tobe1424

Hello all, I’ve researched the problem and I continue to come across slightly different scenarios which is why I am posting this with plenty of gratitude upfront.

For the past couple of weeks, my 2010 E350 with about 110K miles has been doing a few things it has never done before:

-Vibrations under acceleration only. At times it feels as if the car next to me is playing loud bass-thumping music; while under acceleration. Sometimes it occurs continuously, other times it is at 5 –10 second intervals.

-The rpm gauge needle is constantly jumping/fluctuating 2-300 rpm


I’ve owned the car for about 3 months. The only concerning code I picked up with my autel mk808 was the intake manifold flap movement. Which is still active.

I went from having this one engine code regarding the Intake manifold flap to having multiple codes after experiencing the symptoms. Also, I still have not changed the transmission fluid which was last changed according to the service records at 40K —Edit: I changed the spark plugs yesterday; ngk



Pre issue codes:

Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored



Post issue codes:

(Same)Ecm 0521 the charge movement flap cylinder bank 1 has a malfunction - Active and stored

Ecm 0565 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1 (cylinder bank 1) has an electrical fault or open circuit – Stored

Ecm 0569 the pump current connection of oxygen sensor 1(cylinder bank 2) has an electrical fault or an open circuit – Stored

Ecm 2311 the rich/lean switchover of oxygen sensor 2 (cylinder bank 2) is too slow - Stored

CGW( central gateway control unit) U103812 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. There is a short circuit to positive - Stored

CGW( central gateway control unit) U103888 – communication with the diagnostic CAN bus has a malfunction. Bus OFF - Stored

--

Any ideas or pointers would be highly appreciated.

Cheers

Rob

CaliBenzDriver

Rob, this set of faults is a sort of new owner welcome from your car!

Good job collecting/analysing the evidences to understand what's going on with your engine. All should be well soon under your watch.

Let's concentrate on misfiring priorities including opportunistic maintenance to prevent busy-work later:

1-- Intake + Plugs + PCV
As you point out the intake plenum needs to come out to deal with plastic flaps.
Take advantage of removing the plenum to replace your spark plugs + boots + PCV + camshaft plugs at the engine rear.
Through in an engine air filter for good measure.


At that point I would evaluate the car for couple days if problem is fixed. I recommend evaluation between work phases so you don't bundle unrelated items and decrease chances of a mess.


2-- Tired Lambda/O2:
Your stored codes for both upstream O2 codes are directly related to the poor mixture. In that sens they could be ignored.
However at that mileage, you are guaranteed the original sensors are spent but not dead. They are slow because the sensing area is partially spoiled with exhaust deposits. Replace both upstream only, leave the downstream alone. Hopefully you don't find too much engine oil on the connectors...


3-- Timing Chain maintenance items :
The next important item for a smooth engine with powerful mixtures is the weak Tensioners.

MB is using non-racheting tensioners that require early replacement. When the tensioners are weak the camshafts get out of time and the computer has a hard time to correlate crankshaft and camshafts positions. The ECM can alter the camshaft positions based on calculations but not random chain slack caused by poor tensioners.
The opportunistic maintenance item here is going to be the camshafts POSITION SENSORS. They are responsible for feeding oil into the ECM through the $10k harness. MB keeps superseeding parts that keep leaking just the right amount... great!

It's up to you if you decide to replace the 4x VVT SOLENOIDS. You can inspect for oil leak and save that small job for later if you want.


4-- MISC:
These CGW stored faults can be 99% ignored for now. They are caused by the gateway not being able to reach other modules when its too busy with faulty transfers....
I used to get these before reworking the poor module connections over CAN-B.

Here I am going to recommend your learn to reboot your car once or twice a month. It's done with battery disconnect (ok to ignore AUX batt. if you have one). Rebooting restores normal operations of the SAM controllers that work closely with the ECM.
A studering SAM does practically impact ECM timings.

tobe1424

Thanks a bunch for the rundown! I hope that’s as much as a welcome as I get from her 😅 I forgot to mention I just change the plugs last night; no success. The plugs looked fouled. I was hoping that might’ve been the issue.

