S-Prihadi

Hi Guys,

DATA SHARING .........

Other engines will have this too, this is on my M276 3.0TT.
I find it a bit too loud.

Funny enough, at engine idle, inside cabin with HVAC Off to silent the interior, this valve is audible to me, as I am sensitive to "new" noise.
At the time of recording, using Xentry actuation ( engine is OFF) .....the duty cycle applied is 29.x% by default. Frequency is 13.x Hz.
During real engine running, the duty cycle can be 11.x% at idle and up to 99%, depending on throttle opening and RPM.



New one on order, will take 2 months from Germany...dang !!

I do not have a known good waveform on it. You can download Pico 6 or 7 software, it is free https://www.picoauto.com/downloads
and you can view the original Pico file I attached.

Aside from the louder than normal mechanical noise, I am curios on these :
01. Pintle hump. I have always thought fuel injector has it and a typical electromagnetic valve like this Y58/1 since it is not fighting crazy pressure would not have pintle hump.
PINTLE HUMP https://markstammersdiagnostics.com/...ction-systems/




2. Back EMF, for the voltage https://learnabout-electronics.org/a.../inductors.php
A clamping diode assisted Relay's inductor back EMF does not look like this fierce, maybe this solenoid valve has more moving mass ??




3. Power cut off to solenoid. I am wondering if a new healthy solenoid valve will have this sort of bounce ?
I would think it should be a clean line there. 2 more months we would know the answer.




The 13.05 Hz operating frequency, matches the audio of the mechanical tok-tok-tok sound.
I took 1 second of the video ( 25FPS version) and streched it in the timeline.



Shall update when new purge solenoid valve Y58/1 arrive in supposedly 2 months. The new one will be tested/compared against above of 35,000KM old ( approx 35,000/ 20KMH = 1,750 hours )
NOTE : This purge solenoid does not work 100% of the time engine is running. ECM will control it as needed.




Multimeter based measurement, only Frequency/Hz and Duty Cyle % can be read, correct voltage can't be read by DMM, it is too slow.




26 minutes of fun at the track, this session is very relaxed. 6 total laps, 2 pit stops for driver change before final rest for the hour, me and my cousin. 1 hour for car and next 1 hour for bike.
See the purge valve at work. 1 data point is 1 second.



.



Be back in 2 month.........

S-Prihadi

Dang...how come my zip file did not attached. Re-Try...oh yeah, it sticked

CaliBenzDriver

Than you Surya for probing the busy life of the EVAP solenoid. We can hear it rattle and now we can see it is a high-tech gem with duty cycle regulation.

The computer measures the tank vacuum and adjust the pulse width of the solenoid to match its target regardless of engine vacuum variations.

With a spare valve on-hand... you can experiment using dry PTFE lubrication (see pic).


👉 dry TEFLON lube (by Blaster Co.)
The gas fumes under vacuum are likely to promote quick evaporation of any liquid lube, so DRY may work best to regain quiet operations.

Hopefully the new valve won't be as loud as the original 13kHz rattlesnake 🐍

S-Prihadi

Good idea Cali, thank you.

This post is the part 2 (kinda) of the dummy sensor post : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...re-sensor.html

On my car, I bet the ECM does not know fuel vapor vacuum value. The missing B4/4 fuel vapor pressure sensor at the vent line is the reason. I got a dummy one see.
Also being a non USA model, I do not get the second B4/3 fuel vapor pressure sensor at the fuel tank itself.

S-Prihadi

Okey dokey. I almost forgot to install the new Fuel Vapor Purge Solenoid/Valve. Got it like few weeks back but the fuel filter pressure thingy was too exciting

A 2014 year production 8 years ago, WT-hell Mercedes. Czech made, not Germany.
The Czech part is okey, but this thing has some sort of composite/elastomer/seal as valve seat and 8 years old even un-used is not good !!! Shock absorber is another one I worry if year of production is too old when I bought it as new.

YELLOW label is the "new" one.








The noise comparison
I am indeed still hypersenstive to changes on my car ...YIPEEE !!!!




Electrical behaviour difference.
NOTE : This time I use Xentry passthru and Picoscope software on the same laptop. 1st time the old solenoid was tested back in Feb 2022, I was using Autel.
Because the Xentry passthru is USB connected to my laptop and so is the Pico 4425A scope, depending on the tested component, if EMF spike exceed -30V , Pico 4425A does not like it albeit it has a "floating" ground.
Using non automotive Pico 2205A/2204A which is shared ground and Xentry passthru on the same laptop, the Pico can "hang"/freeze for certain sensor/device actuation.
There is why sometime I need to use Autel which is bluetooth based and not using USB wire, that way my laptop USB ground is not connected to the car and the Pico can be less/not effected.


Resistance of the coil/s.






Anyhow, ignore the difference of the back-EMF spike today, it is 130 ish volts compared to Febuary test at 24V ish.
We focus on the amperage behaviour of the coil of the solenoid.





.




.


Image 2 and 3 shows the wave-y thingy on the amperage (red/B channel).
Back in Febuary I was wondering if new one would be like that wave-y too and now we know it is not.
I guess it is the coil starting to age or mechanically the activation of the pulling of the valve is not so smooth anymore on the old one.
Wave-y (oscillation) is always NOT GOOD.



SUMMARY :

01. How long do we think the old solenoid can last ? No idea. Where I can read the coil side of the solenoid electrically, to test real leaky unit, vacuum pump + gauge is still needed.

02. If mechanically the mechanical side of the solenoid is very bad, I guess electrically on a scope it will show.

03. By ear and touch for the solenoid sound & extra vibration if any and vacuum test is I think still the best way and cheapest too.


So, this post is complete now. Old>>>>Renewed I hate the extra noise of the old one.