machinemanjr

Hi everyone:

I have the well documented wobble/pulsation when braking hard due to the factory rotors warping. I have read here that several of you all have replaced the pads and rotors with aftermarket supplied parts by Akebono, Brembo etc.

Has any aftermarket parts solved this issue? I want to resolve this on my car and want to try to avoid being the guinea pig! with any particular product. Anyone care to share their experiences/recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Plutoe

dont waste your time on aftermarket brake products---use MB parts for happy driving
Where did you read the so called documented bla bla and what if any are the stats as most forums are trumpy rumor mongers

machinemanjr

Your comments are not helpful.

If you read this sub, you will see demonstrated evidence, over and over of MB factory rotors on AVANTGARDE equipped models warping over 10-25k miles.

Arrie

I have original factory rotors still on my 180000+ miles E550 and brakes are smoothest they can be. I have the third set of AutoZone pads on with much lowered amount of dust compared to OEM pads.

But my car is a 2010 model Avantgarde built in may 2009. I think since my car was made Mercedes changed brake rotor supplier.

bmwpowere36m3

Brake pulsation "seems" like a common complaint. I wouldn't refer to it as warping, as that is much less frequent in occurrence in general (not MB-specific).

Now as far as brake pulsation on the W212, I've experienced it on rotors that still have life as far as thickness... at least another pad's worth. In addition we've done a few W212 brake jobs, just because of pulsation complaint, rotors and pads still had life. A common observation on at least a few was, the "inner" side of the rotor being heavily grooved (connecting the cross-drilled holes in a circle) and the cross-drilled holes themselves being plugged. My first thought would be caliper and/or pad sticking causing some uneven wear. I haven't found that to be true on the W212s I've seen.

We've also seen it on a few other chassis with cross-drilled rotors... so is that the connection?

At the end of the day, I don't think there's a "solution" as members have posted using other brands with varying levels of success. So I take that as some statistical distribution (as the nature of forums can be skewed from the "norm") that would be similar in just using MB brake components. I would just stick with MB or known OE/OEM suppliers and make sure the caliper and pads are "free" to move. That'll depend on the caliper configuration if its a single piston sliding or fixed. Essentially you want any moving surface to be free of rust and greased if required.

Left Coast Geek

While I've experienced plenty of pulsing brakes (a 2001 Ford E150 van was *AWFUL*, as were many 80s/90s Volvos), not one of them had a measurably warped rotor. Instead, they had uneven brake compound deposits on the rotor, causing uneven friction leading to said pulsing. A proper brake break-in procedure with several heat annealing cycles will greatly reduce this if done whenever you get new brake pads.

1. find a wide open empty road where you can repeatedly hard brake from 30 and 60 MPH without anyone behind you. I use coast route 1 north of town on a early weekday morning.
2. go 30-40 MPH, brake hard (but not hard enough to trigger ABS) down to 10 MPH but DO NOT STOP, and immediately accelerate back to 30-40, do this 4-5 times in a row.
3. drive 10-15 minutes without any braking to let the brakes fully cool down.
4. go 50-60 MPH, brake hard down to 10 MPH (again DO NOT STOP or trigger ABS), and accelerate back to 50-60 and do this 4-5 times.
5. drive 10-15 minutes to let the brakes cool.

in general, try and avoid holding the brakes firmly at a full stop after hard braking, as its pressing hot pads firmly against the hot rotors that causes these deposits to form which lead to pulsing brakes.

nota_amg

1. Feel pulsation
2. Replace with factory parts from FCPEuro.com
3. Wear them out and have them replaced for free under lifetime warranty...for evar!!!
4. Profit...

alan_e550

I have the same issue with my 11’ e550. Front rotors pulsate on hard braking above 40mph. A user on these forums recommended swapping the calipers from a 2012-2013 e550 (must be from a 4m model) as MB upgraded the calipers in those years. Unfortunately I’ve been unable to find a set and a user on these forums tried to scam me as well for them.

ill be doing what nota said: buying parts from fcp eurp and replacing them with the warranty

KEY08

2014 E550 with stock brakes. What is all this pulsation you speak of? In all seriousness I have seen the complaint posts many times and simply attribute it to improper brake use. There is nothing wrong with these brakes if properly bedded from the start (see above Left Coast Geek) . I think it's all in people's heads.

