kash2014

I don't agree, mercedes dealers source their cars from the MB lease auctions, per the lease, owners are required to preform the recommended maintenance.

Buying a mercedes that is still under warranty that is eligible for an extended warranty is a pretty safe bet IMO

In terms of the w212, these aren't enterprise rental cars, 3rd and 4th owner beaters, these are usually 1 owner off lease 2 - 4 year old cars.

Also look at the demographics of the owner who buys a new 60k merc, comfortable middle class - wealthy, not the typical owner that skimps on an oil change to save money, especially when the car is still under warranty.

dirtyguido

I get it's a different mentality. And you have to understand this isn't some fly by night auction. Mercedes Benz Financial services sells 1000's of cars straight off lease through the dealer auctions. The caveat is that you need a dealer license to gain entry and or purchase a vehicle.

In my case, I had the vin - ran a carfax. One owner car purchased 20 mins away from me at Princeton Mercedes. Dealer serviced on carfax, and traded at Princeton BMW, also 10 mins away - and sold to my dealership at the auction from them. Sure it's still a risk, but it's a calculated one. And based on the price I paid - and any wholesale pricing, there is a built in risk discount. Any auction car will need something. It's called recon in the business. Like mine needed front brakes bc the rotors were warped. No biggie, all in a day's work. I also own a 5 bay shop, that does everything and specializes in domestic performance, so I'm equipped to deal with cars in a way the average person isn't.

I get your due diligence may be different than mine, and if that's what makes you comfortable then by all means. Besides it's how dealers make money, by absorbing the risk, doing what the car needs, and then remarketing the car to the public after adding their markup.

Take care,

George

mjsongin

I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

cbeck44

That helps explain your increased comfort with risk.

thefisch

I agree with kash's comment that risk is not that high with an off lease car still under factory warranty where maintenance is required and can be verified from reports. Even guido's car only needed brakes which you don't need to own a shop to get done at a reasonable price. With the savings, you should be able to handle any needed wear and tear expenses (brakes, tires, etc.) and still have some left. Anything major should be under warranty.

Retail shops exist for a reason - they are designed for your average customer to feel comfortable making a purchase. I fall into that category of an average customer and enjoy the perceived safety/comfort of the retail storefront that adds cost in the distribution chain. If you showed me the wholesale side, I wouldn't get that same feeling as would naturally be more cautious thinking I could get ripped off or make a mistake.

To me, it is fascinating to pull back the curtain and see what happens behind the scenes.

dirtyguido

For the average customer this is simply not an option anyway because they do not buy / sell enough vehicles to make it cost effective. The price of admission is just too great. To get and maintain a used car dealer license costs into the 5 figures yearly - between the bond, state licensing fees, dealer insurance, garage liability insurance, state licensing fees, dealer tag registration fees etc. More if you don't have a facility that the state and local authorities find suitable for the purpose. So for the average consumer who buys a vehicle every few years it's just not worth it.

I've made a pretty decent business brokering cars out of the auctions for people. Basically Tomorrow there are 500 MBFS units running in PA. I can bid against the MB dealers, and buy them for the same prices they can. They have a condition report and MOST are still under warranty. That's how I picked up my wife's 2012 c300 4matic sport - had a 4.9 condition report and 9700 miles, yes 9700. If the car is under the bumper to bumper warranty all you care about is the cosmetics and acccident / maintenance history. Anything currently wrong is MB's problem. I charge people $1000 over purchase price including auction fees to buy them a car. Which is still better than any deal they can find on the outside. Granted this isn't for everyone. You have to be willing to write a check to buy a car you have never seen or driven, and you have to trust the condition report etc, but it's catching on as a good alternative for a lot of people. I have a LOT of experience in the Jaguar world and several recommendations etc, so it helps with the trust factor.

I know a lot of dealers are secretive about the auctions and what they pay for cars etc, but I've kind of made a business out of the open book policy.

As far as my car, it was a greater risk, because my car having 63k miles is out of the 50k bumper to bumper warranty period, but between being able to arbitrate it if something was majorly wrong, the condition report, carfax etc it was a risk I was willing to take. I think I did well with it.

Take care,

George

stale-bread

George, I'd like to add you as a contact for my next vehicle purchase.

drsaab

I do the same. You meet all kinds of people and they must trust you well with such a large purchase so it is usually friends or there friends etc that get referred to you. It is hard sometimes to deal with people who look at the auction pricing and want the mint cleanest car for the lowest possible price on the auction price list. I basically say, this is my best guess of the selling price of this car based on condition etc. If You love the color/options and want to go higher or do you want to wait it out for a few more sales etc.

There is some crazy deals to be had but very rarely, looks like you got one and again that was with a large risk of having a out of warranty E class which turns off 85% of the people, even the enthusiasts on here.

Mostly in the auction it is you get what you pay for. But timing of being in the right place at the right time can help you every so often.

Most of these MB now do not get to the auction anyways, they get sold at MB off lease site before they hit the auction. I have got a couple from there for friends.

kash2014

What is the off lease site? I was under the impression the cars were turned into dealers and if the dealer has excess inventory they were shipped to the closest MBFS.

