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I ran across the same issue with the bottom cup being rusted in to the pocket on the lower control arm.
Before I attack the other side, has anyone found a good way to remove the lower spring seat from the arm?
The Sawzall and big *** chisel method wears you out.
Buying a new control arm would solve the problem of trying to remove the rust seized spring seat. FCP Euro lists a brand new MB control arm for $95 plus tax. Only you can decide if this is a value proposition in regards to time and aggravation saved by not having to muscle the spring seat out. If my job had the same complications as you've listed, I might just spring for a new control arm to save myself some aggravation and exhaustion.
2013 E350 Facelift (Japan Import) 2007 E350 Elegance Wagon, 2014 E350 Wagon facelift model Jap Model
Originally Posted by Maduro
sooooooooo, still have the issue after replacing both bags.
Very slow, takes a few days, but the car will start to slightly sag on the rear right hand side and eventually the entire rear of the car will hunker down low with the rear right remaining lower than the other side.
Any clues where I should look next? I'm thinking the valve block (which appears fine from the outside) or the line itself somewhere along the run?
Question, could a bad strut itself be the culprit in this situation? ie can the strut slowly compress if it's bad?
Can I ask why Americans always cover their licence plates in pics? I see this a lot on many forums and facebook pages I'm on...can you look up where someone lives by using their plates? ( I know Govt authorities of course have this ability)
Can I ask why Americans always cover their licence plates in pics? I see this a lot on many forums and facebook pages I'm on...can you look up where someone lives by using their plates? ( I know Govt authorities of course have this ability)
One would need access to official law enforcement only databases to look up your personal information by the license plate. There have been many instances of unscrupulous Department of Motor Vehicle employees that sell private identifying information for someone willing to pay for that illegal service. I think it is more of a protection of privacy issue for those that cover their plate information from the internet.
Can I ask why Americans always cover their licence plates in pics? I see this a lot on many forums and facebook pages I'm on...can you look up where someone lives by using their plates? ( I know Govt authorities of course have this ability)
Sprinter, red sports car, agate grey sports car, e350 Wagon
Originally Posted by Raj1471
Buying a new control arm would solve the problem of trying to remove the rust seized spring seat. FCP Euro lists a brand new MB control arm for $95 plus tax. Only you can decide if this is a value proposition in regards to time and aggravation saved by not having to muscle the spring seat out. If my job had the same complications as you've listed, I might just spring for a new control arm to save myself some aggravation and exhaustion.
Thanks for the link.
The new control arm than opens up another potential series of issues, the least of which is a alignment job.
and then, while it is on the rack..........
I was going to complain about the dealer charging that one poster $1695.00. But after running into the rusted lower control arm issue (seizing the lower spring seat), I guess I can't complain too much.
My biggest problem was getting the old spring un-seated. The bottom of my air-springs were black, so I thought it was part of the lower control arm. After reading this thread, I realized I could push up on that and after 48hrs of penetrating oil soaking in, I was able to pop it out with a bottle jack while holding the wheel hub down with my tractor. Using the chewing gum trick to keep the new spring deflated, and holding the wheel hub down with my tractor (to maximize the space), the new spring carefully fit in with no issue. I think when I go to do the left rear, I will saturate with penetrating oil, and let it soak in, while continuing to use the car for a week or so. Hopefully it will loosen up with use.
This is really embarrassing. I didn't check the parts ahead of time, but it appear Arnott mislabeled a left side air spring as a right side. I had things all done, too, even used the chewing gum trick.
If this happens, there isn't enough air line to go to the 2 o'clock position vs the 4 or 5 o'clock where it should be. Very frustrating, although so far they've been fairly responsive. Just needed this done today...
aaaaaand it appears my replacement Arnott bag blew out (!) on a short trip to the store. Everything connected ok, heard a huge CRACK, got the "malfunction" message in the display. Inspected things, etc., everything looks fine. Will read codes when it's not 100 degrees outside.
Diagnosis from indy was bad compressor ("too weak") and relay, but the valve block and air springs are fine. Did NOT confirm that they checked the air lines (guy was supposedly gone for the day). They want $1500 to repair.
Diagnosis seems weird because the purpose of the valve block is to keep a failed compressor from letting the car fall (which it did while I was driving), right?
@konigstiger anyone else have an idea? Not eager to buy a part and then have to get 10 more repairs done.
Diagnosis from indy was bad compressor ("too weak") and relay, but the valve block and air springs are fine. Did NOT confirm that they checked the air lines (guy was supposedly gone for the day). They want $1500 to repair.
Diagnosis seems weird because the purpose of the valve block is to keep a failed compressor from letting the car fall (which it did while I was driving), right?
@konigstiger anyone else have an idea? Not eager to buy a part and then have to get 10 more repairs done.
