series I think, ther than that, the interior is pretty nice, I hate touchscreens in cars, the Chrysler UI is garbage compared to iDrive, etc.
-I'm still considering it as I wouldn't mind something a little "exotic on a budget" and the Ghibli seems to be just that, but it might not be with all the inferiorities from my current car. The tech and luxury features as well don't come close to the 5 Series. I also think the 5 Series is a better looking car perhaps, much more balanced and timeless, but the Ghibli has an exclusivity/exotic-ish appeal that I wouldn't mind to experience for a bit and get out of my system at least. Of course, the Ghibli might be what ruins Maserati's exclusivity, which would then make it a nice but fundamentally inferior car (driving dynamics aside) to the competition.
-Driving dynamics are why you buy this car, it's the closest thing to a true sports car in class, but it isn't targeting your average Mercedes buyer for these very reasons, which is why Maserati has explicitly said that they're mostly trying to hopefully convince mostly those who are considering 5 Series', or one of the various "4 door Coupes". I'm sure A6 buyers will also find it comparable in dynamics enough to consider.
Here's a review from the Maserati board from a guy who has a 2012 550 XDrive and a Ghibli. His comments are thoughtful and descriptive, and when you consider that the 2012 5 Series was inferior to the 2013 in many technological ways, and that the 2014 (facelift) 550i has MUCH improved tech, is more powerful, and with RWD gets an ACTUAL M suspension, I'd think he'd probably say that the 2014 550i beats or at least nears the Ghibli in the more rare areas he does like the Ghibli better:
I have lots of thoughts about it, but to sum it up, coming from my current vantage point:
-A sum up is that you're buying a badge and brand exclusivity and have to put up with some fundamental shortcomings. The irony here is that at such a low price, that "exclusivity" might be in jeopardy.... if it sells well.
-Still has reliability woes based on initial ownership.
-Not nearly as quiet, smooth or refined as the 5 Series from the inside.
-Might be the handling leader in the class, as it's very sportily oriented.
-Sounds incredible, which is astonishing for a V6 as V6's usually sound pretty lame to me (an I6 or Flat 6 on the other hand, sounds sublime). Props to the Ferrari assembly effect perhaps.
-Design is hit or miss, can look bland and awkward or stunning and exotic. NEEDS bigger wheels, the base wheels are garbage. The rear looks very un-elegant and very generic, but somehow still kind of tight and sporty due to the Maser proportions. I hate the black plastic that surrounds the bottom of the rear bumper and side skirts, very 90's car before they started getting painted down there.
-It's not as underlying-ly high quality built as a BMW or Mercedes, panel gaps are a little larger, details aren't paid as much attention to, etc.
-I found the interior to be nice, but definitely inferior to my 5 Series. LOTS of REALLY CRAPPY Chrysler buttons you'll find in $18K Chryslers (which are crappy even compared to their low priced competitors), the light switch and most importantly shift knob are chintzy, light, insanely cheap feeling Chrysler parts. Without the extended leather package, you get no stitching along the door panels like you do the 5 and E's, and just Maserati (or Chrysler) bare plastic, decent material but inferior to the 5 Series I think, ther than that, the interior is pretty nice, I hate touchscreens in cars, the Chrysler UI is garbage compared to iDrive, etc.
-I'm still considering it as I wouldn't mind something a little "exotic on a budget" and the Ghibli seems to be just that, but it might not be with all the inferiorities from my current car. The tech and luxury features as well don't come close to the 5 Series. I also think the 5 Series is a better looking car perhaps, much more balanced and timeless, but the Ghibli has an exclusivity/exotic-ish appeal that I wouldn't mind to experience for a bit and get out of my system at least. Of course, the Ghibli might be what ruins Maserati's exclusivity, which would then make it a nice but fundamentally inferior car (driving dynamics aside) to the competition.
-Driving dynamics are why you buy this car, it's the closest thing to a true sports car in class, but it isn't targeting your average Mercedes buyer for these very reasons, which is why Maserati has explicitly said that they're mostly trying to hopefully convince mostly those who are considering 5 Series', or one of the various "4 door Coupes". I'm sure A6 buyers will also find it comparable in dynamics enough to consider.
