E class reliability...
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From: SoCal. Desert
'16 E350, gone: '03 c230k
E class reliability...
Looking at stepping up to an E class and wondering if there is a preferred W212 variant? Reliability, sportiness, gas mileage, … Would be coming from a W203 which was OK reliability-wise, nothing major but a lot of little things I had to track down and take care of (work on cars myself, closest MB dealer is ~200 miles away). Thanks for your input!
Edit: Also want to make sure - these cars are rear wheel drive, correct?
Edit: Also want to make sure - these cars are rear wheel drive, correct?
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
If the vehicle is a 4MATIC it is all wheel drive. Otherwise it is rear wheel drive.
Avoid diesel engines, search using google and read this site thoroughly.
Avoid the M272 V6 engine used pre-2012.
Seek the V6 M276 engine from 2012 and later. Later models are more desirable due to early teething pains with chain tensioners.
V8 engines are generally reliable, there are some smaller problems experienced but less than the diesel and M272.
Avoid air suspension due to long term reliability and repair cost. Seek steel sprung vehicles of the latest model year and lowest mileage your budget allows.
Avoid diesel engines, search using google and read this site thoroughly.
Avoid the M272 V6 engine used pre-2012.
Seek the V6 M276 engine from 2012 and later. Later models are more desirable due to early teething pains with chain tensioners.
V8 engines are generally reliable, there are some smaller problems experienced but less than the diesel and M272.
Avoid air suspension due to long term reliability and repair cost. Seek steel sprung vehicles of the latest model year and lowest mileage your budget allows.
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
OM651 diesel is the best diesel MB made in last 40 years. 60 mpg on 2-tons sedan is unbelievable, but new smog requirements make the emission system pretty costly to maintain.
Depends on your budget, seek a model with radars. They are high-maintenance items as well, especially when you live in high-corrosion area, but really add to confidence of driving.
Airmatic is another luxury, that comes with high maintenance tag, but reality is that if you seek low-maintenance car, go see Toyota.
Lot of choices, so good luck seeking.
Depends on your budget, seek a model with radars. They are high-maintenance items as well, especially when you live in high-corrosion area, but really add to confidence of driving.
Airmatic is another luxury, that comes with high maintenance tag, but reality is that if you seek low-maintenance car, go see Toyota.
Lot of choices, so good luck seeking.
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2013 E550 sedan
Defining "sportiness" can be very individual to one's tastes. I have an Airmatic E550 that if I put in Sport handling does quite nicely enough (for me) on the canyon roads I drive, but it is the brute acceleration from the TT 4.7 that makes it "sporty" in my opinion. They only made the E550 sedans with the TT 4.7 for 3 years (in US), all are 4Matic and I feel the AWD is an advantage to the car putting down this kind of power. Not a lot of weight penalty to the 4Matic, so perhaps there is another reason you don't want it? It's a hoot to get pretty much the same acceleration in the rain - puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. It is a car that just eats up highway miles very comfortably. A good sedan choice for us (my Wife and I are former racers, so want some excitement in our cars) - never go back to a non-AWD sedan, and I have my S2000 if I Really want to go wild in the twisties... 
For less issues, I would say you want to go later in the series: late MY '13, or for the more current look: MY '14. Our early build '13 required the timing chain tensioner update and had the oil in wire harness problem, both of which should be non-issues with late 13s and 14s.
There is a forum member that has a very nice E550 for sale down your way...
Best of luck in your decision making, but do go drive one of the E550s I mention - our decision was made as soon as we did...
For less issues, I would say you want to go later in the series: late MY '13, or for the more current look: MY '14. Our early build '13 required the timing chain tensioner update and had the oil in wire harness problem, both of which should be non-issues with late 13s and 14s.
There is a forum member that has a very nice E550 for sale down your way...
Best of luck in your decision making, but do go drive one of the E550s I mention - our decision was made as soon as we did...