What made the big noise??? Compressors going bad do not make any noise, they just silently die.
You may have lost the air tank pressure safety valve but if your car goes low because the air tank does not have pressure it will go down in both ends, not just in rear.
What made the big noise??? Compressors going bad do not make any noise, they just silently die.
You may have lost the air tank pressure safety valve but if your car goes low because the air tank does not have pressure it will go down in both ends, not just in rear.
Should've been clear: I have a wagon, so just air suspension in the back.
Should've been clear: I have a wagon, so just air suspension in the back.
My bad, forgot the wagon factor....
Check the air tank and furthermore, if you have any pressure in it. If you have a scanner you can read the only pressure sensor the system has. If no pressure then compressor bad.
Check the air tank and furthermore, if you have any pressure in it. If you have a scanner you can read the only pressure sensor the system has. If no pressure then compressor bad.
Got it. For some reason, I thought the block was basically to keep a bad compressor from letting all the air out of the system (among other things). Thanks for the help!
The OEM pumps are all $600+ so the quote I got of $1500 probably isn't that bad, just want to be sure they checked the air lines, etc.
Wow. So, shop replaced compressor. First compressor they tried was bad (it was Arnott, assumed it was MB). Second (also Arnott) is OK.
ONLY TO FIND that the Arnott bag I just replaced on the RH side was bad.
So, what do I do? I am fairly certain the old compressor was fine, at least good enough, as it was running. And after all this, I'm $1500 poorer and the problem remains.
Can I go back to them? I did authorize the compressor replacement but that was because they said everything else was fine.
Brutal. Call Arnott. They seem like a responsible outfit who cares about their product -- utterly uncommon 'these days'. Explain all of this. Have they seen anything like this happen before? Any TSB's on these specific components / lots / device serial #'s etc. ? See if they can do anything for you & try to bring some humanity into all of this instead of you getting hammered... Be polite and constructive and reasonable while firmly putting these problems back where they belong... . and see if the shop will cut you some slack given all the ridiculousness.
Wow. So, shop replaced compressor. First compressor they tried was bad (it was Arnott, assumed it was MB). Second (also Arnott) is OK.
ONLY TO FIND that the Arnott bag I just replaced on the RH side was bad.
So, what do I do? I am fairly certain the old compressor was fine, at least good enough, as it was running. And after all this, I'm $1500 poorer and the problem remains.
Can I go back to them? I did authorize the compressor replacement but that was because they said everything else was fine.
I would go back and give them hell. What do you have to lose...?
Should have been easy to check if the air spring leaks. I made the little device in the picture to check if air spring is bad. Was also brand-new Arnott front strut in a S550 that did leak and FCPeuro replaced it very quickly.
Brutal. Call Arnott. They seem like a responsible outfit who cares about their product -- utterly uncommon 'these days'. Explain all of this. Have they seen anything like this happen before? Any TSB's on these specific components / lots / device serial #'s etc. ? See if they can do anything for you & try to bring some humanity into all of this instead of you getting hammered... Be polite and constructive and reasonable while firmly putting these problems back where they belong... . and see if the shop will cut you some slack given all the ridiculousness.
Yeah, they sent out the replacement. They figured the shop would be good for it. So I'll go tomorrow, pick up the car + part, and that will be that. What garbage.
I figured this would save time/money, and now I'm out of both.
Saga continues. In Jan 2022 I installed a new Arnott air block. Guess what? Already dead. I wondered about this since I could inflate suspension from scan tool, but couldn't deflate before I took it into the shop.
At this point, even though there's a price advantage (and Arnott has been very good about warranty), I'm not sure I'd go with them for anything right now. Indy shop doing the work has same opinion based on my many recent failures.
2014 E350 Wagon Passenger rear air spring deflating overnight, rear suspension system sensors rebalancing, car sitting oh so Low... Now I know why I spent extra on that low profile floor jack.
Unlike a number of the 'professional' videos, I didn't remove any linkages or componentry. Went total cowboy on it and was glad I did -- it all worked out great. HUGE time saver reading this thread. Thank you all.
OE air spring removal
As many have said, the base of the OE unit is hopelessly stuck in place on the control arm. I used a bottle jack set on a wood block base to dislodge it as follows: To prevent the control arm from rising as the bottle jack extended, I fit a coat hanger wire around the wood block base and ran it through the control arm cover steel eyelet to the hold the entire suspension arm down as the jack piston rose. As I pumped away on the jack, the control arm rose about half way through its full travel, and being restrained by the now fully stretched coat hanger wire, the entire air spring suddenly broke loose from the control arm. It just popped out quickly once the pressure was high enough from the jack piston on its base. The dislodged OE unit compressed enough to come out easily with a hole drilled into its side as suggested to make sure the air could escape. I removed a lot of dirt and debris from the mounting cavity once the air spring was out, followed by brake cleaner and a coat of rust inhibiting paint.