It would be interesting to understand how the process works.

dirtyguido

There are still plenty out there - MBFS is running 500 units today in PA.

As far as pricing I generally don't break it down to transactions for a potential customer because it creates the problem of them gravitating towards the lowest price like you said. While wanting the cleanest car of course.

MB will sometimes "pre auction" cars - just like BMW will. There's a website that's like ebay, but through the dealer auction site. Basically it has pics etc of each car, condition report bla bla and you can buy the car now for a fixed price that's usually close to the high end of wholesale. A medicore wholesale deal is still thousands less than an MB store will charge for the car.

I agree with my car being a pricing fluke, and yeah in general the auction is you get what you pay for, BUT without the substantial dealer markup. And I also said I think I am more willing to accept risk then most. The warranty was never a big thing with me - these cars are decently put together and don't seem to have major issues that aren't sorted by the time the warranty is up. Sure the airmatic suspension might need new struts at some point etc. But like I said earlier, I have the shop, access to wholesale parts, free labor (relatively speaking) etc. I also have my own star diag clone, so it's not the end of the world if the car needs something.

Take care,

George

cbeck44

Unfortunately as far as this threads topic, very few are '10/'11 E550's. I see only two for today.

dirtyguido

w212 E550's are a rare bird. I think it was stated that less than 5% of all w212 production was 550's. The thing is my car MSRP'd at 77k. You were DAMN near s class money at that point.

The fact that there are two on the run list today is actually surprising in a positive way, not in a negative one. Don't forget there have been something like 12 go through at every auction in the country in the last month and a half. If I wanted to print the e350's that have gone in that same time frame through I'd need half a ream of paper and a new ink cartridge.

Actually they are both in the post sale already:

2011 MERCEDES E550A 5.5L PAL SIL 2 8 GAS P 4X2 Y CD CV L 13,253 $42,250
2011 MERCEDES E550A 5.5L BLACK 2 8 GAS P 4X2 Y CD PC L 16,499 $43,000

Both RWD, LOW miles off lease cars.

Take care,

George

KEY08

^ Those are not cheap. If that is an auction price, I don't know how you could make any money on reselling them.

dirtyguido

An MB dealer will cpo them and price them in the low 50's high 40's. They routinely ask 42-43 for CPO cars with 50k+ on them.

99% chance these were bought by an MB dealer. They are too rich for most used car stores.

Take care,

George

cbeck44

I believe those are convertibles, not sedans.

cbeck44

That's because those two listed were cabriolets. They have averaged $39K at auction, $10K more the the sedan.

dirtyguido

I just noticed that. They are at least two door. So they aren't sedans.

Makes more sense as far as the pricing.

Take care,

George

KEY08

Thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense now.

cbeck44

Yeah, those prices freaked me out at first glance. Would have been a huge leap and put me out of the search for a 2011 sedan.

cbeck44

These are the E550 sedan sales from today. A little better price wise:

2010 MERCEDES E550W4 8G 4DSN P PS PB AC PN AWD 63,940 BLACK $21,600
2011 MERCEDES E550W4 8G 4DSN P PS PB AC PN AWD 14,502 BLACK $35,250

DubVBenz

Kash... do you just pay for a login for manheim? Are you also able to buy, or only browse?

dirtyguido

You can't pay for a visitor or guest manheim login.

You either have to be a licensed dealer - or work for one and have been listed on his auction account as a rep - which also gives you the ability to go to the auctions and buy and sell as well as online. (On behalf of that dealership).

OR you can have one of the above's username / password. Which also give you the ability to buy / sell in theory BUT as them. Anything you buy will be debited to their auction account and titled in their dealer's name.

Take care,

George

kash2014

No, a relative is a dealer and he gave me my own account credentials. If I find something I like, I have a couple of friends that are able to purchase for me.

For financing purposes, and such, I usually just find the cars on my own, and my manheim account is just to make sure I'm not getting jipped, cause I don't care for edmunds or kelly blue book.

I understand dealers have to make a profit/premium and I'm glad to pay it. I worked as a car salesman in college, and some of the used guys are some of the most unscrupulous people I've been around, they hose customers who are uneducated, those who really can't afford to get ripped off, once a customer starts talking about the payment they want, the numbers get manipulated, and people get ripped off without realizing it, that is why an account like manheim is invaluable to me

thefisch

In addition to finding the one sold above on 6/19 at Carmax (price dropped $1k to $32,998 since my post), I just got notification from them of another 2011 E550 for sale that appears to be the underlined 7/2 sale above. I signed up for alerts during my car search so I get an email each time they list one for sale. They have about 13 E550's nationwide right now. This one is a luxury model listed for $31,998 (marked up $4,500) and has P2, distronic, parktronic and faded wood issue but it out of warranty.

drsaab

$4500 is not quite accurate. You have to read between the lines.

Auction fee about $450
Shipping $200
Detail/pdr at minimum $200
Looks like new tires to me.. $800

so markup more like $2850