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If I may: I thought OP's interest was in used W212s, in the case of the 3-year run of the TT4.7 E550 sedan for the US market Airmatic was an option, that often was not ordered - so should be a lot of non-airmatics out there; whereas 4matic was on all of them...
And it sounds like he is leaning 350 anyway, so maybe it's all moot...
Well, mtnman82 says he lives in a small town. After showing the handful of enthusiasts in a smal town what a beast the 550 is, there won't be many occasions to strut the stuff afterwards. After watching his buddy replace the airmatic in his 550, I think I agree he's leaning toward the E350.
Besides, if 2014 was the last year for the E550 with the TT engine, then he would be buying a 6 year old car to start, with major repairs closer at hand. Not as desireable (IMO) as a newer car if keeping for years beyond.
BTW, in strict stop and go traffic, my E350 gets 18.5-20mpg regularly. Better fuel mileage than my wife's 4-banger Hyundai Sonata.
If I understand it correctly, you can buy an E550 only with Airmatic suspension and 4-wheel drive. If keeping for several years, both would be deal-breakers for me, especially the air suspension. Owning one of those more than 10 years (4-years before you get it, then 6+ in your hands), then replacing all four corner airbags will cost more than the car is worth.
OP says he lives in a small town. After showing the handful of enthusiasts in a smal town what a beast the 550 is, there won't be many occasions to strut the stuff afterwards.
I'm more than happy with the puny, anemic 302 hp in the E350, instead, thanks.
OP's current car is 17 years old and he has stated that he plans to keep this one as long or longer. For a short term ownership, perhaps these airmatic/4Matic/twin turbo cars make sense. But I am genuinely surprised anyone is recommending them for this potential length of ownership. I was only considering 2016 W212s and for an ownership period of 4-5 years it was enough for me to intentionally skip the E400 with its twin turbos. The E-class is fundamentally the same car until you get to the AMG - and even the basic ones are complicated. I'd get the least complicated. Almost two decades of ownership is way, way beyond the average for Mercedes these days. But I'm also a big fan of NA cars.. hence my garage of this E350 and a 6-speed Miata.
Last edited by LILBENZ230; 02-08-2020 at 02:08 PM.
OP's current car is 17 years old and he has stated that he plans to keep this one as long or longer. For a short term ownership, perhaps these airmatic/4Matic/twin turbo cars make sense. But I am genuinely surprised anyone is recommending them for this potential length of ownership. I was only considering 2016 W212s and for an ownership period of 4-5 years it was enough for me to intentionally skip the E400 with its twin turbos. The E-class is fundamentally the same car until you get to the AMG - and even the basic ones are complicated. I'd get the least complicated. Almost two decades of ownership is way, way beyond the average for Mercedes these days. But I'm also a big fan of NA cars.. hence my garage of this E350 and a 6-speed Miata.
Ah yes, the indestructible and fun-as-heck Miata And Miata keeps improving that N/A little fun car! Wish Honda would have done the same for my S2000... Back on track: I read somewhere MB is bringing back an inline 6 - but I bet they turbo it... I don't know where the "turbos = no longevity" comes from, because there are plenty that go hundreds of thousands of miles. Though I do get the "less complicated" part - I think those days may be waning...
Note that most E350s have squared tire setups, but if you see one with the AMG split-spokes these are staggered. As far as the E350 being sporty, I would say that's subjective. It drives like a RWD car that feels smaller than it is. It is extremely competent. I wish the steering were heavier, though.
The 4matics had the square setup. The RWD models had the staggered setup. The drawback on staggered is that you can't rotate them so you get 1/2 the life out of tires like you do on the 4matic. Although some people with the staggered setup have gone to a square one but that's a new set of rims and tires.
OP's current car is 17 years old and he has stated that he plans to keep this one as long or longer. For a short term ownership, perhaps these airmatic/4Matic/twin turbo cars make sense. But I am genuinely surprised anyone is recommending them for this potential length of ownership.... Almost two decades of ownership is way, way beyond the average for Mercedes these days. But I'm also a big fan of NA cars.. hence my garage of this E350 and a 6-speed Miata.
I agree. My 2001 C320 is now showing its age. I've put more money into it in the last 6-months than in its first 18 years.
Totally off-topic... I love the Miata. I have several friends who drive them. Too bad my long legs can fit in one.
And on that score, I had a good friend in St.Louis who was an ex New England Pats lineman. At 6'8", he removed the drivers seat and drove his Datsun 240Z 2+2 from the back seat, literally. Looked odd as heck. But it worked for him. No back seat in the Miata (when you need one, LOL).
