Diesel cars in USA???
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Speakng for the US market
Yes, "diesels cost more to purchase", but they also have higher re-sale values which goes a long way to offsetting the purchase premium. Why they "don't appeal to more Americans" is baffling to me.
Perhaps a large percentage of North American drivers have little interest in conserving fuel ? They seem to be ignorant of the fact that one can drive 30% further on a gallon of diesel compared to a gallon of gasoline.
As for diesels costing more to service, this is not true. Virtually every taxi in Europe has a diesel engine, most of them Mercedes diesels. Taxi owners would NOT choose diesel if the engines did not only last longer and but also cost LESS to maintain over the life of the vehicle. In addition to producing a wide range of passenger vehicles with diesel options, Mercedes-Benz is also the largest manufacturer of commercial vehicles in the world - the vast majority are diesel powered !
Perhaps a large percentage of North American drivers have little interest in conserving fuel ? They seem to be ignorant of the fact that one can drive 30% further on a gallon of diesel compared to a gallon of gasoline.
As for diesels costing more to service, this is not true. Virtually every taxi in Europe has a diesel engine, most of them Mercedes diesels. Taxi owners would NOT choose diesel if the engines did not only last longer and but also cost LESS to maintain over the life of the vehicle. In addition to producing a wide range of passenger vehicles with diesel options, Mercedes-Benz is also the largest manufacturer of commercial vehicles in the world - the vast majority are diesel powered !
MB/DAG commercial vehicles are mostly large trucks, not cars. Are there any diesel taxis in US? I've never seen one, not even an American diesel.
The sole advantage to diesels is their higher MPG and that really doesn't matter to most Americans truth be known. The ones who do care about it, purchase the Asian and American economy cars that cost less to purchase and have much lower cost to own.
Why spend $10,000-30,000 more for a "luxury" car if you are looking to save money? Especially with gas at $1.28 per gal. and expected to come down soon.
As for resale, I would guess that diesels have less return on investment than gas in US. They are higher on used car market because they cost more to start with.
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None
The economics are much easier in Canada. The E250BT is priced lower than the E350, and last time I visited the service station to fill up, diesel was 13 cents/litre cheaper than gasoline.
Fuel economy in the E250 is incredible. It was an easy call, didn't even consider a 350 or 550. (In the market for an E63 for myself).
Fuel economy in the E250 is incredible. It was an easy call, didn't even consider a 350 or 550. (In the market for an E63 for myself).
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
Diesels,IMO,are beautifully suited for America's (and Canada's) wide open spaces.I've been driving them for 6 years now...with 90% of my miles having been traveled at 70mph.From the top of Mount Evans,Colorado (14,100 feet above sea level) to the flat,sea level stretch of I-95 from NC to FL...and in the -40F/-40C nights of Central Quebec...they've all performed flawlessly.Of course not all Americans (or Canadians) spend a lot of time at 70mph and that,IMO,is part of the problem.Diesels aren't particularly well suited for short commutes to the office or the supermarket.
Also,many Americans (and Canadians?) remember those horrible GM diesels of the '70s and the billowing black exhaust from the Volvos and Benzes of the 80's.
Also,many Americans (and Canadians?) remember those horrible GM diesels of the '70s and the billowing black exhaust from the Volvos and Benzes of the 80's.
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
Diesels,IMO,are beautifully suited for America's (and Canada's) wide open spaces.I've been driving them for 6 years now...with 90% of my miles having been traveled at 70mph.From the top of Mount Evans,Colorado (14,100 feet above sea level) to the flat,sea level stretch of I-95 from NC to FL...and in the -40F/-40C nights of Central Quebec...they've all performed flawlessly.Of course not all Americans (or Canadians) spend a lot of time at 70mph and that,IMO,is part of the problem.Diesels aren't particularly well suited for short commutes to the office or the supermarket.
Also,many Americans (and Canadians?) remember those horrible GM diesels of the '70s and the billowing black exhaust from the Volvos and Benzes of the 80's.
Also,many Americans (and Canadians?) remember those horrible GM diesels of the '70s and the billowing black exhaust from the Volvos and Benzes of the 80's.
I must disagree with your statement about diesel suitability for short commutes to the office or supermarket. Diesel cars show a bigger benefit over gasoline engines in fuel mileage during city driving with frequent stops. This is because of the way higher torque the engine gives with low rpm meaning you don't need to overly gas it up to get going like you do with the gasoline engine car.
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
I get to Quebec (Montreal and points north) on a semi regular basis.I'm always struck by the fact that I see more Bluetecs,TDIs and "d"s in 6 hours of traveling Autoroutes 55 & 10 than I see in a month traveling the roads of NYC and Boston (which I do regularly).
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
When I say that I'm thinking more along the lines of long term longevity.As you surely know diesels take longer to reach optimum operating temps than do gassers...diesels run "cooler".And "cooler" is seldom a good thing for any internal combustion engine.In the long term,at least.
