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Thanks once again S-Prihadi. Could you do me a favor to use your icarsoft to check the refrigerant pressure as well as the evaporator temperature when the engine is running at p shift?
In my icarsoft, the pressure is about 11 to 12 bar and the evaporator is always over 30C. Apart from the faulty n70b1 connection, I suspect my refrigerant is low, making unable to make any cold air.
DISCUSSION 1 : Blending Air Flap
Find in your iCarsoft MB v3.0 the menu where you can see the air distribution/belnding flaps movement and position. I recall my v2.0 has it and yours should too and I think your V3.0 may be able to do
actuation, since it claimed to be bi-directional ...yes ?
DISCUSSION 2 : The N70b1 interior temperature thermistor.
Observe the description....WITHOUT CAN as in CAN-BUS. So it is using LIN. ( el-cheapo slower data communication type/method/protocol...whatever the proper term is )
I suspect, and PROBABLE ( but not guaranteed), that the hardwire for the temp sensor is below :
N70 means Overhead Control Panel. N70/3 is just the variation of the same thing.
DO note, 3rd party scanner can ID a module or sensor on that module by the wrong name/part-number. N70/b1 means module N70 and its b1 sensor, same as N70/3b1. If N70 is Jack, N70/3 is John, both are OCP.
Now, I gathered all I can on the airconditioner system. Convert it to PDF if you so wish.
I do not believe a sensor on the OCP can effect the HVAC to any greater extend than a mere correction value, it can't make your HVAC one side hotter.
Sensor at OCP gives sun radiation level I think.
Good luck.....
PS : Me will also try more reading on the HVAC and see what I can find out.
Million thanks. You are a super pro. Your info sheets are so useful to a newbie me.
Well, if your scanner can't see N70 even if your N70 is the CAN BUS type, there might be a chance that it does not yet qualify as a MODULE and it can not be seen by even MB Xentry.
A MODULE does more things. So perhaps it is only about CAN-BUS communication available for your car, where in mine is only LIN....and both of them are still junction board ... he he he
Originally Posted by S-Prihadi
W212,
You are in luck, I think I can explain what N70 ( Overhead Control Panel ) is in good detail.
It so happened I was stripping down Front SAM N10/1 wiring diag for components/options which are not found in my car, as such I can spot what N70 ( N70, N70/2 , N70/3 same same ) is actually is.
01. N70 is NOT a module in some cars. I repeat, you can not scan for N70 in some cars, it does not exist for cars other than the one with option 414 SLIDING ROOF which uses CAN BUS to the OCP.
So one has to adjust his troubleshooting method.
02. For the N70 without CAN BUS, which my car is........ there is no dedicated fuse for N70 junction board. Let's call it junction board.
For its interior light, N70 get constant power (30) from Circuit 58d of Front SAM N10/1 at connector A pin 1 of N70. This also feeds Rain-Light sensor B38/2.
This constant power 30 is pumped out from N10/1 Front SAM from its connector 13D pin 9.
Circuit 58d is also known as Instrument Panel Connector Sleeve.
For a special +12Volt power feed, N70 at connector A pin 1 get power from N10/1 Front SAM connector 13D pin 3 which is actually from N22/7 HVAC control module. So N10/1 Front SAM is only a broker here.
03. So, which modules uses the physical service of thi Junction Board N70 OCP ?
For my car :
- Using LIN, it is the Rain/Light sensor B38/2
- Using LIN, it is the Dimming Inside rearview mirror A67
- Using hardwire for signals 1,2,3,4 of buttons of Control Module of Panoramic Sunroof A98 which is at OCP.
- Using hardwire for the N70/b1 interior temperature sensor actual installation location.
So, where does N70/b1 interior temperature sensor wire run from and to ? ( for a car with NON CAN-BUS N70 OCP )
From N70 connector A, pin 2 and 3 ( NCT- and NCT+ ) goes to Front SAM N10/1 connector 13D pin 7 and 5 and then out again to HVAC module N22/7 at N10/1 Front SAM connector 5C pin 13 and 14.
See cordinate 44 upwards
See attached WORD.docx of SAM10/1 Sheet 4 of 10, stripped down for my car and non stripped down version.
The only way to pass you guys a non compressed JPEG is to either zipped it or keep it in Word.docx and you guys can zoom all you like.
Oky doky...... enjoy the reading
ADD : Can your scanner see N70 OCP ? Now that you mentioned you have option 414 sliding roof and your OCP N70 is the CAN BUS type ?
I am very curious
I took a whole day to read your posts. Very interesting and pleased to have your help.
BTW, I am not able to locate the pins as mentioned in your post (see pics)
Where are they. My OCP and front SAM are shown below, can you tell please?
Connector numbers are usually at the connector itself or near it. I never tear down OCP, but the rear SAM I done so.
Some you must use magnifying glass to see.