Arrie

Your instructions for “bedding” the pads is ridiculous”. All I have done on my E class and S class is to drive it just about 30 mph (speed limit is 25 in my area) and apply brakes 3-4 times. And I do this just to make the pads are to the rotor and wear thru some of the grooves on the rotors. Not thru all grooves. That will come with time.

If it is about the pad material baking on the rotor then the pad material is bad and some other, like AutozZone Gold ceramic should be used. These Fancy Akebono and such names are not better. It’s just the name as “Akebono” surely sounds better than “AutoZone” but I have yet to find better pads than the Autozone ceramic pads are. Now speaking about brakes for racing purposes is whole another topic and I’m sure Akebono and others shine there.

The main thing with this is that there should not be uneven , if any, brake pad material on the rotors, period! And if there is any with uneven amounts large enough to cause brake pulsation then it is severe problem with brake pad material.

My take is that brake pulsation is rotor warping or uneven wear issue 100%. If someone finds more brake pad material in places it probably is in areas where the brake pads lose full contact with rotor because the rotor is warped.

Mud

There's several choices out there as you can see. But don't overlook stuck caliper pins or a caliper piston not working properly.
In my case after having an uneven wear issue I replaced the front drilled rotors with solid blanks plus I paid special attention to pins and pistons. No super fancy stuff and zero issues in the last 3-4 years.
This is what I did on my 2011 E350 - E550 has different components.
E350 Brake Work

nota_amg

Nope, not true. For brakes to function properly there must be a proper transfer of pad material to the surface of the rotor. This provides the optimum bite of the pad to the rotor. Uneven application of pad material is the issue with the "pulsation" in the E550 brakes. The rotors are true, but there is a high-spot of pad material caused by getting the brakes very hot by overusing them and then setting stopped with your foot on the pedal. When you are sitting there with your foot on the brake pedal, pod material is deposited in a slightly thicker layer. This "pad-shaped" transfer is proud of the rotor face, so you feel it "pulsating" when the rotor rotates past the high spot. Then in a crewel twist of fate, every time you stop from then on, that high spot will be the point where the rotor grabs and stops the car, again, you're sitting with your foot on the brake pedal, in the same spot as before, transferring more material to the rotor face. It's a vicious cycle, and if not stopped and corrected with a proper bedding cycle and proper brake use, it will come back. This issue is 100% driver caused and not a function of faulty brakes. "Your take" is just that, your take, not based on facts or science, but how you "feel". Sorry Bud, but you're gonna need to do a little more research.

nota_amg

Pfffttt!!! You should see my bed-in process, mine is much more aggressive...

Arrie

I need no more research. I have put 165000 miles on my car and used brakes in every possible way. Very fast highway driving with sudden very heavy brake use stops to full stop with maximum heat generation and staying on brakes. No deposit on rotors from pads to cause pulsation. Have driven in city traffic in big cities standing in lights without wheels moving. No issues with brakes. I'm running the third set of pads still on the same OEM original rotors.

Brakes do not need special bedding etc. All you need is to make sure pads are in contact with rotors and not hanging out too far. When using old rotors with new pads the only "bedding" is to apply brakes to get the pads wear to the "lip" that has worn on the rotors. Anything else, get rotors that don't warp up and pulsate brakes.

rapidoxidation

This reminds me of an oil thread.
Color me on the side of brake pad deposits. Warped rotors are rare to the point of irrelevant unless you regularly turn your rotors into a dull glow of red at the bottom of long grades. However, stopping with your foot stomped on the brake pedal will quickly leave deposits on hot brake rotors.
IMHO, YMMV, and all that.

bmwpowere36m3

While I always try to perform a bed-in... I know I've also NOT done it, with no ill "effects". Before my father retired, a typical brake job ended with a trip up and down our dead-end street. Definitely no 60-10 stops and we never had issues or customer complaints. My thought, is the process is to extract the best possible pad transfer (even) on the rotors and thus 100% brake performance vs. 90% (made up number). I believe pad transfer (even) happens over time anyway, just longer and by bedding-in some variables are controlled and its completed quicker.