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From: Dallas-Ft.Worth,TX
2016 E350 Sport
Looking at stepping up to an E class and wondering if there is a preferred W212 variant? Reliability, sportiness, gas mileage, … Would be coming from a W203 which was OK reliability-wise, nothing major but a lot of little things I had to track down and take care of (work on cars myself, closest MB dealer is ~200 miles away). Thanks for your input!
I also have a W203 (C320). It's 215 hp, 3.2L engine was 55 hp more than a Nissan 300ZX (160 hp) I used to drive, a very competent sports touring coupe. So, the increase in horsepower in the C320 was a nice revelation.
Likewise, going from 215 hp in the W203 to 305 hp in my 2016 E350 is more than a welcome improvement. IMO, the E350 is more than "sporty" as well as luxurious. Others with racing experience seem to gravitate to more and more horsepower wherever they can find it, so I understand their attraction to the E550. But for me, the E350 has all the power I need, on the rare occassion when I "need" it.
Two years of ownership on this W212, without any reliability issues at all.
As for which model to shop, these cars depreciate like crazy the first 3-years from new. IMO, a MY 2016 will find its depreciation levelling off by now, enough to make the facelift model an economical find that will hold value for awhile. Being an end of production run year, the 2016s have some goodies thrown in that were options in years before. (The wooden sport steering wheel isn't even listed as an extra cost option on my car, for example.. And the final version of Comand NTG5/5.5 is more forward upgradable to Apple Carplay/Android Auto than the NTG4x versions prior to 2016.) So, these are some things to consider.
Last edited by DFWdude; Feb 5, 2020 at 03:02 PM.
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2013 E550 sedan
DFWdude brings up some good points, on performance and options, particularly since fuel mileage was in OP's opening post. One thing we found when looking for a used E was the 350s often were not near as highly optioned as the 550s, in fact I'm not sure if you could option one up as high (maybe as a special order?) - but if mileage is a prime concern you might want to look more to the 350s. I'm happy with the trade-off on ours between options & performance vs. mileage. All of the non-airmatic sport units felt tauter but with a trade off of not soaking up the rough stuff as well as airmatic - drive both and see if you'd rather not hassle with maintaining the air ride...
And let's not forget there are 2 levels of performance above the 550 in the E Sedans: the AMG E63 (which seem to be depreciating quickly) and its more popular brethren the E63 Model S - both a serious step above the 550 in all areas of performance, and they appear to enjoy good reliability as well. Just thought I'd throw that out there, since OP's net was cast wide...
And let's not forget there are 2 levels of performance above the 550 in the E Sedans: the AMG E63 (which seem to be depreciating quickly) and its more popular brethren the E63 Model S - both a serious step above the 550 in all areas of performance, and they appear to enjoy good reliability as well. Just thought I'd throw that out there, since OP's net was cast wide...
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If you go to fuel economy dot gov and do a side by side compare of the 2014 E350 and E550, you will find that the mpg numbers are within 2 mpg of each other and the average annual cost is $2,050 vs $2,250. They both burn Premium and the additional cost to operate the 550 is a no brainer. The TTV8 is also underrated by MB and produces closer to 430 HP in dyno testing. It is a perfect package of speed and comfort.
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From: Dallas-Ft.Worth,TX
2016 E350 Sport
I mention this, because my W203 did not develop its best fuel mileage until it had nearly 40,000 miles, a result (I think) from the religious use of Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil... i.e., I think the choice of oil delayed full break-in of the engine components til this milestone. Presuming the E350 is treated the same -- and it will be -- I think I can expect further fuel mileage improvement with the E350 (with just 26,000 at present).
I think this advancement can be attributed to the 7-speed (vs 5spd) auto transmission, and the extra torque of the E350, both useful in more efficient city driving. On the Interstates, I usually achieve up to 30mpg in the W203, while I regularly see 33-34mpg in the more powerful E350.
Last edited by DFWdude; Feb 5, 2020 at 05:28 PM.
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
Looking at stepping up to an E class and wondering if there is a preferred W212 variant? Reliability, sportiness, gas mileage, … Would be coming from a W203 which was OK reliability-wise, nothing major but a lot of little things I had to track down and take care of (work on cars myself, closest MB dealer is ~200 miles away). Thanks for your input!
