S-Prihadi

For W212 the EPC does not show such good details like W124. I took a peek at W124 EPC and as you said, it has related information in 1 sub-page, nice

S-Prihadi

Sometimes I hate the way MB marketing vs Engineering , give code to options or the way they explain things. I like the Engineering data, because it is more accurate.

This is from W212 2009 Introduction Booklet. I am also attaching the complete PDF link,
here : https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...w212-sedan.pdf

Too bad there is no similar booklet for facelift models.




The way the marketing people describe DIRECT CONTROL, suspension with selective damping is as though as we can control it electronically..... until,.....
Until we read further..... its just the damper valving first 10mm movement.






Now, where the hell is 486 Sports mentioned ? Other than in data card ??
Why is my 677 called Standard Suspension in Data Card but a Sport Suspension in W212 Intro Booklet ??




.




At least we know that 677 is told to have 15mm lower ground clearance, perhaps this is front and back equally ?
However another different spring length can not tell the actual ground clearance to be, unless we know the weight of the car and the Kg per millimeter the spring rate is.

S-Prihadi

Just for information sake.

The tool name is Romess.
Let use the Romess angle, or the suspension arm angle to see which car sit highest.
Imagine seeing the car from the rear to the front.
Zero angle of the arm is when the right side suspension arm is at 3 o'clock.
A taller ground clearance car, will have Romess angle more than zero degree as the suspension arm end points down more and not flat.

Below is German decimal system, so One Point Six is written at 1,6 , not 1.6. One Thousand US$ is written as US$1.000,00 and not US$1,000.00




===========





482 being the highest ground clearance shows highest romess degree.
485 comfort is second highest ground clearance
486/677 Sport being the lowest ground clearance.

Sorry, I can't calculate Romess angle to get ground clearance height. I do not know the exact geometry of the suspension.

If you see the document ROMESS, it seems 486 and 677 is the same from the engineering perspective, but maybe in marketing speak they made it seems
different ?

MBNUT1

Ah the old nonlinear effects resulting in a steady state shift. Totally fascinating post!

Back in the 60's my Dad used to say that Mercedes had soft springs and hard dampers. I kind of think that they have moved somewhat away from that. True or not?

For sure my W212 corners flatter than my W211 did both luxury models. My wife said that my W211 reminded her of her mothers Tennessee Walker Dolly. Rode smoothly but wasn't in much of a hurry to change direction.

MBNUT1

Do you guys think that it is mandatory to replace the mounts when you replace the struts?

Jasien139

Hi S,
i checked, however i have limited mechanical knowledge so i am not understanding much about the calculators
(also im very sleepy as it is 1.11 AM)
anyhow, i checked SACHS on autodoc and indeed, it gives more information.
what do you think? should i choose SACHS springs instead of Bilstein? or it doesn't matter?

I chose A 212 321 0404 (4 X BLUE) Bilstein (Autodoc doesn't give Bilstein spring length, so i got this from you) And that is 440mm
But the more higher i can get the better right?....But!, i spend half an hour today just staring at my car. and i think the current height is good.
a few mm's more is ok, but if too much, the car will look a bit weird with too much open space above the wheels, but regardless there is only 3mm difference in the other options tho.
anyhow, if i decide to go for A 212 321 02 04 OR A 212 321 03 04 from SACHS or Bilstein brand because that is 3mm longer than the chosen one, i am hesitant, because on SACHS and Bilstein product page it says: FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION VEHICLES.
is there a difference? i attach screenshot, its the first description: Aandrijving: Handgeschakeld

Both 02 04 and 03 04 show to be Manual transmission from both SACHS and Bilstein
maybe i should just go with the combination we already made?
i am very confused
also, should front and rear spring be the same? i am checking SACHS Description on autodoc, All of them are between 319 - 330mm
that is 110mm difference!

this is the chosen one 12 04 and its 330mm (highest SACHS ON AUTODOC) that is 110mm difference from front
so i am confused , wont the back of the car be lower than the front? (maybe the rear springs sits higher than the front? maybe the engine is heavy in the front so it compensates for the higher spring? i don't know, i am not that knowledgeable in such mechanics as i have no prior experience. if you think the combi we previously made is right, then ill buy that, it looks right to me but now i am confused about the height difference of the front and rear springs.