What actually I find surprising is the mileage you've got on the rotors... that's impressive. Makes me think either mostly highway or very light brake user. At the same time you've been thru 3 pad sets... must be some "soft" pads

My pad bed-in:

• a few moderate stops from 40 mph to warm up brakes
• multiple 60-10 mph hard stops, just short of ABS engagement, till you smell the brakes and brakes begin to fade (could be 3-8 depending on car/brakes)
  • when I did track days in the M3, I'd stop from 80 mph with track pads (super aggressive) 6-10 times, at night and empty freeway, sparks flying from the wheels... exciting
• cruise for 5-10 minutes without using brakes or fully stopping (avoid spot pad transfer and let brake system cool)

ygmn

What does OWNERS MANUAL say about brake pad bed in blah blah....???

those who feel pulsation...do you have drilled and slotted rotors?

Drilled & Slotted rotors will make noise and you can feel pulses when hard braking....
Check tech articles on EBC: EBC Technical Brake Articles (ebcbrakes.com)

DFWdude

...And, what has the dealer told you to do after they change your brake pads? Nothing? Why nothing?

I have changed the brake pads four times and rotors once on my W203 C-Class (pads and rotors are pads and rotors, guys... nothing different between makes of cars). Once, I performed a 45ish to stop in front of my home, more to develop confidence that my repair was good than to bed-in the pads. Beyond that one time, I've not done any of these aggressive procedures, and I've not experienced any negative effects.

I'm not convinced any of this is required. If it were, then the dealers and repair shops would share more of this information with customers, and it would be more engrained among car owner culture, like break-in procedures for new cars, etc.

nc211

I will be going to solid rotors when I get the energy to do this project again myself. I replaced the MB rotors at 25k with new MB pad/rotors myself back in 2017 because of this pulsing issue. I figured they were warped by the previous owner. All was good for about 5,000 miles and then they started to do it again ever so slightly. It comes and goes and I think has a lot to do with buildup transfer from the pad to the rotor because of the drilled out holes. I think the hole edges scrape too much pad material off for it to clear the surface between the pad and the rotor. And I think it gets jammed up in the holes and then baked on. I can actually see pad material stick in the holes, and when I cleaned them off with a hose and strayer, they’re better. I’d rather just have solid rotors and maybe a less-carbon based pad to match. Will likely look to aftermarket. I’m at 52kish now I think on the car.

nota_amg

no one said it was necessary. you don't NEED to do anything at all, the material will transfer at what ever rate you allow while driving based on your driving/stopping style and aggression. My point, is that bedding in pads is a real thing. If you are a normal consumer/owner, you will never need to do anything but replace what's worn out. But, if you want the best performance and longevity out of your brakes and you use them to their true potential, bedding in the pad properly will give you the best results, period.

As my friend's dad used to say: "Youuuu, do what you want!"

LILBENZ230

I had to do 4 brake jobs on my W203 as well and never did the procedure and that car never suffered this pulsation.

My E350 has 13,000 miles on the front pads/rotors and I don't have any noticeable pulsation. If going to solid rotors instead of cross drilled is the answer, though, that seems easy enough if it ever does become an issue.

Left Coast Geek

it certainly depends on how and where you drive. I drive a lot on mountain roads, with lotsa nd lots of turns and short straights, and especially if I'm alone and in the mood, I'm on the brakes pretty hard going into turns, and on the throttle coming out of them. I remember my old 1989 Jetta GLI (bought new), I would go through the front rotors with each set of pads and tires, about once a year, but I drove that car like a maniac when I long distance commuting 40K miles/year including said mountain roads daily. now in my mid 60s, I've slowed down a little but I still like to amp it up once in awhile, haven't had the w212 long enough to know how its brakes will hold up, its only got like 30k miles on it.

Left Coast Geek

btw, as much as bedding in the pads to the rotors, the process I described above is about heat cycling the pads and rotors, to bake out the volatiles from the pads so they don't get pressed onto the rotors when you come to a full stop with hot brakes.

I over did the heat cycling once, the first time I did front brakes on a 2001 Ford Econoline van, got them so hot in the 60-10-60-10 phase that they were smoking, and next time it was in the shop for scheduled maintenance, the mechanic commented the brakes looked like they'd overheated, but when he took it for the test drive, he declared they were working fine and to let it go.... Indeed the new rotors had turned pretty deep blue, I had not done this heat cycle when the van was new, and those first factory brakes had picked up a bad case of the throbs on a mountain trip that never let up, but the replacement brakes, also Ford factory, never gave me any grief.

