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I’m getting quoted $150 plus $25 for mount/dismount on one of my wheels with curb rash. I’d also like to know what disappointed you on the repair. I think my quote is from the same franchise (AWRS of Northern IL).
What about the wheel resto disappointed you? Quality looks good on my screen. And what was done to them? What refinishing process? Undercarriage looks good. Extra points for replacing and retaining all factory shielding, those matter.
Originally Posted by KEY08
I’m getting quoted $150 plus $25 for mount/dismount on one of my wheels with curb rash. I’d also like to know what disappointed you on the repair. I think my quote is from the same franchise (AWRS of Northern IL).
Sanded the spokes and barrel with coarse sandpaper to blend blemishes and to prep surface for power coating. However they didn't follow up with a finer grit and the sanding marks are visible thru the paint. You can't feel them, but the silver (or any metallic) is susceptible to that showing thru.
Even though they focused on the fronts... there's boogers here and there in the clear (likely not a very clean setup). In the lug holes there's still a little rust staining from the lugs. Within the center cap opening, barrel and back lips they left behind chipping and flaking of old paint. I had measured the runout and sharpied it on the inner lip. Not for them, but I wanted to know how bad they were before I sent them off. Well, they just cleared right over the writing, didn't even clean it off. They implied the entire wheel would be stripped and recoated... then when I picked them up they said they don't really touch the backs.
As far as straightening the wheel, we'll see when I throw them up and check. They may have pushed out some of the bends (hydraulic ram and dolly), but they definitely hammered the inner lip (lots of divots).
Overall, just a quick and dirty job, to make the front face look good. Granted, the wheels were pretty beat to begin with.... but that shouldn't affect the quality of work their putting out. I would have gladly paid another $50-60 per wheel if they were a little more meticulous.
As far as "vetting" them... the wheels they had in the "showroom" looked good. I thoroughly ask about their process and they said all the right things. Again, my expectations were too high. If someone brought their car in, left it for the day and came back they would be thrilled... at the appearance, cost and quick turnaround. Some of the issues I noted wouldn't be readily visible once the wheel and center cap are installed on the car. You'd have to looked closer than 2 ft away.
I'm bringing back two of the wheels because I found chips in the clear between the spokes.
and you can see the time, care and why they charge ~$300-400/wheel (straightening + refinish with machined face), less without straightening or just PC (no machine face). AWRS is a franchise, quality likely depends on location. I went to the Danbury, CT which is described as a "center or hub" capable of more than one of their mobile refinishers.
Dent Wizard was in the running, $175/wheel and they also described the process as I would have expected.
Those are expensive AMG rims. What's the part number on the back? I've had better luck getting refurb OEM rims and replicas. For my W211, they were much cheaper. The prices keep going down as the years go by and people aren't willing to spend that much on an older car. The refurb and replica ones were basically brand new looking, didn't look like any work was done to them. So far I've had better luck with replica ones than refurb OEM ones. I think the OEM ones cracked after about 2 years and then I just got replicas after that but it hasn't been quite 2 years yet on those and I haven't been driving that much in the last year so the jury is still out as to which ones are better. The again, the reason I got refurbed/replicas was because the OEM ones cracked.
Sanded the spokes and barrel with coarse sandpaper to blend blemishes and to prep surface for power coating. However they didn't follow up with a finer grit and the sanding marks are visible thru the paint. You can't feel them, but the silver (or any metallic) is susceptible to that showing thru.
Even though they focused on the fronts... there's boogers here and there in the clear (likely not a very clean setup). In the lug holes there's still a little rust staining from the lugs. Within the center cap opening, barrel and back lips they left behind chipping and flaking of old paint. I had measured the runout and sharpied it on the inner lip. Not for them, but I wanted to know how bad they were before I sent them off. Well, they just cleared right over the writing, didn't even clean it off. They implied the entire wheel would be stripped and recoated... then when I picked them up they said they don't really touch the backs.
As far as straightening the wheel, we'll see when I throw them up and check. They may have pushed out some of the bends (hydraulic ram and dolly), but they definitely hammered the inner lip (lots of divots).
Overall, just a quick and dirty job, to make the front face look good. Granted, the wheels were pretty beat to begin with.... but that shouldn't affect the quality of work their putting out. I would have gladly paid another $50-60 per wheel if they were a little more meticulous.
As far as "vetting" them... the wheels they had in the "showroom" looked good. I thoroughly ask about their process and they said all the right things. Again, my expectations were too high. If someone brought their car in, left it for the day and came back they would be thrilled... at the appearance, cost and quick turnaround. Some of the issues I noted wouldn't be readily visible once the wheel and center cap are installed on the car. You'd have to looked closer than 2 ft away.