The 4matics had the square setup. The RWD models had the staggered setup. The drawback on staggered is that you can't rotate them so you get 1/2 the life out of tires like you do on the 4matic. Although some people with the staggered setup have gone to a square one but that's a new set of rims and tires.
That is what I thought, but no. I drove several RWD 2016 E350s with squared setup. It has to do with rims - not the drivetrain.
I wonder if Airmatic models can be changed to regular shocks? I was quoted 2 grand to swap all 4 corners and thankfully had extended warranty. It probably would need to be coded.
The 4matics had the square setup. The RWD models had the staggered setup. The drawback on staggered is that you can't rotate them so you get 1/2 the life out of tires like you do on the 4matic. Although some people with the staggered setup have gone to a square one but that's a new set of rims and tires.
All E-class 4-Matics are square tire setup but MB also had a line of Luxury appearance that was also square setup but not 4-Matic. You could buy RWD car with either Luxury or Sports (Avantgarde) setup. Sports had the 265 wide rear tires with 245 in front.
I wonder if Airmatic models can be changed to regular shocks? I was quoted 2 grand to swap all 4 corners and thankfully had extended warranty. It probably would need to be coded.
TWO GRAND??? Who quoted you that low? That would be a steal to have it done that low.
Just a couple of months ago I did all four corners and the parts cost alone was about $2900!
Did the job myself. Easy job, a lot easier than it first looks but Mercedes seems to make these cars look to be difficult to work on but at the same time they make them easy for their shops to do the job. Good way to charge for the "air time" on the lift when the car actually sits outside and another car is already on the lift.
All E-class 4-Matics are square tire setup but MB also had a line of Luxury appearance that was also square setup but not 4-Matic. You could buy RWD car with either Luxury or Sports (Avantgarde) setup. Sports had the 265 wide rear tires with 245 in front.
I don't think this is universal (if that's what you intended to write). My 2016 Sport is squared, with 245/40 R18 at all corners.
I don't think this is universal (if that's what you intended to write). My 2016 Sport is squared, with 245/40 R18 at all corners.
I'm not sure why no one seems to get this. RWD or AWD, Sport or Luxury makes no difference. Whether the car has a staggered setup in an E350 depends on rims it is equipped with and nothing else.
RWD Sport E350s with these wheels are squared:
RWD Sport E350s with these rims are staggered:
Last edited by LILBENZ230; 02-09-2020 at 12:32 PM.
All E-class 4-Matics are square tire setup but MB also had a line of Luxury appearance that was also square setup but not 4-Matic. You could buy RWD car with either Luxury or Sports (Avantgarde) setup. Sports had the 265 wide rear tires with 245 in front.
Quick clarification here. The E63 AMG is an E class and 4 Matic as well. They all come with staggered wheels.
Thought I had posted yesterday but I guess it didn’t go thru…
I truly appreciate the responses and insight.
I prefer rear wheel or all wheel drive to front wheel drive. I believe CLA went to FWD? Wanted to make sure E class variants hadn’t gone that way.
I live in a smaller town and 85% of the miles I’ll be putting on the car will be in town, so gas mileage is a factor but not a show stopper. No diesel for me. Definitely interested in Fallen’s E550. Window sticker claims 17mpg city(?) which is doable, I’m not sure about 12~14mpg… I’d also prefer a reliable normally aspirated power plant.
A coworker had a W211 E550 and got rid of it after having to replace all 4 corners of the airmatic suspension one at a time. He loved the performance and the way it drove.
I’m looking for something sporty in the sense of a sports sedan – which I guess is still a little vague. I’m coming from an ‘03 c230k, on which I had a tune done, put on H&R springs/sways with Bilstein sport struts/shocks, 4-piston calipers up front/2-piston calipers on the rear, etc.
DFWdude!!! I still have an extra one of your hood ornaments! I hear you on the fuel efficiency of the newer and more powerful engines. A few years ago I went from a 2002 ~250hp V8 truck to a 2009 ~350hp truck and get the same if not a little better gas mileage.
You E550 guys – what mpg’s are you getting in city only driving? And on the highway?
LILBENZ230!!! Yes – long time no see. Yep, plan is to keep this as long or longer than the 230.
Right now I’m leaning towards a 2016 E350. Looking to check one out tomorrow with the sport package and premium package. Still eyeing Fallen’s E550 too.
Any more insight or advise is appreciated!
I have a 2010 E550. It has 176500 miles on the clock.