Edit: Also want to make sure - these cars are rear wheel drive, correct?
Edit: Also want to make sure - these cars are rear wheel drive, correct?
If you're planning to keep the W212 for the amount of time you've kept the W203, I would go for the NA M276 3.5L E350. I would skip any of the turbo engines - except the diesel. I would consider that but couldn't find one at a reasonable price with the options I wanted. I also don't care for driver assistance until it evolves more. I find the systems more annoying than helpful and keep my passive lane keep assist system switched off. Lots of people here will advise you to seek a car with the driver assistance package, but in my opinion - not necessary. They're hard to find and the system in the W212 is at least a generation old now.
My recommendation - buy a 2016 E350. It's well sorted, had updated COMAND NTG 5, and all of them have collision prevention assist plus with automatic emergency braking which is one driver assistance feature that all cars should have. Try not to get any of them with the burl walnut light wood.. that fades. Look for dark ash wood or open pore ash wood (which is what I have and love).
EDIT: not sure if this will be considered an unpopular opinion here, but do not buy a 4Matic. I see you live in the desert. Having test driven them, I found that RWD feels much better out on the road to drive every day. Also, they add complication and expense to maintenance. Just reading another active thread right now about how the oil pans on the 4Matics have axles running through them.
Last edited by LILBENZ230; Feb 6, 2020 at 12:29 PM.
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From: Dallas-Ft.Worth,TX
2016 E350 Sport
EDIT: not sure if this will be considered an unpopular opinion here, but do not buy a 4Matic. I see you live in the desert. Having test driven them, I found that RWD feels much better out on the road to drive every day. Also, they add complication and expense to maintenance. Just reading another active thread right now about how the oil pans on the 4Matics have axles running through them.
IMO, 4-wheel drive is best used in iffy driving conditions, like severe rain, snow, etc. But it's been my experience that when driving conditions are bad, I leave the Mercedes in the nice, warm garage, and take a 4WD something better suited... something that you don't mind sliding into a ditch with.
Last edited by DFWdude; Feb 6, 2020 at 01:22 PM.
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2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
I couldn't agree with you more. Complication that an already complicated vehicle doesn't really need, especially if keeping it for the long haul.
IMO, 4-wheel drive is best used in iffy driving conditions, like severe rain, snow, etc. But it's been my experience that when driving conditions are bad, I leave the Mercedes in the nice, warm garage, and take a 4WD something better suited... something that you don't mind sliding into a ditch with.
IMO, 4-wheel drive is best used in iffy driving conditions, like severe rain, snow, etc. But it's been my experience that when driving conditions are bad, I leave the Mercedes in the nice, warm garage, and take a 4WD something better suited... something that you don't mind sliding into a ditch with.
Also while the E550 is nice, the last year was 2014 and they command a decent premium over the E350. They're also not that easy to find as they didn't make that many of them. But as others said, 2016 is probably best if you can afford it. Apple carplay/Android Auto was only on the 2016, can't really retrofit it to the older models unless you switch out the comand completely and go with an Android/aftermarket system. Driver assistance package is one of the rarest to be found, but not far behind is the lighting package. You can tell from the front headlights. I'd probably suggest at least 2014+ as you have the face lift and a bunch of new tech like the collision prevention although you also end up with auto start/stop which people also hate. After the 2014 E550, there's also 2015/2016 E400. Not the same power as an E550 but still more than the E350 and those came with real leather as standard and those also tended to have more options. I myself would love to find a 2016 E350 with the driver assistance package, lighting package, parktronic, pano roof, keyless go and real leather usually the most I find them with are 3 or 4 of those options. If you find one with the Bang & Olufsen® Beosound™ Premium Sound System, that would be super rare as that was listed as a $5400 option.
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2013 E550 sedan
I usually prefer not sliding into a ditch.
