E350 vs. TL
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 748
Likes: 27
From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
Congrats to the OP on the big time promotion! Recognition is huge especially when it comes with more $. I like my positive reinforcement every two weeks.
...and I thought the OP was concerned about reliability / warranty? While it seems the Panamera isn't as poor as their Touraeg err Cayenne, I'm still surprised the OP passed on the extended warranty for comparatively not a lot more dough.
http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Po...edan/index.htm
Many years ago I owned an '01 Acura CL Type-S coupe. At the same time my mother-in-law drove a '10 Honda Accord V6 Coupe. Aside from the Acura's bigger 6 and tranny with an extra gear, the cars were exceedingly similar. Disappointingly similar when I paid nearly $10k more for mine than hers.
More recently, I owned an '02 Lexus GS430. While it shared numerous corporate parts from "lesser" Toyotas, it never felt like a Camry or even an ES300/330. It felt and drove like a more expensive car.
It's difficult to point to any black and white reasons why, but the Lexus was much nicer than a Toyota and the Acura was awfully close to a Honda.
...and I thought the OP was concerned about reliability / warranty? While it seems the Panamera isn't as poor as their Touraeg err Cayenne, I'm still surprised the OP passed on the extended warranty for comparatively not a lot more dough.
http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Po...edan/index.htm
Many years ago I owned an '01 Acura CL Type-S coupe. At the same time my mother-in-law drove a '10 Honda Accord V6 Coupe. Aside from the Acura's bigger 6 and tranny with an extra gear, the cars were exceedingly similar. Disappointingly similar when I paid nearly $10k more for mine than hers.
More recently, I owned an '02 Lexus GS430. While it shared numerous corporate parts from "lesser" Toyotas, it never felt like a Camry or even an ES300/330. It felt and drove like a more expensive car.
It's difficult to point to any black and white reasons why, but the Lexus was much nicer than a Toyota and the Acura was awfully close to a Honda.
Last edited by Johnny Rad; Oct 24, 2014 at 11:58 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 748
Likes: 27
From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
It's been way too long to compare my E to to the Acura, but I can share how my E compares to my previous Lexus. Both confidently cruise(d) down the hwy, but the E soaks up road imperfections significantly better and is a bit quieter ... as well it should for being a decade newer you'd say, but the Lexus was never this good. Unfortunately, my E w/Sport pkg isn't any better in the twisties than the Lexus. Odd, but true.
Reliability? My Lexus unsurprisingly set the bar unfathomably high. I honestly spent more money tuning up my road bike and buying weight weenie gear for it than I ever did on my Lexus. That Lexus never wore out mechanically or in the cabin like some earlier posters suggested.
Reliability? My Lexus unsurprisingly set the bar unfathomably high. I honestly spent more money tuning up my road bike and buying weight weenie gear for it than I ever did on my Lexus. That Lexus never wore out mechanically or in the cabin like some earlier posters suggested.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 303
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2011 E550 (RIP), 2014 CLS 550C4
Before my '05 E500 my whip was a 1990 Honda Accord EX 5 speed 4 door - which I bought used in 1994 with only 12K miles on it. I drove that car until 2008 - 14 years, and I put almost 200K miles on it. Aside from the usual consumables, in that time I put an alt on it, an ignition module, timing belt and water pump (but not because they broke), and a couple of sets of CV shafts. Never replaced the clutch. Stone reliable.
Then came the '05 E500, also bought used, with about 42K miles. Constant suspension bits; ball joints, strut rod bushings, front shocks, rear shocks. Engine and trans mounts, drive shaft couplers, fuel tank leak, auto wipers that would sometimes just stop working, transmission gremlins, etc. Stuff went wrong on the 500 that should never go wrong on car, period, and on one with such low mileage - especially a supposedly well engineered car being sold as a premium conveyance. There was always something wrong with that thing, minor or otherwise.
But wholly crap would that thing run down the highway. Quiet, smooth, arrow straight, and satisfyingly swift. I was hooked.
Hence, against my logical judgment, I'm now in the '11 E550 and hoping that MB got their quality issues sorted out, or that all the crap that is going to break does so before my extended warranty expires!
Then came the '05 E500, also bought used, with about 42K miles. Constant suspension bits; ball joints, strut rod bushings, front shocks, rear shocks. Engine and trans mounts, drive shaft couplers, fuel tank leak, auto wipers that would sometimes just stop working, transmission gremlins, etc. Stuff went wrong on the 500 that should never go wrong on car, period, and on one with such low mileage - especially a supposedly well engineered car being sold as a premium conveyance. There was always something wrong with that thing, minor or otherwise.
