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Hello everyone,
I purchased a 2016 E350 4Matic from MB of Arlington, VA, in April 2019. The vehicle was a CPO with 35,000 miles. I dropped it off at the dealership (MB of Arlington) over the weekend to get an estimate on the rear passenger tail light that is off more than on. The dealer advises that this is a known issue with no repair solution other than replacing the entire assembly. The Service Advisor contacted me regarding some additional findings. It looks like the rear subframe was rusted badly, and the dealer is offering to replace it under the extended 20-year warranty. The remaining findings included 2k to replace a torn driver-side seat cover, 2k to address leaking oil from the engine cover (which is expected in reading everyone's posts), and some additional areas. The vehicle is hardly driven and currently has 65,000 miles. I am shocked at all the quality issues I have encountered with the W212. I have had prior E classes before and have never encountered similar issues. I asked the Advisor to check with the service manager to see if the dealer could offer any repairs or help with cost share as customer goodwill. I also opened a case with MB USA per the SA's recommendation. Could folks here chime in on the repair estimates? If there are any areas, would you recommend that I let the dealer repair it vs. taking the vehicle to a trusted local mechanic?
Below is a general estimate provided:
1. Rear Tail Light Lamp Repacement (212-906-14-03-64) $958.30
2. Replacement of 1 License Plate Light - 2x(099-906-70-00)burned out - $332.97
3. Engine Leak Concern $2078.95 + Steam Clean Engine $104.31
4. Rear Suspension Concern (rusted sub frame) being replaced under (20 yr warranty), dealer advised may have to pay for brake line replacement or 'waxing of lines" out of pocket if further damage is found.
5. Replace 4MATIC model plate, "C" fell off by itself - $306.67
6. Replace broken USB Connectors in Center Console (172-820-20-00-80)- $350.40
7. Replace Spark Plugs - $848.16
8. BG Trans Flush - $915.66
9. Split (Torn) Drivers Seat Cushion Replacement (212-910-81-13-9D88) $1907.30
10. BG Diff Flush $292.32
Rear Tail Light Replacement - Passenger side LED are burned out, and turn off and on randomly 1 of 2 License Plate Bulb burned out Engine oil leak from dealer, estimate
Engine Oil Leak - Steam Clean
Rear Sub Frame Replacement 4MATIC badge replacement USB Ports in Center Console - Replacement Spark Plugs Replacement Trans Flush Drivers seat cover - replacement, split on seat bottom BG Diff Flush
Engine Oil Leak Vehicle Undercarriage Rusted Sub Frame
Omg lol take it to a trusted Indy (independent mechanic)
They are trying to recoup their lost cash on the subframe replacement lol
what a joke
get a second opinion please from an Indy and report back - nothing here is an emergency
4matic stickers on eBay for $10
Have an upholstery expert fix the seat
Indy can address the oil leak, oil leak and license bulb (not sure how a bulb is $300+)
spark plugs were $400 installed on my 2014 e63S ... and they want $900 for an e350 lol?
can you repair the usb connectors yourself - how bad do you need these? Can you just use Bluetooth
trans flush - way overpriced as well - Indy - has a trans fluid change never been done - why is it required now?
Last edited by PeterUbers; 06-05-2024 at 01:06 AM.
do not have anything with BG as i is the worlds biggest ripoff from a dealer
Service advisers and techs get kick backs from BG for selling there crap.
seems Very pricey for license plate bulb which probably costs $2.00
Same thing with plug change that is over $140 per plug to Replace.
Do that your self.
Get second opinion
but have them do the subframe under warranty and only those things covered by warranty.
tell them you will walk out of there without paying anything as you are going to an indy for a second opinion.
3rd if need be.
Imo just get the subframe warranty replacement done by the dealer...everything else get a reputable indy MB garage give you an estimate and compare costs. If you're handy and have appropriate tools you could change out the taillight with a used one from auto dismantler or Ebay and license plate bulb yourself. YouTube has a wealth of information and how to videos on replacing taillights and bulbs.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I thought rape was illegal in most places. That's Northern Virginia for you! Get a second opinion, maybe somewhere away from DC. I have found Mercedes-Benz of Hagerstown to be fair and reasonable.