Below is a front SAM sample from Ebay. I dont know for which car model.
You best DO NOT touch the FRONT SAM. Its not easy to remove out of its box and that thing is expensive and need MB Xentry programming if you ever damaged and needs a new one.
Do not rush the troubleshooting. Be patient and do least intrusive ( tear down ) as much as possible.
If your N70 OCP is confirmed a CAN-BUS type, no use even thingking how to trace the thermistor sensor hardwire from N10/1 Front SAM, ...I already showed you in earlier post there is no hard wiring for the thermistor, unlike
the non-CAN Bus N70 OCP. Trace the circuit board slowly if you want, who knows cold solder is the culprit.
If you want to be certain that your N70 is a CAN-BUS type or not, it is easy.
When you get connector A male identified at N70, see how many wires the incoming female connector has ? IF Without CAN-BUS connector A female has more wires.... total 8, look at the schematic.
CAN-BUS version N70 only has 5 wires at connector A female.
If indeed a CAN-BUS N70 OCP you have, too bad.... that is another level of difficulty and an oscilloscope is neeeded just to see the data signal and you wont know
what the "words/command/meaning" of that data
in addition to the excellent guidance above you may want to take an hour and go over your OCP more closely.
RECAP:
Accurate OCP Temp is not reaching HVAC
OCP + HVAC CAN are functional
10kNTC ok the OCP Temp section
I'd concentrate on this section as the source of Temp that is then put over the network. Don't just assume that thermistor is ok so Temp is ok and concentrate on Com's being bad.
transistor, regulator or chip... no schematic... no picnic
See that ...:
1- the micro fan is spinning or not (ie. pwr)?
2- measure live voltage at thermistor pins
3- do a visual on discreate parts, solders, crusties
4- poke around transistors/regs for voltage > This will give you a sense of confidence if Temp sensor is sleeping or working.
FAILURE Scenario:
The tiny vaccum fan motor gets stuck and shorts out its tiny power supply. That cuts off power to NTC thermistor that reads open, meaning low: -50°C.
symetrical Pwr to I/F chip + heat signs
Do a good visual for issues of this section
Read chip markings, Google pinouts
poke for voltage on both caps
check all PCB connectors around OCP
You are looking for something obvious like a missing voltage, physical damage... knowing the 10k thermistor is good is not enough to rule out OCP as good.
Missing OCP DTC....
What does HVAC Module say about OCP Temp while OCP is all disconnected? Is HVAC able to report a "missing sensor DTC" ??
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 09-06-2021 at 07:58 PM.
W212 asked : Is my OCP a non-CAN BUS type as it could be seen by scanner? It is a CAN BUS type, and that means OCP can be read as a "hardware" or module.... that is good news for those who has this set up.
OCP is N70 .... why you mentioned some post ago that you can't read/find OCP/N70 ?
RECAP:
you want to find what causes your HVAC module not to read your working OCP Temp.
1- HVAC board
2- OCP connector
3- CAN-B wiring
This whole exercise is to find the problem as quickly as possible by funneling down possibilities.
My odds are as sorted above.
1-HVAC
I don't recall seeing your HVAC circuit board. Pull it out and look for obvious signs. Give us some good pics of components and connectors.
2-OCP
Finish looking closely at your OCP connector solders. OCP Temp being ok does not means the information is able to leave the board. Your OCP has signs of heat, take a close look to acquire confidence.
3-CAN/LIN....
If both circuit boards are good you'll be chasing a network wiring issue, not the easiest.
+++++++ Q... Am I correct that my OCP do not have any problem, but just the HAVC may have something wrong so it gives out -50c?
A... almost yes but the devil's in the details. The Temp value could be going nowhere. You can't assume OCP is all good therefore HVAC has failed... no to that shortcut, only a stronger suspicion against HVAC.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 09-07-2021 at 01:48 PM.
It would be nice if someone with an iCarsoft can verify the interior temp reading under the CCU, i.e., its not an erroneous reading due to scanner. I'll check with Xentry later, but that's not necessarily helpful. If the OCP is reporting the correct temperature value, then I'd suspect a CAN issue and/or CCU.
W212 asked : Is my OCP a non-CAN BUS type as it could be seen by scanner? It is a CAN BUS type, and that means OCP can be read as a "hardware" or module.... that is good news for those who has this set up.
OCP is N70 .... why you mentioned some post ago that you can't read/find OCP/N70 ?
Sorry for confusing. Because the scanner is very new to me, I can not manage to fully operate it until days ago I found that it could read N70. Sorry!
It would be nice if someone with an iCarsoft can verify the interior temp reading under the CCU, i.e., its not an erroneous reading due to scanner. I'll check with Xentry later, but that's not necessarily helpful. If the OCP is reporting the correct temperature value, then I'd suspect a CAN issue and/or CCU.