If you want a reliable car that is family car and a bit sporty at the same time you want the E550. But, I would stay with 2010-2011 models with the NA engine. I can tell that this engine after 176500 miles is every bit as good as brand new. Gas mileage just last week was at 25 MPG on interstate highway going 79 MPH almost all of the 454 miles that took 18.1 gallons of fuel. Car showed 27.1 MPG but it always shows a couple MPG better than actual calculated from miles and gas used. The engine does not burn any oil at all. I check the level every time I fill it up (old habit) and I have never added oil in the engine outside oil changes.
What comes to sportiness there is plenty of it in this car. My first Mercedes was a 2011 E350 and for that I can say it lacks power for the 2 tons of metal to move but E550 with the monster engine is a whole different story. In my opinion the car is very sporty if it can do 0-60 MPH in just about 5 seconds.
What comes to AirMatic. All horror talk about it for no real reason. Yes, it is somewhat costly repair. I just replaced all four corners a couple of months ago on this 10 years old car. Parts cost was about $2900 and I did the very easy job myself. If we look at this cost for the time and miles it is $290/year or about 1.7 cents/mile (based on 170000 miles at the time). This is the only big repair I have done to my car during the 8 years of ownership.
I also replaced the thermostat just a few weeks ago. It was about $150 part, again did the job myself.
While doing the thermostat noticed the power steering pump has been leaking, which is my next job. Bought the pump from the dealer already for $450. Have not done the job yet but will soon.
The car is 10 years old but is rock solid and naturally you can expect wearing parts to do what they are, i.e. wear, and at some point you will need to replace them.
A good example of reliability is the serpentine belt. While I was buying the steering pump I asked what the MB recommendation for changing the belt is and they really do not have recommendation. They told me that usually an idler pulley bearing fails before the belt and at that time they put on a new belt when replacing the pulleys. I had to take the upper pulley out for changing the thermostat and the bearing on it felt like brand new so I'm not planning to change my belt anytime soon as it also looks like new.
Then the money side of it. If you buy 2010-2011 E550 you can spend around $10000 for a car with 80000-130000 miles on the clock. If you then think about replacing all air springs by the dealer that will be around $5000 I would guess so your total runs at around $15000. Replacing thermostat and steering pump by the dealer would add another $2000 or so I estimate so your purchase would still be well under $20000.
Now, if you would want a younger sporty E-class you would need to buy E450, which is not really available before 2019 model year so the cost is way up. And engine power is still below the good old NA 5.5 liter engine that the 2010-1011 E550 has. The cheapest E450 on MB used cars site is $45000. Can do lots of repairs on the E550 for the cost difference.
Lowest cost for E400 on the site is about $22700. Still more than the cost of E550 with repairs and definitely has not that sportiness of E550.
There are 2012-2014 E550 also. They are then around $15000 and up but they have the turbo engines, which can be a reliability issue like on those E400 and E450 models but the E550 with the 4.7 liter turbo has more power than the N/A 5.5 liter engine.
It seems the E550 is getting hard to find. The MB site has only a few of them left (a couple way overpriced) and remember only 2010-2011 has the NA engine.
I'm sure there must be plenty of these cars available outside MB dealers but the MB site is a good indicator of the availability in general.
I'm not sure why no one seems to get this. RWD or AWD, Sport or Luxury makes no difference. Whether the car has a staggered setup in an E350 depends on rims it is equipped with and nothing else.
RWD Sport E350s with these wheels are squared:
RWD Sport E350s with these rims are staggered:
Hold on LILBENZ230,
What do you mean nobody gets this? Do you?
When MB introduced the sports appearance package they made the rear tires wider at 265 mm instead of 245 mm in front. This was for RWD cars only. Reason is that with staggered setup there is a diameter difference between front and rear tires and this naturally causes speed difference between the axles. This speed difference makes the center differential lock disk to wear out as it has to allow slip between axles. For that reason AWD cars regardless of sports or luxury appearance package come with the same 245/40-R18 tires or some older ones could have been even on 17" rims but the key here is AWD models have the same tire size in all corners.
Now the AMG is different but I think that model uses a little bit better center differential lock system that allows the axle speed difference (without excessive wear) that staggered wheel setup brings.
That is true but I was not talking about AMG as they have their own forum.
i understand, but you cannot generalize like that and misinform. Point is, 4 Matic cars come with staggered setups. I was only clarifying that potential misinformation to any MB E class buyer, who may think you cannot have 4 Matic and staggered together.