Why a tranny flush? That is nowhere recommended by MB as a maintenance action. Stuffing an invoice like that is just unscrupulous. Is the diff flush for the front or rear? If rear, again, why? Let them replace the subframe (maybe), but take the rest to a reputable indy. Maybe start here: https://www.benzshops.com/near/arlington-va
Hey everyone,
I let the dealer know to just proceed with the warranty repair for the rear subframe and hold off on the chargeable items. SA just messaged and let me know there some additional findings, once they removed the sub frame. Im waiting for additional pictures, and some clarity on why the rear springs/muffler needs to be replaced.
4PM Update: I added pictures. SA stated that once the subframe was removed, the tech advised that they did not feel comfortable re-installing the exhaust due to the level of rust. Stating it may cause the sealant to fail and crack the exhaust during re-installation, which would cause exhaust fumes to enter the cabin. The dealer said they would waive labor and provide 10% off the invoice. However, MB cannot offer goodwill due to the vehicle's original delivery date being June 2015. I let the dealer know this was the first time I had experienced this level of rust with a Mercedes, especially with a CPO. SA stated they could do nothing additional and I should contact MBUSA to follow up with the Executive Escalations Manager. I feel like if the dealer is doing warranty repair work and finds a component that needs replacement part of the repair that "jeopardizes" safety, they should include part of the bill to Mercedes or cover through the dealer. The same goes with the rear coils; SA stated they are rusted, should be replaced, and will waive labor.
Last edited by mbenz249; 06-05-2024 at 04:11 PM.
Reason: 4PM update -- added pictures from tech
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Concur with @juanmor40 . Those emergency repairs are absolute bullsheet. I'm surprised there's not some fat robot running around yelling, "DANGER Will Robinson!" There are plastic panels under the car that protects the brake lines from weather damage. And the coils look perfectly normal -- it's only slight surface rust from metal on metal contact. You can get yourself a can of undercoat spray for a few bucks at Advance Auto and spray the brake lines yourself. Those damned springs will NOT break in the near future or ever.
I'm surprised they didn't spray your brake rotors with water and allowed them to rust overnight and tell you you needed new brakes.
Reality is that many will sign off on all these bogus repairs - the SA is just doing his job - making caysh for the company
caveat emptor
Or more likely, getting a commission on all repairs done. Can't make a commission if you don't jack up the charges or if the customer doesn't pay.
Also that muffler is priced over list, $570 online, sale of $425 mail order. The coil spring lists for $150, $118 online. OP should ask if they will install genuine MB parts if you buy them online. Some dealers do it. Other dealers will just price match the online price.
Concur with @juanmor40 . Those emergency repairs are absolute bullsheet. I'm surprised there's not some fat robot running around yelling, "DANGER Will Robinson!" There are plastic panels under the car that protects the brake lines from weather damage. And the coils look perfectly normal -- it's only slight surface rust from metal on metal contact. You can get yourself a can of undercoat spray for a few bucks at Advance Auto and spray the brake lines yourself. Those damned springs will NOT break in the near future or ever.
I'm surprised they didn't spray your brake rotors with water and allowed them to rust overnight and tell you you needed new brakes.
Ok..ok..I'll play the part of the chunky robot...."DANGER Will Robinson...DANGER!!!" Get out now before your wallet is held hostage. Get warranty repair ONLY then run to independent reliable MB garage for truly required work. Tell SA to do warranty work only and that you'll take to get inspection and estimate from other trusted independent.
