Dingo L

So far I can't find accurate information of both versions' shock absorbers, do you have any idea? Are they literally the same or not?
Thanks

pierrejoliat

It is my understanding that they are not, the Bilstein replacements are B4 for luxury and B6 for sport. A mechanic friend says the B4 also has longer travel, but I have not been able to confirm that.

Dingo L

Oh....
I used to think B4 is for both 485 (luxury/comfort) and 677 (avantgarde/standard) while B6 is for 486 (sport), so am l wrong?

pierrejoliat

I think you might be, my 12 with 485 calls for the B4 replacement, my 13 with the 677 calls for the B6 replacement.

But, for 15 years I had a S500 2003 made 8/02, I ordered brakes and they didn't fit, I sent them back and re-ordered pads and rotors for a 2004 and they fit. I also had the 2003 navigation with ten cd's not the 2004 with one cd, so my car was a mixture of years for ordering parts, the air valve body in the trunk and the valve body under the hood was 2004 not 2003. Also there were so many configurations and Mercedes changes parts mid-year so you must order by VIN number.

S-Prihadi

One think I am certain on the side of Bilstein is :
B4 is standard, full travel shocks.
B6 is sport ( firmer ) , full travel shocks
B8 sport and shorter travel shocks
Full info :
My datasheet stated mine as : 677... AVANTGARDE/STANDARD SUSPENSION . Mine is AMG-line E400, sort of AMG wanna be without being AMG... LOL.
Last post here explains well that 677 is a lowered but standard suspension
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...uspension.html

Dingo L

I quite agree that 677 is a lowered but standard suspension.

According to an MB technician, who checked with the VIN of an E250 Elegance and my E250 Avantgarde, the rear shocks turned out to be A212 320 0630 (Elegance) and A212 320 4630 (Avantgarde).

And according to most online shops' information B4 is supposed to fit both shocks, that probably means the only difference which alters the riding quality is the springs.....

The last question would probably be the quality of different shocks brands, which Bilstein seems to be a good one.... I don't know yet, ha ha.

Dingo L

Tom in Austin

Hey guys, this is very useful information! I'm trying to soften the ride on my wife's C350, and pleased to learn the code 677 "Avantgarde/Standard Suspension" is now confirmed to mean a lowered standard/luxury spec. (I'm guessing the code has the same meaning on both E's and C's)

I found a used spring from a car whose datacard/VIN shows code 677 suspension. So I think it's likely I've found the correct item we needed for her car.

DFWdude

I'd go slowly on this Tom. The term "Avantgarde/Standard Suspension" is just a term... it ONLY means that it is a "standard spring," and not an airbag type suspension. I have Avantgarde springs on both my old W203 C-Class and my 2016 W212 E-Class. BUT, the W203 has a luxury suspension (non-sport), while the W212 definitely is a sport model.

LILBENZ230

I had 486 on my 2014 C350 and I have 677 on my 2016 E350. The E350 is much, much softer. If the parts are compatible and you just want to soften up the W204, this should work.

Arrie

Just a little word on the stiffness of the suspension.

It is not the spring that matters here. Any of these springs, sport or luxury are very soft without the shock absorbers. If you don't believe me remove the shocks and see how stiff the car drives. You would not feel any potholes etc. on road but you could not drive very fast either as the car would be bouncing around so much.

If you want to soften the ride you need less aggressive shocks.

I have the Airmatic suspension in my car and it has Sports and Comfort modes. It does change the car height a little down with Sports but this is not what makes the suspension stiffer. It is the liquid control valve in each shock absorber that the mode changes. Obviously Sports mode has more restriction for the liquid to flow thru the valve so the suspension becomes stiffer.

Don't change your springs, change the shocks if you want to change the ride comfort.

Dingo L

Glad that you bring back the ultimate question back on the table : In the suspension system what affects the riding quality, the springs? the shocks? or both?