When MB introduced the sports appearance package they made the rear tires wider at 265 mm instead of 245 mm in front. This was for RWD cars only. Reason is that with staggered setup there is a diameter difference between front and rear tires and this naturally causes speed difference between the axles. This speed difference makes the center differential lock disk to wear out as it has to allow slip between axles. For that reason AWD cars regardless of sports or luxury appearance package come with the same 245/40-R18 tires or some older ones could have been even on 17" rims but the key here is AWD models have the same tire size in all corners..
Don't need the lecture on the why or what for of staggered setups. I understand the concept, and I also am not talking about 4Matic cars. What I am trying to get across to anyone reading this thread is that RWD E350s 2014-2016 do not have staggered setups automatically just because they are the "Sport" package. To have staggered wheels/tires requires optional AMG rims which are not uncommon but not "the norm" either. That's why I included photos in my post above.
Trying to get a lid on misinformation.
Last edited by LILBENZ230; 02-09-2020 at 02:49 PM.
So MB is now saving money with only making one kind of rims for E350 now?
WOW!!!
This is my car, a 2016, RWD E350 Sport. As LILBENZ230 observes, it has the same size rims front and rear (squared). That's fine with me.
I just replaced the rears with Yokohama Avid Ascend GT 245/40 R18 97Vs. (65,000mi treadwear warranty) This was a Florida car with one original OEM Continental tire or the RR. At 26,000 miles it was worn to 3/32" so needed to be replaced. The other three tires were replaced by the leasing FL dealer at various times, one at a time. These now range from 10/32 to 8/32 in tread, so there was no need to replace them. Because it's a squared setup, I had the best-matched Contis moved to the front and replaced the rears.
So far, I like the Yokohamas a lot. My C320 has Yokohama YK540 tires, and they are fantastic for ride, noise and handling, and wear like iron.
This is my car, a 2016, RWD E350 Sport. As LILBENZ230 observes, it has the same size rims front and rear. That's fine with me.
I was pleasantly surprised to find squared setups on my test drive of several RWD 2016 sport models because before I actually started shopping I, too, assumed that all sport models had staggered tires. However, in the end, the one I purchased had the optional AMG split spokes and I have 245 fronts and 265 rears. Ah well, they're very pretty.
Last edited by LILBENZ230; 02-09-2020 at 04:08 PM.
Apple carplay/Android Auto was only on the 2016, can't really retrofit it to the older models unless you switch out the comand completely and go with an Android/aftermarket system.
NOT true. There is a very very long thread in the forum about that. To oversimplify, second half 2016 can get Apple CP or Google A. Became standard on 2017 MY.
Also, as of last Friday I can attest to collision prevention working well and is a wallet savior /stupidity shield.
Re ECO start stop only annoying in very tight stop and go when you have to fight for your merging spot. Was bothering me when trying to slow roll as close to the wall in the garage but my workaround is to release my seatbelt as soon as I turn in the driveway.
My great big advise, is to reset the adaptive transmission as early as possible. I saw quite the noticeable difference myself.
NOT true. There is a very very long thread in the forum about that. To oversimplify, second half 2016 can get Apple CP or Google A. Became standard on 2017 MY.
As long as the car has NTG 5 - sometime after 3/2015 production - it should be good. That should cover well over half of the 2016s. One 16 I test drove had a 12/2015 build date.
Don't need the lecture on the why or what for of staggered setups. I understand the concept, and I also am not talking about 4Matic cars. What I am trying to get across to anyone reading this thread is that RWD E350s 2014-2016 do not have staggered setups automatically just because they are the "Sport" package. To have staggered wheels/tires requires optional AMG rims which are not uncommon but not "the norm" either. That's why I included photos in my post above.
Trying to get a lid on misinformation.
And why did you not clarify this in your earlier post? MB used to have ALL so called sports or Avant-garde models with staggered setup with AMG rims and the only exception was 4-Matic that came with square.
And why did you not clarify this in your earlier post? MB used to have ALL so called sports or Avant-garde models with staggered setup with AMG rims and the only exception was 4-Matic that came with square.
I did - see post #31 where I said it depended on the rims, not the drivetrain, as to whether or not an E350 had a staggered setup. That was before you even chimed into this thread to start with. Yes, Mercedes used to do it differently. That changed. That's what a few of us were trying to get across while a few other people have been trying to insist it has to do with 4Matic.
Anyway, enough of this. Wonder what the OP decided to do?
02-08-2020, 02:04 PM
These now range from 10/32 to 8/32 in tread, so there was no need to replace them. Because it's a squared setup, I had the best-matched Contis moved to the front and replaced the rears.