Aside from the pcv, are you suggesting the manifold flap - common - issue might be my problem? I’ve inherited plenty of cars with pcv issues. I will change the pcv. However, I don’t think it’s the issue.

i’ve found a few articles with similar symptoms and description of my problem. One of them claimed to be resolved by changing the transmission fluid. As if the problem was related to the transmission.However that doesn’t resonate with is my prior troubleshooting experience. Yet, it’s my first Mercedes so I’m not very familiar with their temperaments

I am going to try some of the easy things you recommended and report back.

CaliBenzDriver

Yes, the PCV and plugs are *not* your acceleration issue.

Your broken intake flaps are causing a difference in air flow the ECM is picking up.

In that department you can clean you Airflow sensor while you are back there.


I was advocating to bundle common items so you don't need to keep removing the plenum as indicated by the WIS procedure for plugs, PCV plastic lines, ...

When you know what maintenance needs to be performed, you realize that doing things once saves time/efforts.

These cars are built to be serviced easily. How you go about getting this done can be a huge business for the transportation industry.

++++
Maintenance vs. repairs: the choice is ours.
When effective maintenance is ignored, issues gradually mature into urgent repairs.

juanmor40

Rob, the 2010 E350 has the latest incarnation of the M272 engine which except for the intake manifold plastic flaps is as close to bullet proof you will get from MB these days. Everything else like thermostat, belt pulleys, PCV breather, etc are maintenance items for this mileage.

You already have the code for the intake; however, I have usually seen 3 varieties:
- malfunction flap in the open position
- malfunction flap in the closed position
- the one you got which does not say anything about the current position
The first two are because the plastic lever/cam/actuator that actuates the flaps breaks because the flaps are oiled up and are basically stuck. If the actuator is not broken, the issue may be one of the 3 actuators in the front of the intake.
If the lever is broken, and the flaps are in the open, close or intermediate position the engine behaves like its timing is off, and it is not smooth under quick/heavy acceleration. It feels kind of funny, but it runs fine otherwise. You can get a good flashlight and try to view if the level is broken. If it broke near the pivot, you can manually move the flaps to the open, or closed position. However, if it broke on either end, the flaps will be out of sync and that will have one bank in the open/close and the other w/o control , and likely even funnier feeling accelerating (I have only driven with the center one broken, and manually set)


If the lever is not broken, then it could be one of the switch over diaphrams (22/6 22/9 in the diagram above) at the front or a sensor malfunction (it happens) at the back

tobe1424

Thank you both a bunch for the insane amount of knowledge sharing!

Other things I recently changed myself were the pully belt and oil cooler seal.

I can easily move the lever you circled in the diagram when the engine is off. I set it back to the position I originally found it in.

Since you mentioned timing maintenance, I also noticed a little bit of engine noise which isn’t my favorite. I notice that after a while or under load it goes away. Maybe it's between my ears. See link below:




When I bought the car, it had manifold codes, but it has not impacted the way the car drives. Based on your guys' timing explanation do you think replacing the manifold may fix the odd vibrations?

I cannot say it’s a misfire, but I also cannot say its suspension related. It sounds like a mechanical and/or ecm provoked issue. I wish there was a way to record the issue.

Any suggestions on how to save a few dollars sourcing a manifold? Any DIY repair routes?

Cheers

Rob

juanmor40

Pierburg is the OEM. This is a 4hr job, you do not want to repeat it because of an inexpensive part .

http://Mercedes-Benz Engine Intake M...a.co/d/dMsZXd0

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...ld_Removal.htm

separately, have you checked your engine mounts and transmission one? When damaged transfer vibrations to the rest of the vehicle.

tobe1424

Thanks for the link to the video. Mounts seems ok. I've visually inspected all bushing/mounts around the car. Mounts wouldn't explain bouncing rpm. Under heavy load and idle the car is smooth. It's the in-between normal driving. I've never experienced an issue like this where the car feels like there is loud bass music playing from the car next to me.

CaliBenzDriver

I listened to your video... you got quite a musician going. Besides your idle is remarkably nicely stable.


YTube reviewers commented about oil viscosity in old lifters...Nop! I think the M272/6/8 engines all use quad OHC rollers, not lifters. Perhaps the M272 is different that way...