Here's a review from the Maserati board from a guy who has a 2012 550 XDrive and a Ghibli. His comments are thoughtful and descriptive, and when you consider that the 2012 5 Series was inferior to the 2013 in many technological ways, and that the 2014 (facelift) 550i has MUCH improved tech, is more powerful, and with RWD gets an ACTUAL M suspension, I'd think he'd probably say that the 2014 550i beats or at least nears the Ghibli in the more rare areas he does like the Ghibli better:
Specs of the 2 cars:
2012 550xi M sport, Carbon Black, Black interior (has all options except head-up display, Bang & Olufsen Sound System and night-vision camera)
Ghibli S Q4
Blue Emozione
Tan
Caliper Blu
19 Proteo
Ebano Trim
Extended Leather
Premium Sound
Premium Package
Cold Weather Package
Sport Package
... and here is what I think of the 2 cars
Look: Both cars are beautiful as 550xi with M sport package definitely stands out from normal 5 series. Ghibli, of course it's a Maserati and it's a head turner.
Interior Quality: In terms of quality, I would say 550xi wins. It has better finish on the inside and feels more luxurious. Control panels and buttons all seems to be of better quality. The buttons layouts are also easier to use in 550xi while driving. Maserati needs to steal iDrive from BMW!
One thing that Ghibli wins in the interior, is the leather. You are surrounded with more leather that 550xi and it does feel like Italian.
Exterior Quality: I would say 550xi has better quality here as well mainly because of the doors. Doors close quietly and smoothly (it even has soft close). The finishes around the doors is of better quality as well. The doors are heavier in 550xi too, so it feels like luxury car, while Ghibli's door is light and close with a cheap sound.
Reliability: 550xi wins, I had very few issues with BMW, but with Ghibli I already have couple of issues ending up in dealer's lot.
Noise: Again 550xi wins in terms of cabin quietness. I can definitely hear more noise from outside in Ghibli.
Audio Sound: Both cars have what's called "premium sounds", middle level package. 550xi wins here as well. As many have already complained, Ghibli doesn't have bass at all.
Exhaust note: Ghibli wins, there is no comparison on this as 550xi doesn't make any exhaust note at all compared to Ghibli. But I was thinking to install some Dinan's or even BMW OEM performance exhaust on it, which might bring the 550xi to the level where I can compare them.
Speed: Both cars are about the same in terms of the 0-60. But as you may know 550xi is V8 and I can feel it has 2 more cylinders, but Maserati did a very good job matching V6 against it.
Driving and handling:
550xi = more comfort and good handling.
Ghibli = not as comfort as 550xi but better handling and more fun to drive
550xi has both of comfort and sportiness that you would expect from a German car. It's not as fund as Ghibli in terms of driving, but it performs well.
With Ghibli I can more feel the road and feel more confident when driving. It handles better and sounds better! but I had few complains from my friends who had ride on Ghibli saying they prefer 550xi when seating on the rear.
To summarize, I think 550xi has better built quality and it's more reliable. Driving is as fun as you would normally expect from a BMW, and has tons of features that's not available in Ghibli. I would stick with 550xi if you care about technologies and interior coziness, often ride the car with people in the back or prefer quiet cabin and less attention from public.
Ghibli has its typical Maserati's quirks, but it's unique and has that feeling like I'm in a special car. If you want to hear those exhaust note, have fun driving not caring what other people in the rear seats think, go with Ghibli. Ghibli is definitely more of a driving car rather than a pure luxury car like from other Germans cars.
2012 550xi M sport, Carbon Black, Black interior (has all options except head-up display, Bang & Olufsen Sound System and night-vision camera)
Ghibli S Q4
Blue Emozione
Tan
Caliper Blu
19 Proteo
Ebano Trim
Extended Leather
Premium Sound
Premium Package
Cold Weather Package
Sport Package
... and here is what I think of the 2 cars
Look: Both cars are beautiful as 550xi with M sport package definitely stands out from normal 5 series. Ghibli, of course it's a Maserati and it's a head turner.
Interior Quality: In terms of quality, I would say 550xi wins. It has better finish on the inside and feels more luxurious. Control panels and buttons all seems to be of better quality. The buttons layouts are also easier to use in 550xi while driving. Maserati needs to steal iDrive from BMW!