But wholly crap would that thing run down the highway. Quiet, smooth, arrow straight, and satisfyingly swift. I was hooked.
Hence, against my logical judgment, I'm now in the '11 E550 and hoping that MB got their quality issues sorted out, or that all the crap that is going to break does so before my extended warranty expires!
Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 203
Likes: 2
E89 Z4
Congrats to the OP on the big time promotion! Recognition is huge especially when it comes with more $. I like my positive reinforcement every two weeks.
...and I thought the OP was concerned about reliability / warranty? While it seems the Panamera isn't as poor as their Touraeg err Cayenne, I'm still surprised the OP passed on the extended warranty for comparatively not a lot more dough.
http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Po...edan/index.htm
Many years ago I owned an '01 Acura CL Type-S coupe. At the same time my mother-in-law drove a '10 Honda Accord V6 Coupe. Aside from the Acura's bigger 6 and tranny with an extra gear, the cars were exceedingly similar. Disappointingly similar when I paid nearly $10k more for mine than hers.
More recently, I owned an '02 Lexus GS430. While it shared numerous corporate parts from "lesser" Toyotas, it never felt like a Camry or even an ES300/330. It felt and drive like a more expensive car.
It's difficult to point to any black and white reasons why, but the Lexus was much nicer than a Toyota and the Acura was awfully close to a Honda.
...and I thought the OP was concerned about reliability / warranty? While it seems the Panamera isn't as poor as their Touraeg err Cayenne, I'm still surprised the OP passed on the extended warranty for comparatively not a lot more dough.
http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Po...edan/index.htm
Many years ago I owned an '01 Acura CL Type-S coupe. At the same time my mother-in-law drove a '10 Honda Accord V6 Coupe. Aside from the Acura's bigger 6 and tranny with an extra gear, the cars were exceedingly similar. Disappointingly similar when I paid nearly $10k more for mine than hers.
More recently, I owned an '02 Lexus GS430. While it shared numerous corporate parts from "lesser" Toyotas, it never felt like a Camry or even an ES300/330. It felt and drive like a more expensive car.
It's difficult to point to any black and white reasons why, but the Lexus was much nicer than a Toyota and the Acura was awfully close to a Honda.
And as you say, the best thing about the Honda/Acura is the engine anyway. A V6 Accord coupe is a relatively great car depending on what you want. It is fast, reliable and has lots of gizmos for cheap. If you go 4-door all kinds of things change and you don't get to pick them. The bad balance and the FWD will put an end to the fun in certain driving styles. On the other hand if you enjoy those you probably don't get a "small" engine E class anyway.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Oh, c'mon. The current TL is one of the biggest design fails after the timeless previous gen. A well built car, but there's nothing even remotely alluring about it, aside from the sensible factors. FWD, etc.
On a value metric, of course, it's a whole different story. The TL can surely give you more for less, but that's because the TL is a value-premium car, while M-B isn't supposed to be. At the same time, W212's get discounted to such insane lengths, that it reaches lease prices of cars that cost a tons less than what it's supposed to cost, so it might even be cheaper than a TL on a "long term rental" basis, depending on how the TL gets discounted (should be pretty large as well, considering the horrible styling).
The next gen TL couldn't come any sooner. Seems like this one has been out for an eternity already.
On a value metric, of course, it's a whole different story. The TL can surely give you more for less, but that's because the TL is a value-premium car, while M-B isn't supposed to be. At the same time, W212's get discounted to such insane lengths, that it reaches lease prices of cars that cost a tons less than what it's supposed to cost, so it might even be cheaper than a TL on a "long term rental" basis, depending on how the TL gets discounted (should be pretty large as well, considering the horrible styling).
The next gen TL couldn't come any sooner. Seems like this one has been out for an eternity already.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 748
Likes: 27
From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
Agreed, Acura is coming close to jumping the shark. Their designers and mgmt team should be keel hauled for their recent body of work. The '05 RL was fair, but boring and never adequately updated. The new RLX is horribly boring and devoid of character. I'm not sure if their backwards facing forward driving TL is silly stupid or just stupid.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
The E550 isn't near 4,400 lbs. I'd be surprised it it's over 4K lbs. The E Class is actually one of the lighter cars between its segment siblings (at least the German ones).
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Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 182
Likes: 2
e550
Wow, you need to contact mb usa and inform them that their spec. sheets are wrong. Why would someone hang on a merc. forum and post pics of their BMW and comment on a model they do not own or plan to own.