I think your idle tictoc would be sloppy chain caused by wasted passenger side tensioner plus guide inspection. Ignoring that exposes you to loose chain jump and low lubrication of camshafts journals.
While unrepaired stay away from the redline

Enough bad news in your collection... the good news is these parts are dirt cheap compared to downtown shop. You can get this car back in top shape for cheap.

As for your intake plenum:
Replace the actuators all at once after you cleanup the intake. Did you say if PCV was replaced already? This amazing design with plastic and rubber is really good at sending oil into the plenum that wants to jam its flaps.
Do you see how everything is closely related ?

​​​​​

juanmor40

did you check the driveshaft ?

here is for the previous chassis, but worth understanding the process

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm

cetialpha5

The PVC mentioned earlier is basically the oil separator and breather cover as mentioned in this kit. You really should replace those two parts to prevent the intake from going again, the other parts may or may not be needed. Like I don't think you need the oil separator for the left side, just the right side. The hoses depends on how badly coated with oil your old ones are. The plugs if they're leaking but they eventually leak anyway so it might be worth it to replace all three now anyway. Someone else mentioned a cheap $280 aftermarket intake from TRQ but I never really heard of them. The Pierburg is oem and you will have no issues with it, probably get at least another 110k out of it. If the TRQ fails in a few years, who knows how it will fail, but it's quite the job to take everything apart and put it together again. If you say the lever moves freely, it could be one of the rods that are broken. There are repair kits on eBay that sell those bits, but it's not recommended because when the lever or rods break, that usually means the flaps are getting gummed up and if you just replace those bits, eventually the flaps break off and fall into the engine causing engine damage which is why everyone says to just replace the manifold. As for the motor mounts, they tend to collapse from the top so it's hard to see if they're slightly crushed or not vs the new ones. After enough mileage, they all eventually need to be done. The transmission mount is easy though, you should try that one and see if it matches up to the new one. If that one is slightly crushed, then the motor mounts are also probably crushed. The tensioner, pulleys and thermostat are also known failure points on this engine. There's also several other M272 intake manifold videos on youtube. Some of those guys are hacks, one guy reused his o-rings for the fuel injectors, should have new ones on hand when doing this, they're cheap. The motor mounts are tough though, there's several threads on here about how hard it is to do, mostly trying to get at the top nut on the mount and also all the stuff you need to unbolt to get at it.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...kit-oem-515810

MBNUT1

Mine makes the same noise at idle and has for years and 10k's of miles. Two hypothesis. One is the one offered by CaliBenz, the other is a form of piston slap due to scuffing of the cylinder liners. I would love to find out that CaliBenz is right and could be easily corrected.

juanmor40

If there is something loose in the timing, say tensioner or stretched chain I guess it should be noticed as an angle difference in XEntry.

I recall seeing a video explaining how to determine timing chain stretching using XEntry. I will find it again and update this post.

MBNUT1

Thanks. That sounds less painful that boroscoping the cylinders which I kind of thought would be pointless because what are you going to do if you find scoring. Thinking about it further though I would tend to place a bet on the scoring because the engine is often quiet when it is cold and the noise is more pronounced when it is warm. I think with tensioner problems they usually make a racket on start up that tends to quiet down as the engine runs. The cylinder scoring is a known issue with the early 2010-11's E350's / E550's.

juanmor40

I am not familiar yet with the chain noises on these engines (though I have heard older 4//6/8 non-MB engines and I know what you mean). Sister's 2008 W211 @169K miles is as quiet and smooth idling as my 2014 W212 @90K. Hers has the damaged manifold, and I can tell the difference in the power band since I drove it back in 2013 and it was amazing (I got a big ticket because of it). Currently, it has some weird subtle vibration in the cabin at idle (that apparently only I can feel), @cetialpha5 suggested to look to the motor mounts but sister's say the car is fine as it is, the car is likely doing 1.5K miles a year, i.e. spare car.

I wonder if the recording can be extended, and post-processed with a signal analyzer, we should be able to isolate the frequencies to differentiate cylinders injection, from chain from 1 cylinder slapping. Given the idling speed, the analysis should be conclusive barring "experimental errors"

CaliBenzDriver

Personally I really don't know about piston slapping that can go on forever without catastrophic failure. I am sure it's possible but not rampant on a smooth engines.
All gas engines use "ping sensors" to retard ignition timing advance when pistons skirts ping the cylinders walls.

