2010 E350 vibrating under acceleration
#26
I drove the car again this morning. I wasn't able to trigger a misfire. However, the dang "ECM 0524 - The charge movement flap (cylinder bank 1) has a malfunction." is still present.
I also noticed that the RPM's are sort of bouncing around as they did before. Although, not as aggressively. I am sort of stumped at the moment.
Boy is this fun
#27
Let us process the current information:
1 - New manifold --> Assumption all good parts, so it has to be something else (keep this in mind, you may need to come back to question this premise)
2 - Scanner says 0524 --> how does it know? Sensor says so, or ECU cannot find the sensor and triggers an error
3 - How do we split the problem upstream/downstream of the sensor? Swap sensors left<->right and see if the error moves from left to the right.
4 - You may not want to disconnect both new sensors, so take sensors out from the old manifold, hopefully, one of them works. I cannot believe luck is not on your side with 3 bad sensors.
5 - 3 bad sensors? Perhaps a wiring issue? Connected does not mean it is communicating. Time for a Digital Voltmeter, and determine if the sensors have power/signal from the ECU. Measure voltage on the working side (reference), repeat on the not working side. Is it the same?
6 - ...
or you can do in a different order (1) still the same
2 - Disconnect the sensor, no need to swap, that is supposed to be working and check which error triggers in the Autel scanner you have.
3 - Same error as in bank 1, get the voltmeter and measure on the working side and recheck the not working side for the same voltage.
By now I think you know the drill around the intake, but here is a picture pointing out where those specific sensors are
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm
1 - New manifold --> Assumption all good parts, so it has to be something else (keep this in mind, you may need to come back to question this premise)
2 - Scanner says 0524 --> how does it know? Sensor says so, or ECU cannot find the sensor and triggers an error
3 - How do we split the problem upstream/downstream of the sensor? Swap sensors left<->right and see if the error moves from left to the right.
4 - You may not want to disconnect both new sensors, so take sensors out from the old manifold, hopefully, one of them works. I cannot believe luck is not on your side with 3 bad sensors.
5 - 3 bad sensors? Perhaps a wiring issue? Connected does not mean it is communicating. Time for a Digital Voltmeter, and determine if the sensors have power/signal from the ECU. Measure voltage on the working side (reference), repeat on the not working side. Is it the same?
6 - ...
or you can do in a different order (1) still the same
2 - Disconnect the sensor, no need to swap, that is supposed to be working and check which error triggers in the Autel scanner you have.
3 - Same error as in bank 1, get the voltmeter and measure on the working side and recheck the not working side for the same voltage.
By now I think you know the drill around the intake, but here is a picture pointing out where those specific sensors are
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm
Last edited by JCM_MB; 02-27-2023 at 08:03 PM.
#28
I had a similar vibration issue when my motor mounts died in my '13 E350. There was more engine vibration transmitted to the car at all times but hardly noticeable. When I'd lean on it a little (or a lot for normal people) it would vibrate pretty bad. It didn't always do it and the speed didn't really change the intensity, just the frequency. I guess under load the slight shift of the eng/trans was enough to cause a driveline vibe which is weird because the angle change is so slight.
It wasn't the same every time I gassed it. It would vary from I could barely tell to wtf and I let off the gas thinking the motor completely dislodged. Sometimes it would get stuck vibrating after I let off the gas, so I guess it didn't settle back right or something but I could free it up by gassing it again, slamming on the brake, or even stopping/restarting the eng. The engine was fine, no issues with the intake or anything. Not that I believe that could cause any vibration but I suppose it could upset it if the flaps were flapping. If the flap were simply in the wrong position I'm not sure you'd even notice. My intake was different than yours but when it was in the wrong position, which I forced just to see, it didn't matter much and if driving normally I don't think you'd know it.
Looking at that idle speed video I'd imagine the only intake issue that would cause that is your intake flaps flapping moving back n forth, maybe a big vacuum leak, or maybe popping in and out of Catalyst heating mode, which I've caught my current car doing a few times. Cat mode retards the spark timing, then it changes its mind and goes back to normal timing, repeat. Most noticeable when I hold rpm up ~900-1200 in neutral/park.