I'm bringing back two of the wheels because I found chips in the clear between the spokes.
and you can see the time, care and why they charge ~$300-400/wheel (straightening + refinish with machined face), less without straightening or just PC (no machine face). AWRS is a franchise, quality likely depends on location. I went to the Danbury, CT which is described as a "center or hub" capable of more than one of their mobile refinishers.
Dent Wizard was in the running, $175/wheel and they also described the process as I would have expected.
.
wow! Thanks for that great write up with additional information. Very helpful.
geez. the factory alloy wheels Mercedes was using in the 70s, 80s and 90s were as good quality as you could buy, far better than the bulk of the aftermarket stuff out there unless you went with a premium brand like BBS. Ditto the wheels my late 80s/early 90s Volvos used, the OE wheels were better quality than 90% of the aftermarket crap (ok, with the exception of one model wheel Volvo used on their 940s, known as Aries, THEY were soft and very prone to bending). of course, those cars mostly used /55 to /70 series tires. and not the ultra-low profile /40 stuff we see today. the rims ARE intended to bend rather than break if subjected to a really hard jolt like a pot hole or curb, so they hold air.
Last edited by Left Coast Geek; 04-18-2021 at 04:45 PM.
Aside from the obvious that modern Benzes are not comparable to those of the 70s-90s, is there really an issue with the rims today? I tend to think it is more the low profile tires to blame.
We have pretty good roads here and I've never had an issue. This is my 5th Benz with AMG rims - 4 of them have been 18s with low profiles and 1 of them was a 17 with low profiles.
Aside from the obvious that modern Benzes are not comparable to those of the 70s-90s, is there really an issue with the rims today? I tend to think it is more the low profile tires to blame.
We have pretty good roads here and I've never had an issue. This is my 5th Benz with AMG rims - 4 of them have been 18s with low profiles and 1 of them was a 17 with low profiles.
You just have good roads. I've hit potholes that you can say give you the definition of bone jarring. Sometimes right afterwards, the wheel is no longer straight so you know you did something to the alignment. Bent/cracked several 18 inch rims with 40 series tires, I think about 4 cracked ones at this point and 3 bent ones. On the 17 inch rims with 45 series tires, only 2 bent ones so far, but I've only had that one for 5 years and didn't do much driving last year. On a previous car, never bent or cracked a rim, had 60 series tires.
You just have good roads. I've hit potholes that you can say give you the definition of bone jarring. Sometimes right afterwards, the wheel is no longer straight so you know you did something to the alignment. Bent/cracked several 18 inch rims with 40 series tires, I think about 4 cracked ones at this point and 3 bent ones. On the 17 inch rims with 45 series tires, only 2 bent ones so far, but I've only had that one for 5 years and didn't do much driving last year. On a previous car, never bent or cracked a rim, had 60 series tires.
So yeah, it's more the tires than the rims that are to blame. I am glad we have good roads here as this car would be hideous with any smaller rims and 60 series tires.
Aside from the obvious that modern Benzes are not comparable to those of the 70s-90s, is there really an issue with the rims today? I tend to think it is more the low profile tires to blame.
for what its worth, a W124 1993-1995 E320 isn't *that* different than a W212 E350 non-4Matic, if you ignore all the electronics. both are IRS with 5-way multilink rear suspension, and mcpherson strut based front suspension... the 124 has classic 'recirculating ball' steering while the 212 has electronic steering. sure, the 212 has a bunch more airbags, 7 gears instead of 4, and a more powerful V6 (300HP 3.5L V6 vs the 225HP 3.2L I6 in the E320). the biggest difference from a wheel perspective is the lower profile tires (245/45r17XL or 245/40r18 with a 25.7" OD vs 195/65R15 with a 25" OD) and heavier weight of the car (our 1994 E320 wagon is about 800 lb lighter than our 2016 e350 4matic wagon, both have the same basic payload, and other than wheelbase, overall dimensions are pretty close). the 124 wagon has hydropneumatic self leveling rear suspension, vs the airmatic in the 212 wagon. our 124 wagon has 280,000 miles, and is 27 years old and still has the original hydropneumatic piston shock/springs, although I'm sure the nitrogen spheres have been replaced at least once (a very easy job and fairly inexpensive part). I hear airmatic springs for the 212 wagons are pricey and need replacing every 60K miles whihc would have been every 2 years back when we commutted, we're retired now so we drive a LOT less.
Oh I didn't mean that the cars weren't similar on in terms of how they're engineered. I meant they're different in terms of how they're built. Cars like the W124 and W140 are just of a different era of build quality.. back when it truly was the best or nothing.
