E250 BlueTec Wagon
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Joined: Dec 2013
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From: Six Mile, SC
2018 SL450
E250 BlueTec Wagon
When will this wagon come to the USA? Does anyone have any news? At this point the 4-matic vs RWD doesn't matter much to me.
I'm always amazed that wonderful diesel wagons are withheld from our market.
I'm always amazed that wonderful diesel wagons are withheld from our market.
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From: Central Coast, CA
2020 X7 xDrive40i, 2016 X3 sDrive28i
I doubt the E250 wagon would ever make it to USA. There isn't a big market for wagon's in the USA. I'm already surprised MB continues to import the E class wagon and not in one but two engine choices (e350 and e63). Most other mfg's have stopped importing wagons. We wanted a 5 series or A6 wagon but both BMW and Audi have stopped importing wagons a few years ago.
Who knows if MB may stop importing the wagon soon as well. If you want a wagon, better grab one while they still import them, even with the M276 3.5 V6, its a pretty nice ride.
Who knows if MB may stop importing the wagon soon as well. If you want a wagon, better grab one while they still import them, even with the M276 3.5 V6, its a pretty nice ride.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Durham, NC
W126 1987 300SDL
I keep hearing that there is no market. But let's be honest, the problem is that very few people want to buy a wagon that gets 22 mpg combined. For the same EPA fuel economy (and far better in actual driving), we would all select the ML bluetec or the GL bluetec and have far better fuel economy and space. They don't sell wagons because they don't bring over a 50mpg E250 wagon. If they did, I believe sales would prove there is a market. It was the same folly when BMW brought over the 335d that achieved the same fuel economy as the 335i. Give people the option for performance and awesome mpg and it will sell.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 92
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From: Six Mile, SC
2018 SL450
I keep hearing that there is no market. But let's be honest, the problem is that very few people want to buy a wagon that gets 22 mpg combined. For the same EPA fuel economy (and far better in actual driving), we would all select the ML bluetec or the GL bluetec and have far better fuel economy and space. They don't sell wagons because they don't bring over a 50mpg E250 wagon. If they did, I believe sales would prove there is a market. It was the same folly when BMW brought over the 335d that achieved the same fuel economy as the 335i. Give people the option for performance and awesome mpg and it will sell.
I agree, fintail, I would take the C wagon with a Bluetec as well.
The success of the extremely modest, unadorned and unsophisticated Jetta Sportswagen Diesel gives the lie, I think, to the "Americans hate wagons" theory. If you build it, they will come!
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From: Central Coast, CA
2020 X7 xDrive40i, 2016 X3 sDrive28i
Ditto that! I think it significant that btesar owns a bluetec while thenew3 does not. The fuel efficiency, grunt (torque) and durability of the diesel engine makes a huge difference.
I agree, fintail, I would take the C wagon with a Bluetec as well.
The success of the extremely modest, unadorned and unsophisticated Jetta Sportswagen Diesel gives the lie, I think, to the "Americans hate wagons" theory. If you build it, they will come!
I agree, fintail, I would take the C wagon with a Bluetec as well.
The success of the extremely modest, unadorned and unsophisticated Jetta Sportswagen Diesel gives the lie, I think, to the "Americans hate wagons" theory. If you build it, they will come!
but last time I checked, wagon sales were about 2% of total E class sales. Very low numbers, and MB is the only german mfg to still import a wagon to the US. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a E250 BT wagon but just don't think it will happen.
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From: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
2024 GLS450
BMW has the 3 series wagon with a Diesel in the US now. I've seen several of them around - I'd love to see the sales of it provide some sort of proof to MB that it is worth selling in the US.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Central Coast, CA
2020 X7 xDrive40i, 2016 X3 sDrive28i
The 3 series and the A4/Allroad and Jetta wagons are in a different class. Much smaller.
In the E class segment, BMW doesn't import the 5 series wagon anymore, Audi doesn't import the A6 and have now based the Allroad off the much smaller A4 instead of the A6.
So for mid to large wagons, the only choice is the E class.
In the E class segment, BMW doesn't import the 5 series wagon anymore, Audi doesn't import the A6 and have now based the Allroad off the much smaller A4 instead of the A6.
So for mid to large wagons, the only choice is the E class.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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From: Six Mile, SC
2018 SL450
Look at this great write-up on the C-class wagon by Car and Driver.
We have over 300 million people, and our car market is much more vibrant than is the European market today. BMW sells a diesel wagon. Diesel now costs (at least here in Central MD) substantially less than 93-octane. It is hard to believe there are insufficient purchasers out there to cover the $1M costs of certifying the wagon with the EPA.
We have over 300 million people, and our car market is much more vibrant than is the European market today. BMW sells a diesel wagon. Diesel now costs (at least here in Central MD) substantially less than 93-octane. It is hard to believe there are insufficient purchasers out there to cover the $1M costs of certifying the wagon with the EPA.