Fyi I used a phone app to check vibration freq and it matched the driveline, which you can calc using your tire size and diff gearing, or estimate via rpm using whatever gear is 1-1 for you. I forget the app name but I think it was made for driveline vibes. Once loaded I just held the phone firmly against the center console and it reads it. At first I thought it was the rag joints but they were fine. The only thing not ok was the motor mounts, which clearly showed in the classic motor mount test of leaning on it while stopped with the hood open, brakes held and gassing it in D & R to check both sides. The motors move around normally when you do that but when mounts are broken they move a lot more. I guess you just have to see good and bad to know the difference, but once you see bad you'll know it. With your eng you may have to give it a good half throttle to get it to lift off the mount.
Best of luck!
It wasn't the same every time I gassed it. It would vary from I could barely tell to wtf and I let off the gas thinking the motor completely dislodged. Sometimes it would get stuck vibrating after I let off the gas, so I guess it didn't settle back right or something but I could free it up by gassing it again, slamming on the brake, or even stopping/restarting the eng. The engine was fine, no issues with the intake or anything. Not that I believe that could cause any vibration but I suppose it could upset it if the flaps were flapping. If the flap were simply in the wrong position I'm not sure you'd even notice. My intake was different than yours but when it was in the wrong position, which I forced just to see, it didn't matter much and if driving normally I don't think you'd know it.
Looking at that idle speed video I'd imagine the only intake issue that would cause that is your intake flaps flapping moving back n forth, maybe a big vacuum leak, or maybe popping in and out of Catalyst heating mode, which I've caught my current car doing a few times. Cat mode retards the spark timing, then it changes its mind and goes back to normal timing, repeat. Most noticeable when I hold rpm up ~900-1200 in neutral/park.
Fyi I used a phone app to check vibration freq and it matched the driveline, which you can calc using your tire size and diff gearing, or estimate via rpm using whatever gear is 1-1 for you. I forget the app name but I think it was made for driveline vibes. Once loaded I just held the phone firmly against the center console and it reads it. At first I thought it was the rag joints but they were fine. The only thing not ok was the motor mounts, which clearly showed in the classic motor mount test of leaning on it while stopped with the hood open, brakes held and gassing it in D & R to check both sides. The motors move around normally when you do that but when mounts are broken they move a lot more. I guess you just have to see good and bad to know the difference, but once you see bad you'll know it. With your eng you may have to give it a good half throttle to get it to lift off the mount.
Best of luck!
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,155
Likes: 1,507
From: MA
2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
It's not a Pierburg, which was OEM, it's an aftermarket one that no one else has mentioned using before that I recall. Still I hesitate to point to that as it's hard to believe that it's bad brand new. However there are issues like this where only MB sensors on magnetic rings, engine sensors, etc work fine and aftermarket ones do not. The other thing is that sometimes it takes a while for it to set a code and then sometime it takes a while for the system to clear a code so maybe it'll go away later after a few more drive cycles. When I changed mine, it had a pending code, not an actual code and after replacement it just went away. That was OEM Pierburg. Maybe just verify that the lever moves easily and freely. My old one was stiff and didn't bounce back after moving it. New one was very smooth.
#30
Thank you both for the input yall. I appreciate the guidance.
If there was some sort of short, wouldn't it appear as a short or open circuit? For example, I ripped off my thermostat housing sensor and it states there is a fault or open circuit. In my case, it's explicitly squawking about the charge movement flap. The original manifold clearly was broken. However, this new aftermarket one triggers the same error code even after manually clearing the codes. For a moment, I also thought it might take a while before the code clears. Or what are the chances of a bad manifold. TRQ is not Pierburg, but if 1AAuto uses it, I can't imagine it being a bad part. I will reach out to them tomorrow to see if they use it on their cars instead of the Pierbug part. However, why would it be after I had disconnected the battery/pcm/ and cleared the codes multiple times? Plus, most of the symptoms remain. Although, they are less noticeable. My wife can't tell the difference, but I can
I don't want to throw parts at it but now I am thinking about ordering new ignition coils. As recommended, I will try to shoot with some of the old sensors and unplug them to see if it triggers a different code.