These new ones are just not like that. Luxury has become less about the quality of the work and more about the gadgetry.
Why yes it was, I had a TR6 at the time, I was also stupid enough to buy a TR7 and TR8! I always said they were a monument to my ability and stupidity, they were my two oldest children's first cars, my youngest got my '91 190E 2.6
First HS job I worked for a British Leyland dealer. Saw the last of the TR6s come in along with the first 7s. Dock workers unloading TR7s were used to narrower cars from BL. The first two model years; equipment squeezed and dented the door/rear quarter area on most. Transport company would halfa$$ fix them before delivery to each dealer. Even after a second trip to a body shop, the doors never closed correctly. I remember the sticker price on a new TR7 was about $1500 more than a loaded Camaro. Another time they dropped an XJ12 on its top and delivered it anyway. Someone used a hacksaw and removed part of the roof to drive it...broken blades were still on the floor.
Since you removed your rear subframe, may I ask what the WIS actually meant for bolts # 1a and 1s ( bushing ones ) ?
I attached 2 version WIS, same number but different year print.
.
attached also both the PDF
My 10 year plan ( if I keep my W212 pass 10 years ) is to replace all 4 big bushings on rear sub-frame and it freaked me out when I read the requirement/information as per 2017 and 2020 WIS.
Bolts 1a,2a and 1s installation
The 2017 WIS instruction : INSTALLATION : The thread in the frame floor assembly must be recut and then blown out.
The 2020 WIS instruction : Installation: Clean threads in frame floor assembly using compressed air and recut.
Which female thread is the WIS referring to ? The one on car body at boot or rear passenger seat, there about ?
or the frame floor is the Sub-Frame itself ?
Those are expensive AMG rims. What's the part number on the back? I've had better luck getting refurb OEM rims and replicas. For my W211, they were much cheaper. The prices keep going down as the years go by and people aren't willing to spend that much on an older car. The refurb and replica ones were basically brand new looking, didn't look like any work was done to them. So far I've had better luck with replica ones than refurb OEM ones. I think the OEM ones cracked after about 2 years and then I just got replicas after that but it hasn't been quite 2 years yet on those and I haven't been driving that much in the last year so the jury is still out as to which ones are better. The again, the reason I got refurbed/replicas was because the OEM ones cracked.
You know, given the amount of bends these wheels had I figured the tales of the "soft" 18" twin 5-spoke AMGs made in CZ or PL were true... When I looked at these, their all stamped Germany and no marking of Ronal or other possible OEM. They had runout ranging from 0.035" to 0.250".
As far as refurbs, I was seeing $400-500 per wheel... should be more expensive than similar refinish considering your bringing a "useable" core. With replicas [aftermarket], usually the quality is not the same... generally heavier and not as strong. Though in the case of the soft AMGs maybe their better.
for what its worth, a W124 1993-1995 E320 isn't *that* different than a W212 E350 non-4Matic, if you ignore all the electronics. both are IRS with 5-way multilink rear suspension, and mcpherson strut based front suspension... the 124 has classic 'recirculating ball' steering while the 212 has electronic steering. sure, the 212 has a bunch more airbags, 7 gears instead of 4, and a more powerful V6 (300HP 3.5L V6 vs the 225HP 3.2L I6 in the E320). the biggest difference from a wheel perspective is the lower profile tires (245/45r17XL or 245/40r18 with a 25.7" OD vs 195/65R15 with a 25" OD) and heavier weight of the car (our 1994 E320 wagon is about 800 lb lighter than our 2016 e350 4matic wagon, both have the same basic payload, and other than wheelbase, overall dimensions are pretty close). the 124 wagon has hydropneumatic self leveling rear suspension, vs the airmatic in the 212 wagon. our 124 wagon has 280,000 miles, and is 27 years old and still has the original hydropneumatic piston shock/springs, although I'm sure the nitrogen spheres have been replaced at least once (a very easy job and fairly inexpensive part). I hear airmatic springs for the 212 wagons are pricey and need replacing every 60K miles whihc would have been every 2 years back when we commutted, we're retired now so we drive a LOT less.
SLS struts are now $$$.. should have bought a couple a few years ago when I still had access thru Worldpac and good pricing. But our E320 is near end of its life and I have a donor wagon sitting in the woods to raid for parts if needed.
Since you removed your rear subframe, may I ask what the WIS actually meant for bolts # 1a and 1s ( bushing ones ) ?
