Goodbye and Thanks
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 134
From: Down Unda
W204 C63 AMG, W212 E250 CGI, C207 E250 CGI
I still like the looks of my 2010 E, but considering possibly replacing it. Had several problems that were fixed under warranty and in really good shape. Recently had an issue with the auto HVAC develop and dealership is reluctant to even test it. They did do one test and it was normal, but not interested in going further. While Lexus is reliable, I cannot get past that really, really ugly front end.
If I had to choose right now, would probably strongly consider the 2017 Genesis G80. Previously known as the Hyundai Genesis, but they did do some changes for new model.
For reliability ratings, might review Consumer Reports and truedelta.com. While CR has some "reliability" problems of its own in rating cars, the reliability data is based on how subscribers responded to the surveys.
Good luck.
If I had to choose right now, would probably strongly consider the 2017 Genesis G80. Previously known as the Hyundai Genesis, but they did do some changes for new model.
For reliability ratings, might review Consumer Reports and truedelta.com. While CR has some "reliability" problems of its own in rating cars, the reliability data is based on how subscribers responded to the surveys.
Good luck.
thats why there are buses.
OP, goodluck and all the best! hope you find yourself in another MB sooner rather than later.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 343
Likes: 43
E250 Diesel
JD Power numbers are a marketing gimmick at best. These guys do paid marketing study and let's people pay to use their name. Many times the whole survey is done at the request of the car company that wants a good rating. And the statisticians work around the clock to somehow fudge the numbers to "satisfy" their client. If you don't believe me read the fine prints published with all the rankings. You ll know that it's pretty much an exercise in licensing fee revenue. (I speak from experience in dealing with that company). The consumers are not their clients.
On the other hand I believe Consumer Union, the people who publish the Consumer Reports, tell you like it is and have no conflicts of interest.
Besides, pretty much much all cars are OK in the first 3 years. Try keeping a car like 2001 Lexus RX 300 with 252k miles. (My car). I highly doubt an MB would last that long. Even if it did, I'd probably mortgage my house to pay for the repairs.
On the other hand I believe Consumer Union, the people who publish the Consumer Reports, tell you like it is and have no conflicts of interest.
Besides, pretty much much all cars are OK in the first 3 years. Try keeping a car like 2001 Lexus RX 300 with 252k miles. (My car). I highly doubt an MB would last that long. Even if it did, I'd probably mortgage my house to pay for the repairs.
Reliability and cost of upkeep are better with Lexus but Hoover vacuum cleaners are reliable too.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,583
Likes: 293
2019 E300
JD Power numbers are a marketing gimmick at best. These guys do paid marketing study and let's people pay to use their name. Many times the whole survey is done at the request of the car company that wants a good rating. And the statisticians work around the clock to somehow fudge the numbers to "satisfy" their client. If you don't believe me read the fine prints published with all the rankings. You ll know that it's pretty much an exercise in licensing fee revenue. (I speak from experience in dealing with that company). The consumers are not their clients.
On the other hand I believe Consumer Union, the people who publish the Consumer Reports, tell you like it is and have no conflicts of interest.
Besides, pretty much much all cars are OK in the first 3 years. Try keeping a car like 2001 Lexus RX 300 with 252k miles. (My car). I highly doubt an MB would last that long. Even if it did, I'd probably mortgage my house to pay for the repairs.
On the other hand I believe Consumer Union, the people who publish the Consumer Reports, tell you like it is and have no conflicts of interest.
Besides, pretty much much all cars are OK in the first 3 years. Try keeping a car like 2001 Lexus RX 300 with 252k miles. (My car). I highly doubt an MB would last that long. Even if it did, I'd probably mortgage my house to pay for the repairs.
Consumer Report is good for rating toasters or vacuum cleaners, their car rating system is flawed. Years ago, they were giving Toyota automatic max. recommend ratings without even testing the car, this went on for years until it was bought to the public's attention. On the 2008 GS350, CR gave the RWD version a highly recommended rating while the AWD version of the GS350 would get a low rating. The reason according to CR was due to the powertrain, as we all know, the powertrain of the RWD and the AWD are the same. The only difference was the AWD system which had proven to be very reliable. The real reason for the low rating should have been the troublesome dashboard which rattles loudly every time you take a turn. It was a design problem that Toyota had no fix for. Had CR did their research and testing, they would not have look a fool in their publication. CR's sampling size and methods has also been called into question by many in the profession. CR only sample subscribers, which leaves out a large segment of the car buying population. Most people who subscribed to CR are very conservative financially, which means they usually own what they perceived as reliable cars like Honda or Toyota. That would mean the sample size for cars like Audi, Mercedes or BMW are much smaller than say Toyota or Honda.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,623
Likes: 160
From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Sort of, maybe
Consumer Report is good for rating toasters or vacuum cleaners, their car rating system is flawed. Years ago, they were giving Toyota automatic max. recommend ratings without even testing the car, this went on for years until it was bought to the public's attention. On the 2008 GS350, CR gave the RWD version a highly recommended rating while the AWD version of the GS350 would get a low rating. The reason according to CR was due to the powertrain, as we all know, the powertrain of the RWD and the AWD are the same. The only difference was the AWD system which had proven to be very reliable. The real reason for the low rating should have been the troublesome dashboard which rattles loudly every time you take a turn. It was a design problem that Toyota had no fix for. Had CR did their research and testing, they would not have look a fool in their publication. CR's sampling size and methods has also been called into question by many in the profession. CR only sample subscribers, which leaves out a large segment of the car buying population. Most people who subscribed to CR are very conservative financially, which means they usually own what they perceived as reliable cars like Honda or Toyota. That would mean the sample size for cars like Audi, Mercedes or BMW are much smaller than say Toyota or Honda.