One thing that Ghibli wins in the interior, is the leather. You are surrounded with more leather that 550xi and it does feel like Italian.
Exterior Quality: I would say 550xi has better quality here as well mainly because of the doors. Doors close quietly and smoothly (it even has soft close). The finishes around the doors is of better quality as well. The doors are heavier in 550xi too, so it feels like luxury car, while Ghibli's door is light and close with a cheap sound.
Reliability: 550xi wins, I had very few issues with BMW, but with Ghibli I already have couple of issues ending up in dealer's lot.
Noise: Again 550xi wins in terms of cabin quietness. I can definitely hear more noise from outside in Ghibli.
Audio Sound: Both cars have what's called "premium sounds", middle level package. 550xi wins here as well. As many have already complained, Ghibli doesn't have bass at all.
Exhaust note: Ghibli wins, there is no comparison on this as 550xi doesn't make any exhaust note at all compared to Ghibli. But I was thinking to install some Dinan's or even BMW OEM performance exhaust on it, which might bring the 550xi to the level where I can compare them.
Speed: Both cars are about the same in terms of the 0-60. But as you may know 550xi is V8 and I can feel it has 2 more cylinders, but Maserati did a very good job matching V6 against it.
Driving and handling:
550xi = more comfort and good handling.
Ghibli = not as comfort as 550xi but better handling and more fun to drive
550xi has both of comfort and sportiness that you would expect from a German car. It's not as fund as Ghibli in terms of driving, but it performs well.
With Ghibli I can more feel the road and feel more confident when driving. It handles better and sounds better! but I had few complains from my friends who had ride on Ghibli saying they prefer 550xi when seating on the rear.
To summarize, I think 550xi has better built quality and it's more reliable. Driving is as fun as you would normally expect from a BMW, and has tons of features that's not available in Ghibli. I would stick with 550xi if you care about technologies and interior coziness, often ride the car with people in the back or prefer quiet cabin and less attention from public.
Ghibli has its typical Maserati's quirks, but it's unique and has that feeling like I'm in a special car. If you want to hear those exhaust note, have fun driving not caring what other people in the rear seats think, go with Ghibli. Ghibli is definitely more of a driving car rather than a pure luxury car like from other Germans cars.
Last edited by K-A; 02-13-2014 at 02:02 AM.
02-13-2014, 08:22 AM
#30
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2012 CLS63
so KA you're actually going to buy a car???
02-13-2014, 08:39 AM
#31
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
If you mean buy vs lease, considering I haven't bought a car since my W211, if I *buy* a car it'll probably be a 991 as it's one of the only cars that ensures long term timeless design and holds its value (most Porsche's do, in fact).
"Buying" a Maserati is a dangerous idea, but one that MSRP's for mid 70's has a lot less downside than one that does for 6 figures, of course. Though, unless Maser gets really competitive with the lease prices, then I could never justify getting a car that's so fundamentally inferior to my current one, yet leases for so much more due to lack of subsidy's. However, cars are an emotional proposition to me and like most Italian cars, the Ghibli's joys are mostly emotional rather than technical.
Realistically, the only really smart way to get a Ghibli would probably be to buy an extremely low mileage one if you can get it for 20-30% under MSRP price. Not saying that's possible, but with a risky car like this, it'd be ideal. That or Maserati subsidizing the hell out of it to try and keep relatively up with the E350 or even sometimes 528i leases for that matter which sometimes for what you'd expect a loaded Honda to go for.
In reality, I don't think most M-B or BMW or Audi drivers in this segment will actually get the Ghibli unless they have a more "dependable and proven" car in the garage as well. I'll certainly cross shop it when my lease is up, in 10 months, but for the first time ever, I'm hoping to downsize my cars size rather then go bigger again.
"Buying" a Maserati is a dangerous idea, but one that MSRP's for mid 70's has a lot less downside than one that does for 6 figures, of course. Though, unless Maser gets really competitive with the lease prices, then I could never justify getting a car that's so fundamentally inferior to my current one, yet leases for so much more due to lack of subsidy's. However, cars are an emotional proposition to me and like most Italian cars, the Ghibli's joys are mostly emotional rather than technical.