Refit
I used Poster Putty to seal the Arnott factory default air spring fitting -- this helped it stay compressed (somewhat) as I guided it into place. Discarded it per Arnott and fitted the air hose directly to the unit after removing the MB OE air hose fittings. Easy, just be patient and careful to follow the directions exactly and you'll be fine.
I used the bottle jack once again, this time to push down the control arm to create more space through which to guide the new air spring into position. I wedged wood above/below the jack as follows: 1) under the jack to protect the hub assembly and to create a stable platform for the bottle jack, and 2), above the jack, on the business end, so piston pressure would be directed into the board in the top of the wheel well and not into the wheel well itself (If I had it to do over, I'd put a thick cloth around the upper board to make sure the edges of the wedged wood didn't mar or tear up the wheel well. That didn't happen though -- the board didn't mar or nick the upper wheel well, but a thick cloth would be a very smart precaution.) I cranked on the jack until the control arm moved down a good 4 or 5 inches -- i'm guessing -- the point at which I heard the upper board start to crack , but the jack created just enough space to squirrel the new part into place. Without this hack, it would have been difficult (tried that for about 1min and gave up -- the space was just too small to get the air spring through without tons of grief and overhandling the new part). This 'jack hack' made all the difference.
Test drive
Made sure the air spring was installed as best as I could, the top and bottom properly seated per Arnott's directions, but there's not much you can do other than line it up just right top and bottom because you have zero leverage / working room to seat the air spring -- esp. if you are working in a driveway with jack stands. So, I double checked everything, buttoned everything up, torqued the wheels to spec, started the car, and it gave the familiar 'vehicle rising' message ... as the car began to rise, it paused for moment, then I heard a loud 'pop' which was of course the air spring unit settling down into its control arm molded pocket. Sound was a quick and loud snap, after which the car continued to rise until it leveled. Test drive was successful, no issues. Will let sit overnight to make sure, but all went fine. Will do driver's side per manuf. recommendations another day -- when it's cooler outside.
Follow-up: car driven hundreds since this repair and no issues whatsoever. As stated, I only replaced the right / passenger side, so, I am deciding whether or not to do the driver's side which is not having any (known) problems. Part manuf. says replace both, I say I must do what is best for our situation with careful assessment of overall risk and safety.. Car is my wife's daily driver, long commute, so, I need to pick my battles wisely since I only have the weekends to do the work. That said, like everyone here, I want to do the best thing for the car -- it's a truly awesome well-crafted machine.
Update: Passenger side Arnott rear air spring great no issues some four months later, now however, driver's side original OEM rear air spring now losing air @ ~175k mi. Happy it lasted this long. Same symptoms, losing air over time over shorter and shorter duration ... Unlike passenger side, driver's side air spring was massively stuck to control arm -- could support entire weight of car with air spring sitting only on bottle jack (!)... was about to get all medieval on it, then had the idea of simply upgrading my bottle jack hack rig from a coat hanger to a heavy duty cargo strap ... took some time and care (put largest bolt I could find through 4"x4" base block, secured the strap to bolt, voila). OE air spring eventually came loose after 6 or 7 failed attempts... need to ensure bottle jack was applying max pressure at center of base of air spring (bottle jack business-end kept falling over to the side -- needed to be guided into place carefully to the center of the air spring base, then simply pumped away on jack like hans and franz and the thing finally popped loose). Removal complete, the install of new Arnott air spring was comparatively trivial. Just follow the directions that come with the new unit.
As mentioned in this thread, once finished with the install, lower the car down slowly -- the air spring(s) is(are) completely deflated. You'll have made sure the lower section of the air spring is seated into the control arm properly having guided it into place as best you can before you put the wheel back on. On startup, there will be the expected groans and pops as the new air spring adjusts to its new home and seats itself. All in all, not a difficult project if you have basic wrenching skills and common sense.
Note: if anyone needs my jack hack rig, I'll send it to them. No problem. It worked great. When you're done with it, make it available in the thread for anyone else who may be needing it.
Thanks T101 for starting this thread. I learned from each one of you. I took my time, it took an entire morning, but was very careful -- car is a daily driver. I bought the car, my wife took it over a long time ago. Go figure It's a truly great car, no major issues, 160k+ miles, we are the first and only owners.
02-06-2023, 07:27 PM
, but the jack created just enough space to squirrel the new part into place. Without this hack, it would have been difficult (tried that for about 1min and gave up -- the space was just too small to get the air spring through without tons of grief and overhandling the new part). This 'jack hack' made all the difference.
It's a truly great car, no major issues, 160k+ miles, we are the first and only owners.