Have MB fix the subframe. Call SilverStar Motors in Vienna out by Tysons and take the car there for the rest. Trust me on this. You will be very happy you did. I went 7 years of battle with DC MB dealerships, none worth the time or hassle and guaranteed to not be done right the first time. In fact, it's the dealerships themselves that drove me to a Ford as a replacement of my 212 in general. Never again will I own a MB that requires dealership interaction. In fact when we bought our 2020 GLS brand new, I declined the extended warranty simply because I would rather pay $2k to have it done right the first time, than $0 for a half a dozen failed attempts. My wife loved the GLS, so I had no choice. Even offered her a Range Rover, but was stuck on the GLS. Happy wife, happy life.
Want an example? Search in this section of the forum for user "NC211" and the thread "Seat Pain" and scroll to around the middle to the end of the thread of what it takes to replace a seat cover. It is literally two screws behind the seat glove box and it lifts right out (and disconnect the seat harness underneath, easy). The cover comes off with clips throughout the bottom, you'll see them. It. Is. Not. Hard. Certainly not $2,000 worth at all.
One of the guys will post a site were you can buy MB parts directly online. I can't recall what it is at the moment.
But start with letting MB fix the subframe, tell them to put it back together with the existing parts, and take it over to Silver Star Motors in Vienna. Owner's name is Peter, a life-long MB owner personally (including the W212). You see those older nice MB's at the gas station in NoVa? They all know Peter.
I bought mine as a CPO from the Bethesda dealer in 2017. They sold me a CPO with two bent rims and two missing bolts to the transmission pan. I know this because I took it to Peter after the 5th and final waste of time with MB in trying to figure out what was humming at 70 mph. Peter put it on the rack, spun the wheels, and it was as obvious as a Pitbull standing in the cat's litter box. But MB Tysons, Bethesda, Chantilly...could never figure it out...
What this dealership is trying to do is find repairs they can charge you an insane amount for to help offset the warranty pay MB is giving for the subframe, which is a pretty hefty job. Surprised they didn't want to charge you $300 for new MB-certified windshield wiper fluid flush. Not kidding. I've seen that quoted to me before myself while have a recall done on the GLS over something completely unrelated.
Wow, 65,000 miles and the muffler can corrode like that , along with the clamp ?
.
Can bad fuel do that ?
Mine is only 40,000KM and already 10 years old.......... its very very OK. During my ownership 2018 to now, I have removed this middle muffler 4 times.
Twice for twice of engine mounts replacement. Once for middle bearing's rubber boot of propeller shaft. And last one for my bushing work on subframe, the Dec of 2023.
July 2023
Agree with Jetta, your spring is still okey.
Clean up and apply grease, it shall be OK.
Mine. Dec 2023
Tropical country, Rust is from rain only. No salt.
There is no way a spring does not rust a tiny bit for its lower part.
Because it is steel vs steel. The shim or the seat for the spring is also steel and the spring''s paint will get hurt a bit. Also the spring cavity at spring arm holds water.... a bit.
Below
.
Spring top part wont rust, because it sit on a rubber pad and gravity does not help keep water on top part.
The plastic cup holds the rubber pad.
Have MB fix the subframe. Call SilverStar Motors in Vienna out by Tysons and take the car there for the rest. Trust me on this. You will be very happy you did. I went 7 years of battle with DC MB dealerships, none worth the time or hassle and guaranteed to not be done right the first time. In fact, it's the dealerships themselves that drove me to a Ford as a replacement of my 212 in general. Never again will I own a MB that requires dealership interaction. In fact when we bought our 2020 GLS brand new, I declined the extended warranty simply because I would rather pay $2k to have it done right the first time, than $0 for a half a dozen failed attempts. My wife loved the GLS, so I had no choice. Even offered her a Range Rover, but was stuck on the GLS. Happy wife, happy life.
Want an example? Search in this section of the forum for user "NC211" and the thread "Seat Pain" and scroll to around the middle to the end of the thread of what it takes to replace a seat cover. It is literally two screws behind the seat glove box and it lifts right out (and disconnect the seat harness underneath, easy). The cover comes off with clips throughout the bottom, you'll see them. It. Is. Not. Hard. Certainly not $2,000 worth at all.
One of the guys will post a site were you can buy MB parts directly online. I can't recall what it is at the moment.