Yes, so the first thing I am going to do is to take a closer look at the circuit board of HVAC (CCU, right?)..... hope I can find some clues....
I just connected the iCarSoft EU Pro I have to the W212 w/o starting the engine, and reviewed the AC and OCP module temperatures after the car had been in the garage for @5 hours, i.e. not completely cold from a nice run .
I wish I got the temperatures Kjatek1 suggested, i.e. all sensors the same, BUT I did notice that N70B1 shows -58 F (-50 C) while the OCP module showed 95 F plus fan OFF. The AC is working wonders (l usually run it @72 F) either on the highway or stop/go traffic, so I assume the difference between the two reported temperature is not influencing its behavior (yet?)
Also, noticed that the EVAP temperature @101F while the cluster temperature was 98F, and the external temperature read 99F, and the OCP 95F. Let us review them in the morning after a few more hours in the garage.
+++++++++++++ Morning Update ++++++++++++
Another static test, i.e. engine off, after overnight sitting in the garage
From the AC module
B10/6 87.62 F
B10/4 87,62 F
B10/31 88.70 F
B10/32 88.52 F
B10/35 88.34 F
B10/36 88.70 F
N70b1 - 58.0 F
From the OCP module
Temp 85.10 F
Fan ON (engine off, driver's door open)
Forgot where I got the following two:
B11/4 98.6 F <--- Coolant Temperature Sensor, it seems odd to me.
B14 86.0 F
Except for the coolant temperature sensor (and fuel system temperature), these sensors are all about the same value as Kjatek1's test suggested.
I would take some data after I take the car out today , so it is at operating temperature. I am also interested to see if I get the odd, still unexplained, compressor data I got on the W211
I just connected the iCarSoft EU Pro I have to the W212 w/o starting the engine, and reviewed the AC and OCP module temperatures after the car had been in the garage for @5 hours, i.e. not completely cold from a nice run .
I wish I got the temperatures Kjatek1 suggested, i.e. all sensors the same, BUT I did notice that N70B1 shows -58 F (-50 C) while the OCP module showed 95 F plus fan OFF. The AC is working wonders (l usually run it @72 F) either on the highway or stop/go traffic, so I assume the difference between the two reported temperature is not influencing its behavior (yet?)
Also, noticed that the EVAP temperature @101F while the cluster temperature was 98F, and the external temperature read 99F, and the OCP 95F. Let us review them in the morning after a few more hours in the garage.
Thanks juanmor. Your scanner readings of -50c n70b1 with a nice working ac tells that the ac system may ignore some illogical reading and still work fine.
Any other members who have icarsoft could help do a check on n70b1?
Thanks juanmor. Your scanner readings of -50c n70b1 with a nice working ac tells that the ac system may ignore some illogical reading and still work fine.
Any other members who have icarsoft could help do a check on n70b1?
... or iCarsoft scanner may not read PID: "n70b1" properly as eluded earlier by "BMW".
Despite perhaps false evidence from iCarsoft, the ACC module may well be reading this sensor normally.
- - In this case you go back to square one, fixing a driver side flap actuator.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 09-08-2021 at 08:41 PM.
I just connected the iCarSoft EU Pro I have to the W212 w/o starting the engine, and reviewed the AC and OCP module temperatures after the car had been in the garage for @5 hours, i.e. not completely cold from a nice run .
I wish I got the temperatures Kjatek1 suggested, i.e. all sensors the same, BUT I did notice that N70B1 shows -58 F (-50 C) while the OCP module showed 95 F plus fan OFF. The AC is working wonders (l usually run it @72 F) either on the highway or stop/go traffic, so I assume the difference between the two reported temperature is not influencing its behavior (yet?)
Also, noticed that the EVAP temperature @101F while the cluster temperature was 98F, and the external temperature read 99F, and the OCP 95F. Let us review them in the morning after a few more hours in the garage.
Can you check again the n70b1 icarsoft reading with engine is running and ac is ON (set to LOW) please ?
... or iCarsoft scanner may not read PID: "n70b1" properly as eluded earlier by "BMW".
[/b]
If that's the case... sucks that a lot of time was spent chasing "faulty" data. Live and learn, I guess. I recall some members mentioning certain parameters the iCarsoft showed which were inaccurate. Its what triggered my thought and ask, if someone could verify. I'm sure its not just the iCarsoft that could be prone to this.
All the more reason to buy that $30 OBD dongle for Xentry pass-thru S-Prihadi posted... can't get more "right" that it.
I had iCarsoft showing me bogus data on DPF regeneration.
After spending some time for driving cycle required for regeneration, the scanner show me filter load close to 0, but after restarting everything, the number did not change from before regeneration.
That is why I did not hesitate to spend $49 when Autel dongle come on the market.
09-05-2021, 06:52 AM
)
.
, so it is at operating temperature. I am also interested to see if I get the odd, still unexplained, compressor data I got on the W211