I believe both affect the riding "softness", so the springs do matter.
It is easy to prove, and l did it, l changed the springs from 677 to 485 specs, and my butt tells me the ride is softer.
And actually you don't need to do any change to prove, just imagine, if you change your car's springs to a set of stronger springs, would you feel the same? I don't think so. So vice versa if you change to a set of 'weaker' springs the ride would be softer, even though it's just a little.

Of course the shocks do matter, but in my case, my E250 CGI Avantgarde is already using the softest shocks ( according to most online shops Bilstein B4 fits both 677 and 485 shocks so l assume both specs of shocks are almost identical except a little difference of shock movement length ). If there is a softer shock than B4, l would definitely go for it.

Guys any thoughts?

Dingo L

So Tom, what's the version of yr C350? If it's with 486 suspension you could change both the springs and shocks in 485 specs to get a soft ride, but yr car would sit almost 2cm higher....

S-Prihadi

Springs and shocks, both effect overall hardness of suspension or sometimes we can perceived it as "jarring" if extreme hardness of the 2 combined.
Few months ago I replaced my 2011 1.6L Forfd Fiesta with coil-overs, so spring and shocks complete. At softest shock setting ( adjustable ), due to the springs are like 50% harder.......damn its only good for the track,
albeit I bought the street/sport version and not track one.

So I remove the coil-overs and replaced only the shocks (4) with a new sportier Kayaba-s and all okey....as good as original.

Based on my E400 shocks being SACHS, anyday I will take the Bilstein B4. Comfy but sporty when driven spirited...I love it.

LILBENZ230

I actually would have preferred my 2016 E350 to have 486. The 677 suspension seems quite soft. That being said, I don't notice any weird rake like EuroSD said.




Seems level.

Dingo L

Somehow l think MB made some adjustments to the suspension of w213, l guess for both Avantgarde versions w213 ride more comfortably than w212.....
Perhaps l should make a back to back riding test if l could find a w213 Avantgarde.....

Arrie

Of course springs too affect the ride quality but in my post I talk about the hard suspension and the springs alone between Sports and Comfort suspension make very little difference. It mainly comes from shocks.

Bilstein sayin their shock fits both Sports and Comfort is only based on physical dimensions, that are the same between the car models. they do not care about your ride quality, they just sell shocks.

Dingo L

In Hong Kong, there are usually 3 versions for every model, they are AMG line ( 'Sport' in other countries), Avantgarde and Elegance ( 'Luxury' in other countries).

In terms of suspension settings, the AMG line is the lowest and stiffest, the Elegance is the highest and softest, while the Avantgarde is in between.
Under this arrangement, l believe even just changing springs from AMG to Elegance or vice versa, the effect is significant. Of course changing the shocks would get more obvious difference, l'm with you Arrie. (Sometimes the AMG line and Avantgarde share the same suspension settings, the AMG it's just about cosmetics. )
What keeps troubling me is, l can't get absolute reliable information about the different settings between Avantgarde and Elegance models, l know they use different springs, but l am not sure about their shocks! Bilstein says B4 fits both models, and a very experienced MB technician believes the only difference between the two models is the shock movement distance.... I really hope l can get correct information from this forum.....

Dingo L

S-Prihadi

The EE video is correct, but shock absorber rebound also controls the speed of the tire contact to a depression/hole on the road.
Shock absorber compression,also controls the speed of the tire contact to a bump.
All these compression and rebound is equal to how the shock absorber valving is set, aka resistance.

This is what Arrie explains as shock absorber also plays a role in stiffening up the suspension..... this is also true.... in a way.

The main difference between a spring to the shock absorber is that a shock is a sort of energy regulator for the spring.
I can give you a simple example :
A stationary car without any shocks installed, will have the same ground clearance as a car with shocks intalled. Aka the same amount of spring compression will occur on its all 4 springs.