Last edited by wanderfalke; Oct 25, 2014 at 04:45 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Not sure why you'd get butthurt over that (true to age old stereotypes, some MB guys remain a crotchety sensitive bunch I guess?). But wow, they do list it as such. Not something to be proud of really, that's a very heavy sedan and some 600 lbs heavier than some tested E350's at launch. Being that the weight is mostly at the front as that V8 TT must be a boat anchor, I imagine the weight ratio is very front bias.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 748
Likes: 27
From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
I'm with K-A. Cars need to weigh less than more for a multitude of good reasons. Lighter weight cars can still (and should) feel solid.
I believe the rwd E is ~4k lbs, which is two tons. Adding awd to a 550 pushes it to 4.2-4.4k lbs.
I believe the rwd E is ~4k lbs, which is two tons. Adding awd to a 550 pushes it to 4.2-4.4k lbs.
Last edited by Johnny Rad; Oct 26, 2014 at 01:57 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Yeah, heavier doesn't = more solid necessarily, anymore, as cars that are evolved properly are finally starting to get lighter yet still continuing to get stiffer (seems there was a culmination within the last few years). The RWD V6 E is actually a pretty respectable weight at least considering how it's lighter than the BMW 5 and maybe Audi A6.(might be wrong on the latter). Remaining N/A I'm sure can have a bit to assist with that, but not sure the engine weight figures so who knows.
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Likes: 40
E 350
Lets agree that there are people who like their car to feel as light and nimble as it can be and there are others who like their cars to feel heavier and solid. Its just personal preference. The actual weight would be different depending on the chassis / materials / build quality /engine and AWD specs as discussed above. There is nothing wrong in believing in one way or the other. To each their own.
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e550
Not sure why you'd get butthurt over that (true to age old stereotypes, some MB guys remain a crotchety sensitive bunch I guess?). But wow, they do list it as such. Not something to be proud of really, that's a very heavy sedan and some 600 lbs heavier than some tested E350's at launch. Being that the weight is mostly at the front as that V8 TT must be a boat anchor, I imagine the weight ratio is very front bias.
So I ask you point blank, why does a guy that does not own the current generation W212 or plan to own one in the future hang out here and criticize the E Class?
Last edited by wanderfalke; Oct 25, 2014 at 11:41 PM.
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Posts: 561
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From: New Mexico
2014 E350, 2012 SL550
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 182
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e550
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Thats Mr Crotchety to you. I do not hang out on the BMW forums and point out that the current 5 series has lost its way as a sports sedan. Poor implementation of electric steering with very little feed back, blown turbos, ect. First you jump my post telling me what my wife's car weights. Then you find out it weights what I stated, and shift to why that is even worse. Boat Anchor huh, well that pretend M5 you drive would only see the back of my car (991-911 C4S). Your mission seems to be reside here and ruin other MBWorld members ownership experience. I call them as I see them.
So I ask you point blank, why does a guy that does not own the current generation W212 or plan to own one in the future hang out here and criticize the E Class?
So I ask you point blank, why does a guy that does not own the current generation W212 or plan to own one in the future hang out here and criticize the E Class?
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 218
Likes: 1
2014 E550
My 2014 e550 4 matic was over 4500lbs with a full tank of gas without me in it. There is a scale up the street from me. For example my 2008 z06 with a half tank weighed 3210 , so it's pretty accurate.
Ohh yeah by the way I can't believe this thread has gone so long. Over a freaking honda with leather. Sheesh. ?!?!?
These acuras look horrible with their japaneesed emperor front end. It's terrible and I laugh when I see them on the road. Have you seen the zdx and the honduhh version of it? My god people , do we even consider looks anymore when purchasing or we just see the hunduhh or Acura badge and assume it's the best ? I swear these Acura designers should all be shot. Hon Duhh does truly take the award for having the all around boring and ugliest cars. And this is saying slot with Toyota out there but Honda is awful and Acura is even worst. Ohh man are the front ends ever so fugly.
Ohh yeah by the way I can't believe this thread has gone so long. Over a freaking honda with leather. Sheesh. ?!?!?
These acuras look horrible with their japaneesed emperor front end. It's terrible and I laugh when I see them on the road. Have you seen the zdx and the honduhh version of it? My god people , do we even consider looks anymore when purchasing or we just see the hunduhh or Acura badge and assume it's the best ? I swear these Acura designers should all be shot. Hon Duhh does truly take the award for having the all around boring and ugliest cars. And this is saying slot with Toyota out there but Honda is awful and Acura is even worst. Ohh man are the front ends ever so fugly.
Last edited by usamuscle; Oct 26, 2014 at 10:01 AM.