But start with letting MB fix the subframe, tell them to put it back together with the existing parts, and take it over to Silver Star Motors in Vienna. Owner's name is Peter, a life-long MB owner personally (including the W212). You see those older nice MB's at the gas station in NoVa? They all know Peter.
I bought mine as a CPO from the Bethesda dealer in 2017. They sold me a CPO with two bent rims and two missing bolts to the transmission pan. I know this because I took it to Peter after the 5th and final waste of time with MB in trying to figure out what was humming at 70 mph. Peter put it on the rack, spun the wheels, and it was as obvious as a Pitbull standing in the cat's litter box. But MB Tysons, Bethesda, Chantilly...could never figure it out...
What this dealership is trying to do is find repairs they can charge you an insane amount for to help offset the warranty pay MB is giving for the subframe, which is a pretty hefty job. Surprised they didn't want to charge you $300 for new MB-certified windshield wiper fluid flush. Not kidding. I've seen that quoted to me before myself while have a recall done on the GLS over something completely unrelated.
Your dealer experience definitely rings a loud bel.
Out here in the wild wild West I've experienced the same from Toyota, Acura and Mercedes dealers.
Dealer shops work normally when factory warranty is involved after that the circus is managed into a ridiculous chaos.
That opens opportunities to built relationships with honest independant shops.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I will repeat that Mercedes-Benz of Hagerstown is the anomaly of Benz dealer in the DC area. They really are decent to work with. They even let me provide my own parts when I get a transmission service and charge only for labor.
Wow, $332 to replace two bulbs? Almost 1k to replace a tail light that you can buy off EBay for $255? $300 to replace a badge?? The 'BITURBO' letters keep coming off when I wash my car (just going to remove the script at this point), wonder if they'd offer to do it for $1000 since it's more letters and on both sides?
That's awful. MB sells this notion of exclusivity and poshness, then their dealership network tries to f**k you at every turn. It's a shame Lexus never figured out how to build great sports sedans. It's one thing to rip off Ferrari owners who drive their fancy toys twice a month and have a stable of six cars to enjoy. Quoting an over $8k repair bill on a nearly decade old 350 (especially on minor or made up stuff) is criminal.
do not have anything with BG as i is the worlds biggest ripoff from a dealer
Service advisers and techs get kick backs from BG for selling there crap.
seems Very pricey for license plate bulb which probably costs $2.00
Same thing with plug change that is over $140 per plug to Replace.
Do that your self.
Get second opinion
but have them do the subframe under warranty and only those things covered by warranty.
tell them you will walk out of there without paying anything as you are going to an indy for a second opinion.
3rd if need be.
the license plate is a LED assembly thats $25 or so at a discount parts dealer. this quote says $75 for the two bulbs, and $220 labor to install them, thats probably an hour or so at some outrageous hourly. I dunno how time consuming replacing those is.
W212 M276 DELA 30 ; W211 OM642 ; R107 M117, Sierra 1500 LZ0
Haven't had time to read the full thread yet, but for anything non-warrantied in Alexandria, take it to https://www.foreigncarservicealexandria.com/ right by the river in north Old Town. My family owns a Euro car shop elsewhere where I get all my work done now, but when I lived in ALX, my father agreed that they were the most competent. Fritz used to own the place, but he has since retired. Back when Bosch used to certify shops in one area, they were the one certified (my father's was in my town too). My 75 year old mother still takes her 1990 420 SEL and 2016 E350 there religiously. It's the only place I've ever been that reminded me of my father's shop.
W212 M276 DELA 30 ; W211 OM642 ; R107 M117, Sierra 1500 LZ0
Hey @PeterUbers - Haven't seen you on here in a long time, I'm guessing you're on the AMG forum. What sort of numbers are you running in terms of HP/TQ with all those mods? Any reliability issues like you had the M278 E550? I thought they're mostly the same engine so the same concerns exist (cylinder scoring, cooling plumbing).
06-04-2024, 10:55 PM