A stationary car, without any springs and only shocks no matter how sporty or soft, will bottom out a shock to its maximum compression limit. Aka the ground clearance will basically collapsed.
The only difference between the sporty/hard and soft shocks will be the time to bottom out, the soft one will be faster.

So a sporty shock will create more resistance to compression of the springs and this is what is perceived as "hard".
There is no change in the KG force per millimeters of the spring, if the car weight is 2,000KG and all 4 springs are say equal in spec as 5 KG per mm travel and all corners weight are 25% or 500KG (for easy sake) ,
all 4 springs will be compressed to 500/5 = 100mm of travel when the car is stationary...be it a sport or soft shock. Think of a shock as delay device for springs to react instead of an energy storage.... may be easier to visualize.

Shocks valving or resistance curve is complex, but it can make a car feel sportier and handle better or even hasher or more comfy....it all depends what the shocks designer wants to achieve for the car.

Now these below videos explains speed of compression/rebound, depending on how the shock is valved, will show that the faster the speed of shock travel, the more resistance it will offer.

Arrie

Your explanation is good. Shock absorber is what its name is, it absorbs shocks that the wheel experience. Without shocks the suspension travel would bottom out very easily.

Most complaints I read in this forum is that the suspension is too stiff meaning the shocks are too aggressive.

I went on the rockauto pages and searched for springs and shocks for 2010 and 2016 model year E350. For both it only gives one spring but for both it offers shocks separate for Sports and Comfort models. Same for the front struts.

Dingo L

S-Prihadi, as always, your reply is so informative, need some time to digest.....

Arrie, l also notice the Sport and Avantgarde of w212 E250 share same springs, but there are different springs for Avantgarde and Elegance (Luxury) :
Avantgarde A212 321 1004 A212 324 0404
Elegance A212 321 0304 A212 324 0104

Arrie

Avantgarde means Sports
Elegance means Luxury

The difference in spring is mainly for the ride height. Sports rides lower than Luxury but I doubt there is much if at all difference in spring constant but I guarantee there is a noticeable difference in the Shock stiffness between these models.

Further, looking at the MBpartscenter.com for the spring part numbers they list all sorts of E models that these springs fit including models E250 up to E63 AMG so I don't think the springs have much to do with suspension stiffness in the MB E-class family of cars as I can guarantee that an E63 AMG has way stiffer suspension than a regular E with any kind with coil springs.

Dingo L

Arrie, l am no expert of cars, could judge only by my own experience.
After changing my car's springs from Avantgarde to Elegance specs, l can feel more spring movement on the same pothole l pass through each day, and l can clearly feel the ride is a little softer.
But I'm also with you, shocks are crucial.

Btw, the video below says there are 3 types of suspensions of the w212, which are SE (Luxury), Avantgarde and Sport, and they are different, pls take a look ( 0:45 - 1:05 )

ccww

I've read through this entire thread and I am still quite confused by the build sheet (provided by MBUSA customer service) for my 2015 Aventgarde E250 Bluetec with:

Please help me understand if I am breaking this down correctly: Setting aside Airmatic and AMG cars, there are two suspension tunings, comfort and sport. Comfort corresponds to BOTH 485 and 677. 677 is just lowered 15mm compared to 485 which is only available on the Elegance models. 486 is a true sport suspension with stiffer damping. Is 486 even lower than 677?

With 677 and 17-inch wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires my comfort is excellent in a straight line but turn-in is distinctly soft and creates more body roll than I would ideally like. What would all have to be replaced in order to retrofit 486? Springs, struts/shocks, and springs? Or would a good bet be to just put in a Bilstein B6 and leave everything else the same. I have driven E350s that I believe to have 677 and they seem to be sharper. Could this be solely due to their 18" wheels or am I just mis-remembering?

Regarding ride height, I don't notice a tilt to the car as previously described, but I do feel as though it looks high off the ground compared to most other W212 that I see. Perhaps it is just an illusion with the fairly small 17" wheels.