Also while the E550 is nice, the last year was 2014 and they command a decent premium over the E350. They're also not that easy to find as they didn't make that many of them. But as others said, 2016 is probably best if you can afford it. Apple carplay/Android Auto was only on the 2016, can't really retrofit it to the older models unless you switch out the comand completely and go with an Android/aftermarket system. Driver assistance package is one of the rarest to be found, but not far behind is the lighting package. You can tell from the front headlights. I'd probably suggest at least 2014+ as you have the face lift and a bunch of new tech like the collision prevention although you also end up with auto start/stop which people also hate. After the 2014 E550, there's also 2015/2016 E400. Not the same power as an E550 but still more than the E350 and those came with real leather as standard and those also tended to have more options. I myself would love to find a 2016 E350 with the driver assistance package, lighting package, parktronic, pano roof, keyless go and real leather usually the most I find them with are 3 or 4 of those options. If you find one with the Bang & Olufsen® Beosound™ Premium Sound System, that would be super rare as that was listed as a $5400 option.
Also while the E550 is nice, the last year was 2014 and they command a decent premium over the E350. They're also not that easy to find as they didn't make that many of them. But as others said, 2016 is probably best if you can afford it. Apple carplay/Android Auto was only on the 2016, can't really retrofit it to the older models unless you switch out the comand completely and go with an Android/aftermarket system. Driver assistance package is one of the rarest to be found, but not far behind is the lighting package. You can tell from the front headlights. I'd probably suggest at least 2014+ as you have the face lift and a bunch of new tech like the collision prevention although you also end up with auto start/stop which people also hate. After the 2014 E550, there's also 2015/2016 E400. Not the same power as an E550 but still more than the E350 and those came with real leather as standard and those also tended to have more options. I myself would love to find a 2016 E350 with the driver assistance package, lighting package, parktronic, pano roof, keyless go and real leather usually the most I find them with are 3 or 4 of those options. If you find one with the Bang & Olufsen® Beosound™ Premium Sound System, that would be super rare as that was listed as a $5400 option.
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2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
You want some rare options? Find a 350 with rear door sunshades, Night View Assist Plus, lighted doorsills, Active Multi Contour Seat(s), Distronic, keyless go, Adaptive High Beams, Trunk Convenience Box - well some of these are rare on 550s too. Mine has all of these and much more and we didn't have to look all that hard. E550s came with more and then were optioned up more, than any 350 that isn't a needle in the haystack unicorn special order. Heck my Sister In Law looked for 6 months for a 4matic 350 and gave up and got a RWD. But now she's got an E450, so finally got 4matic - still not as fast as ours, but hey she gets another mile or two per gallon...
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I have never had an issue with 4 Matic in any MB. For me it’s a requirement. The acceleration in snow is unmatched. My wife’s Jeep Cherokee handles snow no better. In heavy downpours it flys down the road without drama. I have a 526HP rear drive beast that has scared the crap out of me on rainy summer days and I can only imagine this 550 in rear drive would be similar.
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I have never had an issue with 4 Matic in any MB. For me it’s a requirement. The acceleration in snow is unmatched. My wife’s Jeep Cherokee handles snow no better. In heavy downpours it flys down the road without drama. I have a 526HP rear drive beast that has scared the crap out of me on rainy summer days and I can only imagine this 550 in rear drive would be similar.
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I have never had an issue with 4 Matic in any MB. For me it’s a requirement. The acceleration in snow is unmatched. My wife’s Jeep Cherokee handles snow no better. In heavy downpours it flys down the road without drama. I have a 526HP rear drive beast that has scared the crap out of me on rainy summer days and I can only imagine this 550 in rear drive would be similar.
I have only 1 comment for those "after spending all his savings on car, the guy had nothing left for advanced driving lessons. "
That said, my econobox diesel managed do skid on dry asphalt with some sand on it. I did practice lot of ice driving, but that was over 30 years ago, so I was glad to notice that trained reactions stay for years. Just like bicycle driving.
Last edited by kajtek1; Feb 6, 2020 at 09:14 PM.
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From: SoCal. Desert
'16 E350, gone: '03 c230k
Thought I had posted yesterday but I guess it didn’t go thru…
I truly appreciate the responses and insight.