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
When I say that I'm thinking more along the lines of long term longevity.As you surely know diesels take longer to reach optimum operating temps than do gassers...diesels run "cooler".And "cooler" is seldom a good thing for any internal combustion engine.In the long term,at least.
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From: Southern California
E350 ml350
All I know is my local MB mechanic, who used to run the service dept at a nearby stealership, has gone totally diesel with his family's cars (4 diesels).....and that's enough endorsement for me.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Low cost to him
Glad there are people who like diesels, but lots of people don't and don't want them. It's all a matter of choice.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: East part of Texas
2017 CLS550
I went through this exercise of diesel vs gas three years ago when I bought my ML350. I did the pro/con thing and the gas version won out. Diesel motors are known for longevity with some people saying it takes 30,000 miles to break them in totally. I put on 8,000 miles a year on my cars and trade when the warranty runs out so "longevity" was not a factor. Ditto gas mileage for the same reason. I live in the sticks and seldom venture on interstates where a diesel eats up big chunks of highway, rather, I drive 90% country roads.
Besides these factors, I also do not tow or haul anything. Although the gas version and diesel were rated about the same for tow weights, I realize the diesel tows much more effortlessly. But again, it was a non factor for me. Also, at the time at least, diesel was much more expensive than premium, not to mention the additional $1500 increase on the sticker price for diesel.
So, why do I want a diesel this time around, especially if I trade for an Eclass? Because in 50 years of driving I have never owned one and my curiosity has the best of me. Stupid reason I know but has anyone purchased a diesel just to try it?
Besides these factors, I also do not tow or haul anything. Although the gas version and diesel were rated about the same for tow weights, I realize the diesel tows much more effortlessly. But again, it was a non factor for me. Also, at the time at least, diesel was much more expensive than premium, not to mention the additional $1500 increase on the sticker price for diesel.
So, why do I want a diesel this time around, especially if I trade for an Eclass? Because in 50 years of driving I have never owned one and my curiosity has the best of me. Stupid reason I know but has anyone purchased a diesel just to try it?
Super Member
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From: Minneapolis, MN/Breckenridge, CO
2010 E550 4Matic Sport P2
Diesel quality, cost, and biggest being fewer model and feature offerings put me out of the market (4matic was an absolute must for me).
I have had a few diesel trucks and definitely see the benefits, cold weather also does play a role as diesel is harder to start in severe sub zero environments....
I have had a few diesel trucks and definitely see the benefits, cold weather also does play a role as diesel is harder to start in severe sub zero environments....
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Diesels? We don't need no stinking diesels. Sorry, couldn't resist. This is a parody of the line from movie Sierra Madre. Actual line is: "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges" for those who aren't familiar with it.
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Diesel quality, cost, and biggest being fewer model and feature offerings put me out of the market (4matic was an absolute must for me).
I have had a few diesel trucks and definitely see the benefits, cold weather also does play a role as diesel is harder to start in severe sub zero environments....
I have had a few diesel trucks and definitely see the benefits, cold weather also does play a role as diesel is harder to start in severe sub zero environments....
Cold weather operability is not a problem.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
There is so much misinformation on diesels !
The Japanese manufacturers of Hybrids have been especially active is spreading misinformation via printed advertisements; Toyota has probably been the most aggressive with full page anti-diesel ads in magazines such as National Geographic.
Last edited by DerekACS; Jul 24, 2015 at 12:42 AM.
Member
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From: RI
2020 GLE 450
Got my A6 TDI in August 2013 and was immediately "hooked" on diesel for all the reasons mentioned previously. Got my wife into an ML350 BT less than a year later. Not going back to gas anytime soon...
Super Member
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From: Minneapolis, MN/Breckenridge, CO
2010 E550 4Matic Sport P2
I wish I could have found a diesel 4matic. That would have been my first pick.
Opinion on diesels and cold weather starting where based on several trucks I owned. I don't doubt the Mercedes fired right up though. I feel the newest releases of vehicles have resolved many of the issues, however it still warranted mention as I DID consider it personally.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
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From: Maricopa, AZ
2012 S63, 2013 E350 Bluetec
I know recently that the price of diesel was higher than gasoline in the US, but not sure what happened, but yesterday in Arizona, diesel was $.50 cheaper than the lowest priced gasoline, and today here in Los Angeles, diesel is $1.00 less than the cheapest gasoline.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
I know recently that the price of diesel was higher than gasoline in the US, but not sure what happened, but yesterday in Arizona, diesel was $.50 cheaper than the lowest priced gasoline, and today here in Los Angeles, diesel is $1.00 less than the cheapest gasoline.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2015
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From: Sweden
Mercedes E 200 CDI Elegance
Yes, another diesel myth dispelled. I have yet to read of any MB W212 diesel owner complaining about hard starting in sub-zero temperatures.
There is so much misinformation on diesels !
The Japanese manufacturers of Hybrids have been especially active is spreading misinformation via printed advertisements; Toyota has probably been the most aggressive with full page anti-diesel ads in magazines such as National Geographic.
There is so much misinformation on diesels !