If there was some sort of short, wouldn't it appear as a short or open circuit? For example, I ripped off my thermostat housing sensor and it states there is a fault or open circuit. In my case, it's explicitly squawking about the charge movement flap. The original manifold clearly was broken. However, this new aftermarket one triggers the same error code even after manually clearing the codes. For a moment, I also thought it might take a while before the code clears. Or what are the chances of a bad manifold. TRQ is not Pierburg, but if 1AAuto uses it, I can't imagine it being a bad part. I will reach out to them tomorrow to see if they use it on their cars instead of the Pierbug part. However, why would it be after I had disconnected the battery/pcm/ and cleared the codes multiple times? Plus, most of the symptoms remain. Although, they are less noticeable. My wife can't tell the difference, but I can
I don't want to throw parts at it but now I am thinking about ordering new ignition coils. As recommended, I will try to shoot with some of the old sensors and unplug them to see if it triggers a different code.
#32
Update:
After changing the transmission fluid, not including the TC, the issue has been resolved. I couldn't find a drain plug on the TC. Otherwise, I would have drained it. I will post a video later of how my fluid looked. Using my autel I reset the TCM and the torque shutter/vibration are gone. What a journey!
I can't thank you all enough. Especially those who dumped tons of info I never imagined. I hope this can help someone in the future.
After changing the transmission fluid, not including the TC, the issue has been resolved. I couldn't find a drain plug on the TC. Otherwise, I would have drained it. I will post a video later of how my fluid looked. Using my autel I reset the TCM and the torque shutter/vibration are gone. What a journey!
I can't thank you all enough. Especially those who dumped tons of info I never imagined. I hope this can help someone in the future.
#33
Hello all, I’ve researched the problem and I continue to come across slightly different scenarios which is why I am posting this with plenty of gratitude upfront.
For the past couple of weeks, my 2010 E350 with about 110K miles has been doing a few things it has never done before:
-Vibrations under acceleration only. At times it feels as if the car next to me is playing loud bass-thumping music; while under acceleration. Sometimes it occurs continuously, other times it is at 5 –10 second intervals.
-The rpm gauge needle is constantly jumping/fluctuating 2-300 rpm
I’ve owned the car for about 3 months. The only concerning code I picked up with my autel mk808 was the intake manifold flap movement. Which is still active.
I went from having this one engine code regarding the Intake manifold flap to having multiple codes after experiencing the symptoms. Also, I still have not changed the transmission fluid which was last changed according to the service records at 40K —Edit: I changed the spark plugs yesterday; ngk
Pre issue codes:
Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Post issue codes:
(Same)Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Ecm 0565 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1 (cylinder bank 1) has an electrical fault or open circuit – Stored
Ecm 0569 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1(cylinder bank 2) has an electrical fault or an open circuit – Stored
Ecm 2311 the rich/lean switchover of oxygen sensor 2 (cylinder bank 2) is too slow - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103812 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. There is a short circuit to positive - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103888 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. Bus OFF - Stored
--
Any ideas or pointers would be highly appreciated.
Cheers
Rob
For the past couple of weeks, my 2010 E350 with about 110K miles has been doing a few things it has never done before:
-Vibrations under acceleration only. At times it feels as if the car next to me is playing loud bass-thumping music; while under acceleration. Sometimes it occurs continuously, other times it is at 5 –10 second intervals.
-The rpm gauge needle is constantly jumping/fluctuating 2-300 rpm
I’ve owned the car for about 3 months. The only concerning code I picked up with my autel mk808 was the intake manifold flap movement. Which is still active.
I went from having this one engine code regarding the Intake manifold flap to having multiple codes after experiencing the symptoms. Also, I still have not changed the transmission fluid which was last changed according to the service records at 40K —Edit: I changed the spark plugs yesterday; ngk
Pre issue codes:
Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Post issue codes:
(Same)Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Ecm 0565 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1 (cylinder bank 1) has an electrical fault or open circuit – Stored
Ecm 0569 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1(cylinder bank 2) has an electrical fault or an open circuit – Stored
Ecm 2311 the rich/lean switchover of oxygen sensor 2 (cylinder bank 2) is too slow - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103812 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. There is a short circuit to positive - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103888 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. Bus OFF - Stored
--
Any ideas or pointers would be highly appreciated.