I think that noise is from the head of the loose tensioner hitting the worned out chain guide on passenger bank1 and perhaps bank2 as well on the dual timing chains.

Without a racheting tensioner, the trailing camshaft has the ability to get pulled forward each turn using the chain slack.

> Data mining to solve noise :
What this means is Bank1 exhaust camshaft on all M272/6/8 (plus Bank2 intake camshafts on M276/8) is likely showing wicked CPS data that correlate with that timing freeplay.
Compare the VVT correction factors.... it's not trivial to compare the exhaust correction to the intake correction. At least if you spot numbers discrepancy you know what's going on: the ECU is trying to compensate the trailing camshafts timings for the loose tensioner freeplay.


> A gently progressive issue:
At first everything runs quietly with enough oil pressure to hold the chain slack against the trailing guide.

The economy chain tensioner without ratcheting allows the tensioner piston to travel back and forth. It is loosely guided in a oversized bore by a single rubber seal.

Around 80kMi the available oil pressure leaks through the tensioner guide seal. Piston has very little restraint left to hold it's position.

At that point the trailing slack can impact the valve timing so VVT correction is used to dial a better position with what oil pressure is available.

Chain slapping wears out chain rollers that extend overall length, that messes up valve timing more, that requires further VVT correction.

The end of that story involves the chain guides failure. The soft metal shavings and lack of oil pressure all the way to the firewall journals wears out the camshaft journals (aluminum bearing surface!) and high pressure pump if so equipped.


The workaround would be a classic ratcheting tensioner upgrade.


++++ VVT Locked:
Presumably at idle Rpm the VVT pins are locking the camshafts to the chain position, right?
Next to no freeplay in VVT means any observed timing discrepancy is from somewhere else... loose tensioners allowing trailing camshaft freeplay.
✌️

++++ FCP knows it...

FCP kit is ready for that business
shortcut: "tensioners" only 👍

A loose timing chain (or TBelt) tensioner is an excellent producer of engine vibrations often diagnosed as bad engine mounts that turn out not to fix the root cause of vibrations.

tobe1424

Thanks again for the encyclopedia of knowledge! I can't thank you enough. Silly question, if my vibrations and weird behavior are in fact related to the timing chain/components, wouldn't I have codes closely relevant to them?

I've begun shopping around for the intake manifold. However, if we were all gambling folks, would you say it's likely my manifold? I can't imagine this being the drive shaft. Although, thanks for sharing that info. Tomorrow I will disconnect the battery, clear the codes, and see what comes up in my scans after a drive. Not that I am trying to avoid changing the manifold. However, I would really like to iron out my odd issue without throwing parts at it. I've had IM problems in other cars due to bad IAC's or MAF's or vacuum leaks. Anyhow, if you were in my shoe, would the manifold be the first thing you change?

CaliBenzDriver

Rob, the short answer without splitting-hair is yes the manifold repair is first.

As far as not getting helpful DTC codes...
It's hard to stay politically correct It is really sad that big Robert Bosch, Siemens, Continental could have developed a more useful troubleshooting framework.
Right now, unfortunately code coverage is spotty. Coverage depends on the module manufacturer. Too often it's vaguely limited to basics. Pretty ridiculous compared to what it could be...

Even the A/B maintenance scope is limited to few services items excluding the more serious ones: water pump, thermostat, tensioners....

You car needs all the parts designed to be replaced at that mileage.
Either you piece meal each repairs or you consider the 100k mileage and through in pretty much all the parts selected by FCP guys for inventory turn over.

ZakiGarage

Do agree seems you need the intake manifold first with the oil separators. The oil separators on these engines are so bad letting lots of oil in and destroying manifolds. I'm already on my 3rd manifold right now.
Even after replacing the oil separators I still see lots of oil on the throttle body with every oil change. Non of my old manifolds had any physical damage on the outside like many reports.
I also get lots of unrelated fault codes like you did, but once the main issue is solved usually all the other faults don't reappear.