I'm also a firm believer in using the transmission for engine braking on downgrades and such as I've had brakes completely fade on me in the past coming down steep grades... One time we came down Old Priest Grade on route 120 in the Sierra in a '71 VW "Breadbox' camper van that was heavily loaded, and being much more naive back then, didn't get it in low enough gear to manage the speed (downshifting a VW van stick from 2-1 while rolling is very hard due to the massively sloppy 10 foot long linkage involved), and completely lost the brakes at the bottom such that we had to run the stop sign... that was truly a scary moment, but as I realized I wasn't going to be able to stop even with both feet on the brake pedal, I could at least see that noone was coming either way and we got away with it. I later practiced double-clutching that van so I could rev match into 1st, it was NOT easy to keep your toe on the brakes while hitting the throttle with your heel and clutching! Thankfully they built a bypass on that stretch of road as it was one of the hairiest hills I've ever been up or down, with 17-20% grade and about 1.8 miles long.

S-Prihadi

My take on brakes.
Due to severe traffic jam in my city, my 1st complete brake pads change front and back occurred at 20,000 KM and while brake pad friction material thickness still 45% - 50% remaining.
I would love to wait till 75% friction material consumed, but never till brake pad sensor activated, but I replaced them anyway.
My front brake pad is MB standard one and it is from Akebono ( front ) and from ATE ( rear ).
I am on a 344mm drilled rotor with 4 pistons as standard for the E400 front ones.

My driving style in open road will eat rotor/s thickness fast, today at 28,700 KM front rotor thickness is already down 1.2mm from a 2mm limit. So 0.8mm more to go and it won't exceed 50,000KM life.
Front Thickness new 32mm , limit 30mm.
Rear rotor new 22mm(corrected), limit 19.4mm. Now I am at 21.1mm or 0.9mm consumed. I dont understand why MB sets 2.6mm consumption limit for rear while front gets 2mm.

Anyway, for drilled rotor owners ......do exercise cleaning the drilled holes from brake pad dust and rust at the un-seen side, the one with the black dust cover.
You will be surprised that while the drilled holes visible to you , wheel bolt side, can be clean, it is not the case for the hidden side.
Those kinda-choking deposit on the drilled holes unseen side is bad for the brakes and also caused un-even brake pressure on rotor and pulsation like vibration.
If you take a look closely at MUD brake rotor change post and this photo of his un-seen side of the rotor https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c08e9a33c4.jpg
don't only pay attention to the surface finish of the rotor, but take a good look at the drilled holes.

I clean all my drilled rotor holes and the middle venting channel with 10BAR pressurized air quite often to keep it healthy.
I emphasized 10 BAR / 147 psi is because I do not use regular air compressor ( +-100 psi ) but I use my scuba tank air and it feeds 10 BAR to my air-blower gun.
The while-on-the-road maintenance I usually have to perform after a good car washing and then car never move for say 4-7 days, is to brake hard to remove all the surface rust on the rotor.

My previous car/s if ever I got wrapped rotor is usually : a very hard worked-out brakes and super hot and then suddenly I hit lots of water puddle and rotors got sudden cooled down.

As for us OLD eyes , I suggest when you remove your wheel-tire, do take photos of the brake pad as part of regular observation and any un-even wear can be spotted on a 27" PC screen.
I remove my wheel-tire surely more than 10 times a year... LOL, so looking at brake system condition and cleaning them drilled holes and venting channel is often done.

Now for those wanting to measure drilled rotor thickness , if possible do not use a venier caliper if you want 0.1 mm accuracy, at the least use a micrometer if not a thickness gauge and do measure at various points
Venier caliper has its limitation due to them drilled holes screwing up the reading and the most outer rim of the rotor itself is thicker than the consumed/braking surface.

Happy wobble free braking boys....

leardriver

I have heard that theory over and over, that brake rotors don't warp. I have a brake lathe and have turned 1,000's of rotors that were warped 10-20 thousands of an inch. I've never seen the machine take off brake pads deposits.
Driving behavior influences rotor warping greatly.