Cheers
Rob
the type of fuel also have a big impact .. I usually use gas from Sam’s club only to find out it is not toptier gas and has no detergents and now go to costco , my Benz runs noticeably better
Top tier gas … https://www.toptiergas.com/
Mercedes is a OEM participant sponsor in top tier fuel
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,155
Likes: 1,507
From: MA
2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
the type of fuel also have a big impact .. I usually use gas from Sam’s club only to find out it is not top tier gas and has no detergents and now go to costco , my Benz runs noticeably better
Top tier gas … https://www.toptiergas.com/
Mercedes is a OEM participant sponsor in top tier fuel
Top tier gas … https://www.toptiergas.com/
Mercedes is a OEM participant sponsor in top tier fuel
#35
Update:
After changing the transmission fluid, not including the TC, the issue has been resolved. I couldn't find a drain plug on the TC. Otherwise, I would have drained it. I will post a video later of how my fluid looked. Using my autel I reset the TCM and the torque shutter/vibration are gone. What a journey!
I can't thank you all enough. Especially those who dumped tons of info I never imagined. I hope this can help someone in the future.
After changing the transmission fluid, not including the TC, the issue has been resolved. I couldn't find a drain plug on the TC. Otherwise, I would have drained it. I will post a video later of how my fluid looked. Using my autel I reset the TCM and the torque shutter/vibration are gone. What a journey!
I can't thank you all enough. Especially those who dumped tons of info I never imagined. I hope this can help someone in the future.
#36
Gas
Hello all, I’ve researched the problem and I continue to come across slightly different scenarios which is why I am posting this with plenty of gratitude upfront.
For the past couple of weeks, my 2010 E350 with about 110K miles has been doing a few things it has never done before:
-Vibrations under acceleration only. At times it feels as if the car next to me is playing loud bass-thumping music; while under acceleration. Sometimes it occurs continuously, other times it is at 5 –10 second intervals.
-The rpm gauge needle is constantly jumping/fluctuating 2-300 rpm
I’ve owned the car for about 3 months. The only concerning code I picked up with my autel mk808 was the intake manifold flap movement. Which is still active.
I went from having this one engine code regarding the Intake manifold flap to having multiple codes after experiencing the symptoms. Also, I still have not changed the transmission fluid which was last changed according to the service records at 40K —Edit: I changed the spark plugs yesterday; ngk
Pre issue codes:
Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Post issue codes:
(Same)Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Ecm 0565 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1 (cylinder bank 1) has an electrical fault or open circuit – Stored
Ecm 0569 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1(cylinder bank 2) has an electrical fault or an open circuit – Stored
Ecm 2311 the rich/lean switchover of oxygen sensor 2 (cylinder bank 2) is too slow - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103812 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. There is a short circuit to positive - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103888 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. Bus OFF - Stored
--
Any ideas or pointers would be highly appreciated.
Cheers
Rob
For the past couple of weeks, my 2010 E350 with about 110K miles has been doing a few things it has never done before:
-Vibrations under acceleration only. At times it feels as if the car next to me is playing loud bass-thumping music; while under acceleration. Sometimes it occurs continuously, other times it is at 5 –10 second intervals.
-The rpm gauge needle is constantly jumping/fluctuating 2-300 rpm
I’ve owned the car for about 3 months. The only concerning code I picked up with my autel mk808 was the intake manifold flap movement. Which is still active.
I went from having this one engine code regarding the Intake manifold flap to having multiple codes after experiencing the symptoms. Also, I still have not changed the transmission fluid which was last changed according to the service records at 40K —Edit: I changed the spark plugs yesterday; ngk
Pre issue codes:
Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Post issue codes:
(Same)Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored
Ecm 0565 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1 (cylinder bank 1) has an electrical fault or open circuit – Stored
Ecm 0569 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1(cylinder bank 2) has an electrical fault or an open circuit – Stored
Ecm 2311 the rich/lean switchover of oxygen sensor 2 (cylinder bank 2) is too slow - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103812 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. There is a short circuit to positive - Stored
CGW( central gateway control unit) U103888 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. Bus OFF - Stored
--
Any ideas or pointers would be highly appreciated.
Cheers
Rob