The Japanese manufacturers of Hybrids have been especially active is spreading misinformation via printed advertisements; Toyota has probably been the most aggressive with full page anti-diesel ads in magazines such as National Geographic.
Now Kia is bigger than Toyota in Sweden for example, and that is beacause Kia has understand that good Diesel engines are very importent.
We don't care about gasoline Hybrids, we drive Diesels.
Toyota has not understand that yet..
Last edited by E 200 CDI; Jul 24, 2015 at 07:08 PM.
Junior Member
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From: Southern California
E350 ml350
It isn't always this far of a spread, but in my area gas is nearly always more. A full buck is crazy though.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
So the diesel is at the same price level as most of the country. It is the gasoline that has been jacked up probably by taxes. They cannot do this with diesel as the trucking industry would go nuts over it. Then, if the regular was $3.89 then premium had to be something like $4.10?
It is no brainer what type of engine should be used in California. If we take an E350 gasoline model that gives you 26 MPG on highway it means cost / mile is 15.8 cents.
E350 with a diesel engine gives you 38 MPG that equals to 7.5 cents / mile.
Diesel car cost / mile is only half of the gasoline car cost / mile. And in city traffic the difference is even bigger as the fuel mileage difference gets bigger.
California is what Europe used to be and somewhat still is with the fuel price difference between gasoline and diesel. Wonder when people in that state wake up and start buying diesel cars...
Last edited by Arrie; Jul 25, 2015 at 09:31 AM.
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
Unfortunately, the reality is, as El Cid stated above in post #26:
"higher MPG.....really doesn't matter to most Americans."
This seems to be especially so with luxury car buyers who for the most part want the largest HP gas engine that they can possibly afford. In terms of conserving fuel and reducing emissions, the wasteful attitudes of most North American drivers stand in contrast to Europe.
"higher MPG.....really doesn't matter to most Americans."
This seems to be especially so with luxury car buyers who for the most part want the largest HP gas engine that they can possibly afford. In terms of conserving fuel and reducing emissions, the wasteful attitudes of most North American drivers stand in contrast to Europe.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: West Central Florida
2011 E550 P2 4M Sedan
Never owned a diesel myself. Some of my impressions of diesels are old stigmas. I remember 20 years ago that only a few stations offered diesel fuel so it was harder to find. I also remember driving through the clouds of black smoke from diesels in front of me trying to quickly press the recirculate switch (still see that happen sometimes but not nearly as often).
Today, I know many friends who have diesels and none of those old stigmas still apply. Saving on fuel is great especially if you drive a bunch of miles and fuel is more expensive in your part of the country. Most people don't look at mpg, they look at how much they pay at the pump. Regular gas is 10-20 cents cheaper than diesel in my area right now and most will not want a diesel because they see the fuel as more expensive. They don't have the brain cells to do the math and factor in mpg.
But the gas savings are always not enough for everyone. I drove a Prius for 8 years a never got below 45mpg and often hit the high 50's. I spent $600-800 a year on gas. My first year with my E550 I spent $1,400 on gas driving my normal average amount of miles. The smile on my face when I drive my car is worth every penny.
Today, I know many friends who have diesels and none of those old stigmas still apply. Saving on fuel is great especially if you drive a bunch of miles and fuel is more expensive in your part of the country. Most people don't look at mpg, they look at how much they pay at the pump. Regular gas is 10-20 cents cheaper than diesel in my area right now and most will not want a diesel because they see the fuel as more expensive. They don't have the brain cells to do the math and factor in mpg.
But the gas savings are always not enough for everyone. I drove a Prius for 8 years a never got below 45mpg and often hit the high 50's. I spent $600-800 a year on gas. My first year with my E550 I spent $1,400 on gas driving my normal average amount of miles. The smile on my face when I drive my car is worth every penny.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
Unfortunately, the reality is, as El Cid stated above in post #26:
"higher MPG.....really doesn't matter to most Americans."
This seems to be especially so with luxury car buyers who for the most part want the largest HP gas engine that they can possibly afford. In terms of conserving fuel and reducing emissions, the wasteful attitudes of most North American drivers stand in contrast to Europe.
"higher MPG.....really doesn't matter to most Americans."
This seems to be especially so with luxury car buyers who for the most part want the largest HP gas engine that they can possibly afford. In terms of conserving fuel and reducing emissions, the wasteful attitudes of most North American drivers stand in contrast to Europe.
Well, I didn't mean just luxury car buyers but in general. But the fact is that there isn't many diesel car models to choose from either. For a "non-luxury" family car it may be VW only that sells diesels? Is there someone else?
They should do some ads educating people about the fuel cost / mile and get people's heads away from just thinking about the price of a gallon. And in California there should not be even education needed as it seems diesel is way cheaper / gallon than gasoline.
I don't think it is the wasteful attitudes of American drivers either. Diesel cars just have not been on the market here as gasoline price has been so low. And the old diesel myths still weight lots in the scale, myths that have nothing to do with the reality today.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
Unfortunately, old diesel myths do still exist, especially in the US.