I attached 2 version WIS, same number but different year print.
attached also both the PDF
My 10 year plan ( if I keep my W212 pass 10 years ) is to replace all 4 big bushings on rear sub-frame and it freaked me out when I read the requirement/information as per 2017 and 2020 WIS.
Bolts 1a,2a and 1s installation
The 2017 WIS instruction : INSTALLATION : The thread in the frame floor assembly must be recut and then blown out.
The 2020 WIS instruction : Installation: Clean threads in frame floor assembly using compressed air and recut.
Which female thread is the WIS referring to ? The one on car body at boot or rear passenger seat, there about ?
or the frame floor is the Sub-Frame itself ?
Thanks
I didn't remove the subframe, that's future plan.... if I get around to it. I believe those long bolts (4 which go thru the subframe bushings into the chassis) are thread-forming bolts, i.e., they form/cut when they are first installed. Sometimes those bolts have a tapered tip with notches in the thread to help cut/form. Others are triangular in cross-section, instead of circular like traditional bolts (referred to as trilobular bolts).
The replacement bolts may be traditional and hence why MB wants you to cut the threads using an appropriate tap. I certainly would get the those bolts before hand and try fitting them without the subframe installed to get a sense of how they'll go in.
*edit*
Maybe the newer WIS implies the bolts will "re-cut" so the threads only needed blowing/cleaning out. Hard to say without seeing it firsthand.
Last edited by bmwpowere36m3; 04-18-2021 at 09:44 PM.
You know, given the amount of bends these wheels had I figured the tales of the "soft" 18" twin 5-spoke AMGs made in CZ or PL were true... When I looked at these, their all stamped Germany and no marking of Ronal or other possible OEM. They had runout ranging from 0.035" to 0.250".
As far as refurbs, I was seeing $400-500 per wheel... should be more expensive than similar refinish considering your bringing a "useable" core. With replicas [aftermarket], usually the quality is not the same... generally heavier and not as strong. Though in the case of the soft AMGs maybe their better.
These wheels are P/N: A2124013602
Seems like the ones that are $170-195 are always out of stock. I wonder if you call them if they would let you know if they ever come into stock. Everyone else who has them in stock is at $400+
You know, given the amount of bends these wheels had I figured the tales of the "soft" 18" twin 5-spoke AMGs made in CZ or PL were true... When I looked at these, their all stamped Germany and no marking of Ronal or other possible OEM. They had runout ranging from 0.035" to 0.250".
As far as refurbs, I was seeing $400-500 per wheel... should be more expensive than similar refinish considering your bringing a "useable" core. With replicas [aftermarket], usually the quality is not the same... generally heavier and not as strong. Though in the case of the soft AMGs maybe their better.
These wheels are P/N: A2124013602
Wow, I think that's rare, my last two Benz's were Polish wheels, these two are both Czech, I have the eight spokes on the luxury and the AMG on the sport. I actually bent two of the eight spokes and only one of the AMG's so far.
First one I bent I bought one and sent the bent one back in the box like a core, then I wondered if the new wheel was originally more damaged than the one I sent in, It was a bit shinier than stock and didn't really match well, I wet sanded and reshot the clear in flat.
Second time I took my wheel to a local straightener, that seemed to work better, as I got my own wheel back, well done. The AMG I bought I needed to take to the same guy to straighten on arrival, it was out .125 thousandths and an 1/8 inch is a lot.
I had never bent a Benz wheel on the last nine cars, but they were not 40 and 45 series tires.
Here's what life in the northeast has done to the airmatic compressor... it was still working when I took it apart. Based on Xentry the compressor has run for 1,165,447 seconds. In other words, it ran roughly 1 minute for every 5 miles driven. My plan was to rebuild it with a kit from: https://www.bagpipingandy.com/index.html However its only applicable to earlier generation pumps [wabco].
Sourced a used compressor from a wagon, which was in great shape. I regenerated the silica beads by baking them for a couple hours... even though they looked dry, they lost 20% weight (assuming all water). A couple new brackets from MB, wagon one is different, and this is what went back in:
Wasn't a fan of the chrome handle inserts.. so off they went. Started by removing the handles and using a heat gun to soften the double-sided tape. Once off, the remaining residue was cleaned with decal remover [solvent]. Finished up by polishing the area to remove any scratches.
This is the inner door panel, Mercedes literally attached everything to it... so it goes in as one assembly. Very similar design concept with the rear subframe and front subframe/powerplant, etc... Have you wondered why they put the ECU on top of the engine? Makes for an interesting removal. Maybe I'll put together some more info on removing the inner panel as I didn't see the procedure fully documented in WIS and there's a few gotchas.
04-18-2021, 09:38 AM
