Fuel question - Ethanol or non-Ethanol?
10-06-2015, 05:25 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
As long as the agri-business, ethanol refiners and railroads control Congress, we will have ethanol in gas in US. Right now it is possible to find non-ethanol gas, but it is often hard to find and/or far more expensive than even 93 octane. At least in South Carolina.
Ethanol actually increases water in gasoline, which in turn creates problems. Fortunately most auto engines are big enough to withstand it, unlike marine motors, lawn equipment, etc.
Incidentally, I live 15 miles from a major pipeline terminal with multiple "brands" of gasoline facilities. The railroad brings in 250 tank cars per week to add ethanol to the tank trucks as they leave the facility. Some trucks leave with pure ethanol to add to gasoline distribution facilities in other locations.
Ethanol is bad. Period.
Ethanol actually increases water in gasoline, which in turn creates problems. Fortunately most auto engines are big enough to withstand it, unlike marine motors, lawn equipment, etc.
Incidentally, I live 15 miles from a major pipeline terminal with multiple "brands" of gasoline facilities. The railroad brings in 250 tank cars per week to add ethanol to the tank trucks as they leave the facility. Some trucks leave with pure ethanol to add to gasoline distribution facilities in other locations.
Ethanol is bad. Period.
10-08-2015, 10:26 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
Dude,
You are just wrong.
I work for one of the largest service station brands in the country, and was involved in our change to ethanol gasolines. Prior to the government mandates in Canada, the only major brand with an ethanol gasoline was Sunoco.
And no one adds ethanol for just the winter. Moving to ethanol requires expensive tank cleaning prior to conversion and the conversion must be monitored closely because mixing ethanol and non-ethanol gasoline improperly can result in off-spec, unsaleable gasoline. This is not a hassle that operators want to have twice a year.
Trust me when I say that ethanol + water=bad news. I know this through years of experience in the industry.
Ethanol is not necessary nor used in Canada to improve cold weather operability of gasoline.
You are just wrong.
I work for one of the largest service station brands in the country, and was involved in our change to ethanol gasolines. Prior to the government mandates in Canada, the only major brand with an ethanol gasoline was Sunoco.
And no one adds ethanol for just the winter. Moving to ethanol requires expensive tank cleaning prior to conversion and the conversion must be monitored closely because mixing ethanol and non-ethanol gasoline improperly can result in off-spec, unsaleable gasoline. This is not a hassle that operators want to have twice a year.
Trust me when I say that ethanol + water=bad news. I know this through years of experience in the industry.
Ethanol is not necessary nor used in Canada to improve cold weather operability of gasoline.
You say I am wrong and I say you are wrong.
In the winter climate world alcohol (mostly ethanol) is used exclusively in winter time to keep water in fuel from freezing in the fuel lines in cars. It is just awesome that in your area in Canada with the business you are with the fuels it is not used for that purpose.
I do find internet writing that says a major Canadian fuel supplier mixes ethanol in even the highest octane fuel for the winter but it is obvious you won't believe this so I leave this discussion.
For the basic chemistry I can tell you that alcohol with the "-OH" component really attracts the water as it makes it water soluble. This is a good thing as the water in gas gets mixed with the alcohol and burned away thru the engine.
You claim that you have never added any additive in your car and have not had any fuel line freezing problems. You are a very lucky person as most people in the northern countries have to add alcohol in their cars to keep water from freezing in their tanks and fuel lines.
I just happen to believe that in Canada this additive mixing is done without you knowing it even when you are in the industry.
10-09-2015, 09:13 AM
#29
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2010 E550 P2 w/AMG Sport Package + Pano, 2015 Nissan Pathfinder
I never even look into the option of either or. Good information in this thread maybe I'll look into it going forward.
10-10-2015, 09:34 AM
#31
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Non-ethanol premium in my locality is 50 cents a gal. more than ethanol premium. Only premium non-ethanol is available.
I use the high priced stuff in my outdoor equipment.
I use the high priced stuff in my outdoor equipment.
10-10-2015, 08:39 PM
#32
You say I am wrong and I say you are wrong.
In the winter climate world alcohol (mostly ethanol) is used exclusively in winter time to keep water in fuel from freezing in the fuel lines in cars. It is just awesome that in your area in Canada with the business you are with the fuels it is not used for that purpose.
I do find internet writing that says a major Canadian fuel supplier mixes ethanol in even the highest octane fuel for the winter but it is obvious you won't believe this so I leave this discussion.
For the basic chemistry I can tell you that alcohol with the "-OH" component really attracts the water as it makes it water soluble. This is a good thing as the water in gas gets mixed with the alcohol and burned away thru the engine.
You claim that you have never added any additive in your car and have not had any fuel line freezing problems. You are a very lucky person as most people in the northern countries have to add alcohol in their cars to keep water from freezing in their tanks and fuel lines.
I just happen to believe that in Canada this additive mixing is done without you knowing it even when you are in the industry.
In the winter climate world alcohol (mostly ethanol) is used exclusively in winter time to keep water in fuel from freezing in the fuel lines in cars. It is just awesome that in your area in Canada with the business you are with the fuels it is not used for that purpose.
I do find internet writing that says a major Canadian fuel supplier mixes ethanol in even the highest octane fuel for the winter but it is obvious you won't believe this so I leave this discussion.
For the basic chemistry I can tell you that alcohol with the "-OH" component really attracts the water as it makes it water soluble. This is a good thing as the water in gas gets mixed with the alcohol and burned away thru the engine.
You claim that you have never added any additive in your car and have not had any fuel line freezing problems. You are a very lucky person as most people in the northern countries have to add alcohol in their cars to keep water from freezing in their tanks and fuel lines.
I just happen to believe that in Canada this additive mixing is done without you knowing it even when you are in the industry.
I can guarantee you that ethanol was not used previously without my knowledge. Part of the work I was involved in was sourcing ethanol as the legislation was coming into force, and relabelling our service stations to say that the fuel would now contain ethanol.
You claim to have reliable sources saying that ethanol was widely used in Canada prior to being mandated. If you've got reliable sources, I would love to see them.
10-11-2015, 08:31 AM
#33
Despite my lack of enthusiasm for ethanol-blended fuels, they'll serve you just fine as long as you don't leave them in the tank for extended periods. There is some reduced fuel economy, but you'll never notice it.
10-11-2015, 12:18 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm not saying that ethanol isn't used in the winter, or in Premium gasoline. It is. My point is that it isn't there to help with water, because it just doesn't.
I can guarantee you that ethanol was not used previously without my knowledge. Part of the work I was involved in was sourcing ethanol as the legislation was coming into force, and relabelling our service stations to say that the fuel would now contain ethanol.
You claim to have reliable sources saying that ethanol was widely used in Canada prior to being mandated. If you've got reliable sources, I would love to see them.
I can guarantee you that ethanol was not used previously without my knowledge. Part of the work I was involved in was sourcing ethanol as the legislation was coming into force, and relabelling our service stations to say that the fuel would now contain ethanol.
You claim to have reliable sources saying that ethanol was widely used in Canada prior to being mandated. If you've got reliable sources, I would love to see them.
To my knowledge I have not stated that I have reliable sources for alcohol use in Canadian winter gasoline but I know as a fact from some other countries where it was and still is used solely for keeping fuel lines and pumps from freezing.
Alcohol is absolutely the best and easiest and cheapest way to do this as, like it has been stated earlier even by you, alcohol attracts water. It mixes in water and keeps it from freezing in the fuel tank. And the water that the mostly ethanol mixed in gasoline attracts is not from outside of the fuel tank. It is in the fuel that was pumped in the car.
