Arrie

AWD does not make the car stop better in snow in general but it can make a huge improvement in turning in slippery conditions. Pretty much all AWD cars turn better in snow compared to any FWD or RWD car.

All season tires perform in cold as well as they are made to do it. Nokian WRG3 is a so called all season tire but outperforms many winter tires in a test. They stay soft in cold.

And regardless of winter or all season Nokian usually gives way more miles from the tires compared to some well known big name tires.

Alex.currie44

The so called All Season is a three season tire, especially in your New England environment.
I drove for 46 yrs. in a similar environment in Ontario and whether a RWD or a 4WD car those tires do not have the ability to grip the road because the compound is harder.
An AS tire has a durometer of 25-30 on average which has an operating range of 41F - 95F. A winter tire will have a durometer of 20 and optimally operates down to 5F. Between 41 and 5 there is a heck of a drop off in performance on an AS tire. Even on a 2 WD, running just 2 snow tires on the rear gives away steering ability.
I clearly remember having this debate with the service manager when I got my first W124 in 1987. He shrugged and said I could follow a customer who also was saying he didn't need them and two days later couldn't steer out of slide on his 3 seasons, hit a curb hard and had a bill of about $3000 for parts and labour to fix the damage.
I sort of took his advice.
As noted in my post earlier, the softer winter compound is better on very wet roads and dry when the temp low. When there is standing water on the road a winter tire is much better than a 3 season.
The other problem is that too many folks run their AS's too long and when it snows look out.
Had I not had 4 matic and good rubber along with all the other MB systems, I would have had a head on last winter because a guy coming down a hill couldn't manage the curve and crossed over. I saw his car in town later that day and he wasn't far off the wear bars.
Winter is not a time to compromise your safety, the safety of others on the road and a good set of winter rubber is cheap insurance in my view.
Just sayin'.

Arrie

Some amazing non-studded / studded tire technology on the way.

Alex.currie44

Now that is cool!

thefisch

Looks like tires on James Bond's car.

Arrie

Will probably be priced accordingly too...

noka

...and will probably never see it in the US.

Gregg11_C300

Blizzak are the best snow tire. I've used them for the last 15 years in the worst Canadian and Wisconsin snow storms and they are amazing. Check the you tube video of all the snow tires being tested for acceleration and braking on a ice rink... Blizzak out performs every other tire in every test. Thus their highest price they command. I have WS80 on my E350 and it goes through snow like a 4-wheel drive truck.

looney100

From the tests I've seen, the Blizzaks and Xice are rated very similarly for ice and snow traction, but the XIce has lower rolling resistance and longer tread life. I've never seen a test recommending Blizzaks over the Michelins.

Arrie

Would you point me to the video you refer. I'm not able to find it.

looney100

FWIW, here's Consumer Reports' take on winter tires. The Xice tires are rated higher than the Nokians and Bridgstones.

Arrie

When was this comparison done?


Nokian has not made the R in a couple of years now. The winter tire model now is 8 and perhaps 7 is also still available.


The multi season one is WR3.


If this is a true recent comparison they compared the flag ship tires from other makers to Nokian already discontinued model.

ddeliber

I know, odd. the Xi3 is pretty new!

looney100

This comparison is a year old. Consumers Reports places the WR G3 in the performance winter category, rather than the "pure" winter category.
The WR G3 is their best rated performance winter tire.

Arrie

Well,
My intention was to bring out the fact that The Michelin Xi3 might not be the best winter tire you can buy.

Doing research in the net around this I find that Nokian is doing very bad job with advertising. Worse yet, it seems they have gone with very few dealers and try to keep it to themselves. (Reminds me of Sony trying to keep Beta to themselves and the world around developed VHS that put Sony Beta out of the business although it was by far better system to have at the time).

Tire Rack is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, tire sellers on the N.A. especially thru internet and Nokian should have teamed up with them but they probably are too small for that. It is so "funny" to see all the Tire Rack winter tire testing of all winter tires but none of the tests include Nokian tires. Obvious reason is that they do not want a tire in a test that would win the test but they do not sell it.

Luckily to some people who know the tires they can buy them for pricing today. If Tire Rack would sell them and test and find them even better than the best they now sell the Nokians would cost even more.

And the best part of this all for me is that I can by their superior summer tires cheaper than Michelins or Continentals, which the Nokian Zline outperforms in every way. But for this you need to read some German tire testing reports.

And the tire noise alone is just awesome improvement compared to Continental and Pirelli.

Gregg11_C300

Consumer reports is biased and based on random opinions - not facts. This is an unbiased real world TEST on ice.

looney100

Not at all true. Consumers Reports does not accept advertising money to avoid bias, and purchases and tests the vast majority of the items themselves using labs and instrumented tests.

noka

You are probably right on that but I cancelled my subscription long ago because every time I went to consult it, all I ever found was old news, about products long discontinued or otherwise on their way out. That was my experience anyway.

Arrie

Unbiased???

I think it is extremely biased when it has only four tire brands on it. And again, where is Nokian? Not good enough to test for tire rack?

Gregg11_C300

They carry 21 brands of tires - I'm sure they have nothing personal against Nokian - perhaps they don't deal with them because Nokian has some dealer specific agreements?

Arrie

It seem almost impossible to find winter tire tests that include Michelin, Bridgestone and Nokian tires but I found one from last year. This is an European tire test and it does not have the Nokian WRG3 in it as it does not have the Bridgestone's latest model either. But it has the Michelin Xi3.


Based on the information that I have found in the net for the Nokian WRG3 I can say it is far better tire compared to the R2 in handling on wet and dry pavement. It is not a winter tire as it is an all season tire but it outperforms a lot of winter tires in the tests.


Below link takes you to the test posted on Marathon Auto net site, which I believe is a tire dealer in Michigan.


http://www.marathonauto.com/userfile...R%20review.pdf

Arrie

Interesting video of making the ice driving world speed record.

Gregg11_C300

I'm from Wisconsin, I'm an Electrical Engineer - I'm not a tire salesman, nor am i brand loyal to ANYTHING. If a better car or tire comes out tomorrow I'm buying it. What I can tell you is this: On our roads, there are a ton of bridges; covered in ice. We frequently have to drive through slush, 3-4 inches of snow, etc... before plows come. My Blizzaks have worked flawlessly on 3 different cars: Benz E350, Honda Civic, and Ford Freestar mini-van. Each car with Blizzaks went through any condition thrown at it. With a heavier vehicle like an E-Class I can plow through snow better than I ever could in my Suburban in 4-wheel drive. For me, these are the best tires on ICE. Which is by far the most critical point in winter driving. I need assurance that I can go, and more importantly STOP - quickly if need be. The Blizzaks have never let me down in over 10 years of using them.

Relative to this video above those are STUDDED tires. Tires with studs are illegal on passenger cars in my state, and I'm pretty sure in most others as they damage the roads.

The video I posted previously was regular non studded tires performing on an ice rink with simple test of acceleration and stopping distance.

noka

Do you have a second set of wheels with snows mounted or do you swap tires on existing rims, and if so, what size rims? (I'm an electrical engineer too )

Gregg11_C300

I put my snow tires on my OEM rims, it only costs $50 to swap them so you can swap quite a few times before you can justify new rims. I haven't had any issues with salt damaging my wheels yet. I am however fairly diligent with getting my cars frequently washed in winter to keep the salt off.