I prefer rear wheel or all wheel drive to front wheel drive. I believe CLA went to FWD? Wanted to make sure E class variants hadn’t gone that way.
I live in a smaller town and 85% of the miles I’ll be putting on the car will be in town, so gas mileage is a factor but not a show stopper. No diesel for me. Definitely interested in Fallen’s E550. Window sticker claims 17mpg city(?) which is doable, I’m not sure about 12~14mpg… I’d also prefer a reliable normally aspirated power plant.
A coworker had a W211 E550 and got rid of it after having to replace all 4 corners of the airmatic suspension one at a time. He loved the performance and the way it drove.
I’m looking for something sporty in the sense of a sports sedan – which I guess is still a little vague. I’m coming from an ‘03 c230k, on which I had a tune done, put on H&R springs/sways with Bilstein sport struts/shocks, 4-piston calipers up front/2-piston calipers on the rear, etc.
DFWdude!!! I still have an extra one of your hood ornaments! I hear you on the fuel efficiency of the newer and more powerful engines. A few years ago I went from a 2002 ~250hp V8 truck to a 2009 ~350hp truck and get the same if not a little better gas mileage.
You E550 guys – what mpg’s are you getting in city only driving? And on the highway?
LILBENZ230!!! Yes – long time no see. Yep, plan is to keep this as long or longer than the 230.
Right now I’m leaning towards a 2016 E350. Looking to check one out tomorrow with the sport package and premium package. Still eyeing Fallen’s E550 too.
Any more insight or advise is appreciated!
I truly appreciate the responses and insight.
I prefer rear wheel or all wheel drive to front wheel drive. I believe CLA went to FWD? Wanted to make sure E class variants hadn’t gone that way.
I live in a smaller town and 85% of the miles I’ll be putting on the car will be in town, so gas mileage is a factor but not a show stopper. No diesel for me. Definitely interested in Fallen’s E550. Window sticker claims 17mpg city(?) which is doable, I’m not sure about 12~14mpg… I’d also prefer a reliable normally aspirated power plant.
A coworker had a W211 E550 and got rid of it after having to replace all 4 corners of the airmatic suspension one at a time. He loved the performance and the way it drove.
I’m looking for something sporty in the sense of a sports sedan – which I guess is still a little vague. I’m coming from an ‘03 c230k, on which I had a tune done, put on H&R springs/sways with Bilstein sport struts/shocks, 4-piston calipers up front/2-piston calipers on the rear, etc.
DFWdude!!! I still have an extra one of your hood ornaments! I hear you on the fuel efficiency of the newer and more powerful engines. A few years ago I went from a 2002 ~250hp V8 truck to a 2009 ~350hp truck and get the same if not a little better gas mileage.
You E550 guys – what mpg’s are you getting in city only driving? And on the highway?
LILBENZ230!!! Yes – long time no see. Yep, plan is to keep this as long or longer than the 230.
Right now I’m leaning towards a 2016 E350. Looking to check one out tomorrow with the sport package and premium package. Still eyeing Fallen’s E550 too.
Any more insight or advise is appreciated!
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From: Dallas-Ft.Worth,TX
2016 E350 Sport
I’m looking for something sporty in the sense of a sports sedan – which I guess is still a little vague. I’m coming from an ‘03 c230k, on which I had a tune done, put on H&R springs/sways with Bilstein sport struts/shocks, 4-piston calipers up front/2-piston calipers on the rear, etc.
Oddly enough, a 1972, 442's 300hp is essentially the same as the W212 E350. (Except the 442's 455ci engine barely yielded 8 mpg.) At least it was a 2-door, frameless window "coupe." Let's be honest... The E350 (or E550) is none of this, with its extra doors, framed windows, and automatic transmission. Neither is the BMW 5-Series for that matter.
However, trading up from your C230K's 189hp, any W212 will be an eye opening "sleeper" experience. I thoroughly enjoy mine.