But the vibration at the mentioned speeds does sound like drivetrain issues, once done with the intake issues I would change the engine/trans mounts. The mounts don't have to be visibly damaged or totally collapsed to make the vibrations, just a few mm of them going down over time would get you vibrations and at your mileage they should be due. If the mounts didn't fix it I'll start looking that the driveshaft flex disc.

I could be wrong but its based on what I experienced with my car.

Good luck.

tobe1424

Thank you both for your continued support. I will find time tomorrow to purchase a manifold. Preferably from fcp.

If I was a betting man, I would put my money on the manifold rather than any drive train or mount issue. I can imagine the transmission causing such an issue but not the drive shaft; flex disc. The vibrations I am experiencing for short 1-2 seconds intervals randomly yet, under acceleration are very subtle and are just as aggressive at 2000rpm as they are at 5000rpm. It feels/sounds like when you veer into the emergency lane and you run over the rumble strips. But less way less aggressive. Drive shaft issues generally cause all sorts of weird vibrations under acceleration and typically worsen as rpm's increase.

Here is a quick clip of my rpm in the lower range. Please excuse the sun flares.

CaliBenzDriver

I don't know much about the tach needle jumping up/down also I know this is a common Benz favorite.
Voltage something??

Do some background research to see if you can link this to your loose camahaft issue or Crank sensor or painted GND poor circuit reference.

Keep learning

tobe1424

right on sir!

I’m spending any free time learning the habits of these cars. On that note, the bouncing rpms started along with the vibrations.

tobe1424

I continue to run short on time. I took a quick video of me moving the flaps around.


It was mentioned that if I can move the flaps manually; does it means that it broke near the pivot? The pivot points look fine to me from the exterior.

What do you guys think of an aftermarket manifold? Some of these aftermarket “reputable” sites like 1AAuto and some others have aftermarket IM’s for less than half the cost.

Lastly, today I disconnected the battery for about 30 min and took the car for a drive. Same difference. Although, I just noted that the issue does not occur when I accelerate in Neutral or Park. Does this throw in a curve ball to the equation?

tobe1424

I finally swapped out the intake manifold. It wasn't complicated but it was a lengthy process. With interruptions around my household, it took me an entire day. I removed the ECM and wire from negative post on battery prior to starting the job.

I purchase a manifold from 1AAuto. It's from "TRQ". I bought it from them because they honor a lifetime warranty and have a decent reputation. While removing the old manifold, I witnessed the triangular pivot broken where the center actuator should be connected.

Anyways, I believe I did a decent job except for the fact that I accidentally pulled off the wire to the thermostat housing which introduced a new code - DTC 0155. I just went for a test drive and here is what I gathered.

Events:
-Turned on the car and cleared codes: ECM 0155 (induced; not going to mention for now) - The coolant thermostat has an electrical fault or open circuit & ECM 0524 - The charge movement flap (cylinder bank 1) has a malfunction.

-Phase 2: Went for a drive. I noticed under normal driving conditions the problem seems to be resolved. Then, I went through the gears with a little more throttle and the vibrations returned. This time the RPM's do not fluctuate.

-Phase 3: More throttle than phase 2 and I triggered a misfire. 0629 - Combustion misfiring has been detected & 0641 - Combustion misfiring of cylinder 3 has been detected. I drove for a couple of minutes while the engine felt rough before I cleared all the codes again which included 0524(why is it back?)

-Phase 4: After clearing the codes in the middle of a red light, the misfire subsided and I drove the car for another 5-10 minutes with the same symptoms discovered during Phase 2. I got on the throttle a few times to provoke a misfire but I ended up with the same rough vibrations.

-Phase 5: Arrived home and looked at the ECM codes; the same ECM 0524 - The charge movement flap (cylinder bank 1) has a malfunction.
--

Do I need to check something else or clear something in my scanner for the code to vanish for good?

For the record, the vibrations still feel like like sudden bass. Not so much a wobbling drive shaft or bad mount.

Thanks in advance.

Best,

Rob

cetialpha5

Check your connections. Are you sure the gaskets were lined up when you put the new manifold on? Are you sure the injectors/o-rings went in fine? Misfires are typically plugs, coil and then fuel injectors.