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From: Central Coast, CA
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It's not diesel vs gas that's not selling wagons here in the US. Majority of the population likes SUV/CUV's, that's why wagons aren't selling. The number of available wagon models on the US market has been steadily declining.
With such a small market, even $1 million to certify may be a low return on investment so the mfg's aren't willing to spend it. If a mfg only sells 1000 wagons in a particular powertrain, that million dollar certification feel would be $1k per vehicle sold. That's quite a big chunk on a vehicle in the $20k to $30k range, less so on a $60k vehicle.
With such a small market, even $1 million to certify may be a low return on investment so the mfg's aren't willing to spend it. If a mfg only sells 1000 wagons in a particular powertrain, that million dollar certification feel would be $1k per vehicle sold. That's quite a big chunk on a vehicle in the $20k to $30k range, less so on a $60k vehicle.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 92
Likes: 13
From: Six Mile, SC
2018 SL450
It's not diesel vs gas that's not selling wagons here in the US. Majority of the population likes SUV/CUV's, that's why wagons aren't selling. The number of available wagon models on the US market has been steadily declining.
With such a small market, even $1 million to certify may be a low return on investment so the mfg's aren't willing to spend it. If a mfg only sells 1000 wagons in a particular powertrain, that million dollar certification feel would be $1k per vehicle sold. That's quite a big chunk on a vehicle in the $20k to $30k range, less so on a $60k vehicle.
With such a small market, even $1 million to certify may be a low return on investment so the mfg's aren't willing to spend it. If a mfg only sells 1000 wagons in a particular powertrain, that million dollar certification feel would be $1k per vehicle sold. That's quite a big chunk on a vehicle in the $20k to $30k range, less so on a $60k vehicle.
As for preference for a CUV/SUV, that may be in part a chicken-egg problem. CUV/SUV's are termed trucks for CAFE purposes. The move to SUV's was in large part a regulatory one -- mfg's couldn't produce too many low-mileage wagons as it would kill their car CAFE rating. But diesel wagons won't destroy the car cafe rating.
And the diesel I'm thinking of would likely be around 40-45K, not 20-30K.
So yes, I do think MB is very shortsighted here. Just my $0.02, of course.
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From: Central Coast, CA
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I agree with most of this comment. I do want to note, however, that the benefit (the sale of the car) may not be the only benefit. Keeping the customer in the MB fold (preventing "defection") is worth a lot -- much cheaper to keep a customer than to lure a new one -- typically more than $1000 cheaper.
As for preference for a CUV/SUV, that may be in part a chicken-egg problem. CUV/SUV's are termed trucks for CAFE purposes. The move to SUV's was in large part a regulatory one -- mfg's couldn't produce too many low-mileage wagons as it would kill their car CAFE rating. But diesel wagons won't destroy the car cafe rating.
And the diesel I'm thinking of would likely be around 40-45K, not 20-30K.
So yes, I do think MB is very shortsighted here. Just my $0.02, of course.
As for preference for a CUV/SUV, that may be in part a chicken-egg problem. CUV/SUV's are termed trucks for CAFE purposes. The move to SUV's was in large part a regulatory one -- mfg's couldn't produce too many low-mileage wagons as it would kill their car CAFE rating. But diesel wagons won't destroy the car cafe rating.
And the diesel I'm thinking of would likely be around 40-45K, not 20-30K.
So yes, I do think MB is very shortsighted here. Just my $0.02, of course.
The reason I bring up the $20k to $30k range is that that's where the majority of consumers shop. Also there aren't that many wagons in the US market.
Subary Outback, $20k to $30k
VW Jetta $20k to $30k
BMW 3 series $40k to $50k,
Audi A4 Allroad $40k to $50k
MB E class, $50k to $60k
That's about all the wagons I can think of.
as far as CUV/SUV, The typical consumer doesn't think or care about CAFE. They just think CUV/SUV as the hotter and more useful thing so they get it (partially influenced by mfg marketing).
Even if MB brings a E250 diesel wagon to US, I doubt it will be in the $40 to $5k range. Probably closer to $60k to start (even the E350 starts at nearly $59k)
As far as defection, I think MB is just hoping people would get in the ML or GLK instead of a wagon if they want diesel.
I would like to see MB replace the E350 wagon with a E250 diesel. But I don't think they will make diesel the only option. I think a good compromise would be to replace the 3.5 V6 with the new 3.0 TT V6. More power and in theory should give better MPG as well. Even with the 3.5, I've been able to get as high as 31mpg on long drives when I try to keep it close to 65 to 70 mph. I would say that's not bad for a 4400lb AWD wagon with a 3.5 V6. I would think with the smaller 3.0 TT V6 and the upcoming 9 speed transmission they could probably get closer to 35MPG or more.