Just inspect the wood trim to be sure you will be happy with it. By now, any 2016 is likely beyond its 4-year factory warranty, and replacing ANY cosmetic item will be EXPENSIVE.Here is a snapshot of E350 mileage, on a 70-mile trip from urban St. Louis to a small town in mid-Illinois, 1st half city, 2nd half highway, 53 mpg avg.
Last edited by DFWdude; Feb 8, 2020 at 11:24 AM.
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
With your plan to keep this as long as your W203, I'd like to double down on my recommendation of RWD E350. No turbos. No 4Matic adding weight/complexity and reducing efficiency. Also a reminder that the light, glossy, burl walnut wood trim will fade. There are some threads here that seem to indicate this fading wood issue was resolved by the 2014 facelift but this is not the case. I looked at some 2016s for sale that had fading wood. You can get this replaced under factory warranty (but probably not under CPO if you go that route) but it will fade again.
Like you - I also had an M271 equipped C230K and the 302hp M276 in the E350 feels night/day difference. Much stronger. Also no real fuel efficiency penalty.
Note that most E350s have squared tire setups, but if you see one with the AMG split-spokes these are staggered. As far as the E350 being sporty, I would say that's subjective. It drives like a RWD car that feels smaller than it is. It is extremely competent. I wish the steering were heavier, though.
Like you - I also had an M271 equipped C230K and the 302hp M276 in the E350 feels night/day difference. Much stronger. Also no real fuel efficiency penalty.
Note that most E350s have squared tire setups, but if you see one with the AMG split-spokes these are staggered. As far as the E350 being sporty, I would say that's subjective. It drives like a RWD car that feels smaller than it is. It is extremely competent. I wish the steering were heavier, though.
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2013 E550 sedan
I can only tell you we get hand calculated 26 - 28mpg on highway trips and that would be mostly 80mph as traffic allows. We don't do enough city driving for me to give you an accurate read on that, though I will tell you that the car often will lug taller gears, fully loaded, down to 1200 rpm without down shifting - the low end torque of these engines is incredible...
One last comment I'll reiterate, since you definitely have "sport" in your blood - do not buy anything until you have driven a 4.7TT E550... You can always keep your foot out of it for more mileage, but I guaranty a big smile whenever you start pressing the go pedal For some folks "enough" is plenty, for others "more" is what scratches that "sport sedan" itch...
One last comment I'll reiterate, since you definitely have "sport" in your blood
- do not buy anything until you have driven a 4.7TT E550... You can always keep your foot out of it for more mileage, but I guaranty a big smile whenever you start pressing the go pedal For some folks "enough" is plenty, for others "more" is what scratches that "sport sedan" itch...
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From: Dallas-Ft.Worth,TX
2016 E350 Sport
If I understand it correctly, you can buy an E550 only with Airmatic suspension and 4-wheel drive. If keeping for several years, both would be deal-breakers for me, especially the air suspension. Owning one of those more than 10 years (4-years before you get it, then 6+ in your hands), then replacing all four corner airbags will cost more than the car is worth.
OP says he lives in a small town. After showing the handful of enthusiasts in a smal town what a beast the 550 is, there won't be many occasions to strut the stuff afterwards.
I'm more than happy with the puny, anemic 302 hp in the E350, instead, thanks.
OP says he lives in a small town. After showing the handful of enthusiasts in a smal town what a beast the 550 is, there won't be many occasions to strut the stuff afterwards.
I'm more than happy with the puny, anemic 302 hp in the E350, instead, thanks.
Last edited by DFWdude; Feb 8, 2020 at 02:15 PM.
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2013 E550 sedan
If I understand it correctly, you can buy an E550 only with Airmatic suspension and 4-wheel drive. If keeping for several years, both would be deal-breakers for me, especially the air suspension. Owning one of those more than 10 years (4-years used, then 6+ in your hands), then replacing all four corner airbags will cost more than the car is worth.
I'm more than happy with the puny, anemic 302 hp in the E350, instead, thanks.
I'm more than happy with the puny, anemic 302 hp in the E350, instead, thanks.
And it sounds like he is leaning 350 anyway, so maybe it's all moot...