Yes there will be more Toyota respondents than MB simply because more people drive Toyotas than MB's - far more.
This last report showed Lexus and Porsche as most reliable and the sample size, especially for Porsche, is far smaller than MB's, much less Audi, BMW, etc. This is the same for JD Power or any other surveyor.
While average CR subscriber may be conservative, look at how many purchase expensive, problem prone cars anyway. Chrysler, Fiat, etc. owners purchased enough to make the minimum sample size cutoff, despite years of bad ratings from CR.
As for AWD vs RWD or even FWD, AWD cars always rank lower in reliability and higher in problems. Simply because AWD is a more complex drive system with many more parts. They also may tend to experience more harsh use than RWD or FWD vehicles.
CR used to split the E by RWD and AWD and while RWD was above average in reliability, the AWD was always below average - as reported by actual owners.
Last edited by El Cid; Feb 27, 2017 at 09:37 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 85
From: New Jersey
2010 E550 P2 w/AMG Sport Package + Pano, 2015 Nissan Pathfinder
Sad to see you go and glad the airmatic was not an issue. I figured it wasn't after you said it took a week of sitting for the lowering to happen.
Good luck and remember you can always come back to an MB if you want to. There is no definitive best car/brand only the best car/brand for you. Keep us in the loop.
Good luck and remember you can always come back to an MB if you want to. There is no definitive best car/brand only the best car/brand for you. Keep us in the loop.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 343
Likes: 43
E250 Diesel
As for the 100 points of data as the minimum. That is fair. In statistics, we say that about 30 to 40 sample size is significant enough. Obviously, we'd like more. However, it's not just the sample size that goes into an analysis. There are other explanatory variables to be incorporated to determine an outcome. JDP screws up or skews this in favor of the client every time (again speaking from first hand experience).
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,623
Likes: 160
From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Agree about JD Power
to G man and el Cid, I was only comparing JD Power and consumer reports in that one company has a client which was a corporate interest vs the other company which does not a conflict.
As for the 100 points of data as the minimum. That is fair. In statistics, we say that about 30 to 40 sample size is significant enough. Obviously, we'd like more. However, it's not just the sample size that goes into an analysis. There are other explanatory variables to be incorporated to determine an outcome. JDP screws up or skews this in favor of the client every time (again speaking from first hand experience).
As for the 100 points of data as the minimum. That is fair. In statistics, we say that about 30 to 40 sample size is significant enough. Obviously, we'd like more. However, it's not just the sample size that goes into an analysis. There are other explanatory variables to be incorporated to determine an outcome. JDP screws up or skews this in favor of the client every time (again speaking from first hand experience).
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 748
Likes: 27
From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
Add the churn at the top of the various listings from year to year and every mfg seems to get a chance to break into the Top 5 or so.
Hmmmmm.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,583
Likes: 293
2019 E300
The J D Power three year reliability survey is one of the tools I use to buy cars, it has been a pretty reliable measuring stick for me, more so than CR. Rather other J D Power client sponsors win whatever other BS award, I really don't pay attention to it. Just like I still use CR for home appliance, but not for buying cars.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,583
Likes: 293
2019 E300
Same here, I use Amazon review quite a bit, probably more so than anything else. Unfortunately, Amazon doesn't cover all items I shop for and sometimes, much like CR, sampling size is a problem. I just cannot trust Amazon ratings that only had less than a 100 reviews.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 34
Likes: 5
E550 4Matic, Toyota Tundra
My other car is a 2015 Focus ST. It's a six-speed and a lot of fun to hoon around in. It has all the creature comforts one would be used to in a 2010 Mercedes.
And it's now for sale: http://www.focusst.org/forum/cars-sa...ington-dc.html
At least you won't lose so much in 0-60 times
And it's now for sale: http://www.focusst.org/forum/cars-sa...ington-dc.html
At least you won't lose so much in 0-60 times
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 85
From: New Jersey
2010 E550 P2 w/AMG Sport Package + Pano, 2015 Nissan Pathfinder
My other car is a 2015 Focus ST. It's a six-speed and a lot of fun to hoon around in. It has all the creature comforts one would be used to in a 2010 Mercedes.
And it's now for sale: http://www.focusst.org/forum/cars-sa...ington-dc.html
At least you won't lose so much in 0-60 times
And it's now for sale: http://www.focusst.org/forum/cars-sa...ington-dc.html
At least you won't lose so much in 0-60 times
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 34
Likes: 5
E550 4Matic, Toyota Tundra
They're pretty kitted-out in the later model years.
And a hot-hatch kind of awesome:
And see the pretty pictures! https://www.flickr.com/gp/35547066@N06/188p87
And a hot-hatch kind of awesome:
And see the pretty pictures! https://www.flickr.com/gp/35547066@N06/188p87