Realistically, the only really smart way to get a Ghibli would probably be to buy an extremely low mileage one if you can get it for 20-30% under MSRP price. Not saying that's possible, but with a risky car like this, it'd be ideal. That or Maserati subsidizing the hell out of it to try and keep relatively up with the E350 or even sometimes 528i leases for that matter which sometimes for what you'd expect a loaded Honda to go for.
In reality, I don't think most M-B or BMW or Audi drivers in this segment will actually get the Ghibli unless they have a more "dependable and proven" car in the garage as well. I'll certainly cross shop it when my lease is up, in 10 months, but for the first time ever, I'm hoping to downsize my cars size rather then go bigger again.
02-13-2014, 12:58 PM
#32
well, if you're looking for good sport and can imagine all the time you'll spend driving without any back-seat passengers - there really is no losing with a cayman s.
-better performance
-better fuel economy
-manual transmission (optional PDK is better, too)
-better engine note from the NA flat six
-better reliability
-better residual
-better customization options
-better price
correct me if i'm wrong here...
-better performance
-better fuel economy
-manual transmission (optional PDK is better, too)
-better engine note from the NA flat six
-better reliability
-better residual
-better customization options
-better price
correct me if i'm wrong here...
02-15-2014, 09:49 PM
#33
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Finally found a comparison test with the Ghibli. As it seems to target the 5 Series the most, it makes sense that it's between these two. Unfortunately they're both Diesels, but article makes some good remarks about how the Ghibli compares to the tried and true's in various ways and where it does shine. The design is perplexing to me as I find it both awkward sometimes yet absolutely stunning others, I'm mostly apprehensive of the overtly angular shape portions which I don't think will age all that well. The front looks very exotic for this class, again a little smoothed out and I would have liked it even more, but the rear is a little bland and basic, no match for the 5 Series' butt, IMO. The interior of the 5 looks an easy class above, which is brought up in the article. The Ghibli is really hurt by the fact that it largely looks and feels like a Chrysler 300 inside.
The 5 Series took the win, btw.
The 5 Series took the win, btw.
02-18-2014, 06:57 PM
#34
Super Member
If the Ghibli didn't raid the MOPAR interior parts bin, then it will be a desirable car. The engine sounds great and all. Perhaps after LCI then Maserati guys will have time to get their own version of switches and buttons.
02-18-2014, 08:14 PM
#35
Senior Member
Not trying to start another 'war' on here, but I really can't understand why anyone would sing the praises of the 5-Series 'butt'.
The rear end of virtually all BMWs is the weak spot in its design. Mismatched light alignment Saab-style, poor and boring light design, and an overall blandness found on 'lesser' cars.
Some may appreciate the lack of bling on a BMW, but a luxury car should look like a luxury car, IMO.
The rear end of virtually all BMWs is the weak spot in its design. Mismatched light alignment Saab-style, poor and boring light design, and an overall blandness found on 'lesser' cars.
Some may appreciate the lack of bling on a BMW, but a luxury car should look like a luxury car, IMO.
Last edited by Wig; 02-18-2014 at 08:16 PM.
02-18-2014, 09:26 PM
#36
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Not trying to start another 'war' on here, but I really can't understand why anyone would sing the praises of the 5-Series 'butt'.
The rear end of virtually all BMWs is the weak spot in its design. Mismatched light alignment Saab-style, poor and boring light design, and an overall blandness found on 'lesser' cars.
Some may appreciate the lack of bling on a BMW, but a luxury car should look like a luxury car, IMO.
The rear end of virtually all BMWs is the weak spot in its design. Mismatched light alignment Saab-style, poor and boring light design, and an overall blandness found on 'lesser' cars.
Some may appreciate the lack of bling on a BMW, but a luxury car should look like a luxury car, IMO.
Maserati seems to have taken a Kia rear and modified it to Maser proportions.
02-18-2014, 09:42 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
http://wheels.ae/drives/group-tests/...i-a6-1.1281441
Wheels loves it and picked it over bmw and audi. Sharp looking car
Wheels loves it and picked it over bmw and audi. Sharp looking car