Chosen combi:
FRONT SHOCKS A 212 323 68 00 | B4 #22-194091 | same as yours | Standard B4
REAR SHOCKS A 212 320 46 30 | B4 #24-194112 | same as yours | standard B4

FRONT SPRINGS A 212 321 04 04 | 4 X BLUE | BILSTEIN 37-279868 | Comfort suspension (440mm?)
REAR SPRINGS A 212 324 12 04 | 1 X RED/ 1 X WHITE | BILSTEIN 36-277155 | Comfort suspension (330mm?)
hope to hear from you soon

S-Prihadi

You must inspect the inner rubber of the top mount #80, see its condition.
The plastic housed bearing #70 usually goes bad first. My friend's W204 bearing when hand spin-ned made a tiny tiny noise, at 93,000KM.

S-Prihadi

We follow the original plan.
I was just expanding the topic for knowledge sake.

Front and rear springs are different because of the load difference and also suspension design difference.

This is my car corner weight, your car would be the similar. I mean W212 is front heavy as with most front engine car, but at 53% front is not bad actually.

Jasien139

Okay, got it.
what about SACHS springs instead of Bilstein tho? is SACHS softer than Bilstein? or considering they have the exact part number, they should have no difference right?
so just the original plan with Bilstein springs? also what brand springs do you have?
sorry for this stupid question tho,

S-Prihadi

My springs very likely is SACHS, because it is still original. I only replaced the damper.
You can go for SACHS too, no problem. Its your call.
I doubt SACHS will be softer than Bisltein, if the steel uses is the same and dimension the same in all ways.

Jasien139

okay, i think ill just go Bilstein as that is the plan we made.

also, sorry for going off topic, how do i get access to all the resources you have? for example decoding the chassis, having a parts catalogue etc..i assume you have access to Xentry aswell? could you guide me on how to get all of this?
i saw this on ebay tho , but right now my whole budget is on my suspension and the subframe so i may not buy this right now.
i am asking this also because my COMAND head unit wont turn on, the power button just blinks slowly at night. dealer wont touch an second hand one from ebay and new is too expensive. do you have any idea on what i can do?
it would be nice to have this, as i can diagnose all the things myself. but it is offline, as i dont have MB account so i dont think i can do advanced coding like COMAND head unit, as i may need to go online right?

S-Prihadi

Go to www.benzninja.com I have his system, the best there is for Xentry and his lifetime support.
He is in this forum too https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...a-s-n-1-a.html

If you want only EPC/WIS, you buy knock-off one in Ebay.
Me I like using PC for EPC/WIS albeit my Xentry has it too. Me like big screen, Laptop only for Xentry works and no other programs

Jasien139

thank you, i will order the parts tomorrow, will take some time to arrive. i will update how the installation goes and the results!

Bruce Hubbard

If you change it, when someone goes to buy it,
they will be looking for the original suspension setup when it left the factory
in accordance with the vehicle configuration shown in the VIN

To me, it is not something you should change

Jasien139

I am not intending to sell the car anytime soon, i really love it, thats why i am spending alot to fix everything and configure it to my liking. If i do sell it tho (which is unlikely). Ill be sure to tell it to the next owner

Bruce Hubbard

But what about the buyer after that
and the buyer after that
They will be expecting to get what is configured on the VIN

Jasien139

I don't think there will be a buyer in the first place, the country i live in (very third world), Mercedes-Benz is mostly driven by people who can import it their selves, usually when a locally driven one is for sale, people usually think that there is something wrong with the car, as there is very few mechanics that fix Benz. thats why i have to fix most stuff myself. so, selling the car to someone locally, is most likely not happening. and as mentioned earlier, i really love the car, so it staying under my ownership till i die is very probable.
and in this country, cant just change cars and opt for a comfier model, i imported this one, so i guess ill have to stick with it and change it to my liking. what the owner after me finds is the least of my worries as there probably wont be another owner

Left Coast Geek

I know you already ordered stuff, but from where I'm sitting, reading what you wrote about your roads and goals, I do believe I would have chased down the Mercedes part numbers for the springs, shocks, and pads for the "482 Suspension with higher ground clearance" option code, and 17" wheels with suitable tires (245/45-17 Load Range: XL). maybe even 16" wheels (225/55R16) but they won't fit on the larger brakes used on US models (and I don't know what brakes you have). The taller the sidewalls, the more 'cush' you have on rough roads.

I recently bought a late model Ford Expedition full sized SUV... The package that had the stuff I 'needed' and 'wanted' came with $#@$#@ stupid 22" wheels with 285/45R22 tires. I *immediately* swapped them out for 18" wheels with /65 tires because we were leaving on a 4 month tour of mexico towing a small travel trailer for 9000 miles (15000 km). The roads in Mexico definitely made me happy I had the 275/65R18 tires... I swapped these...

for these...


the ride on rough roads with these /65 tires was 10X smoother than the ride with the /45's... both those tire sizes are the exact same outer diameter so they were a perfect fit (in fact, they sell this same gen 4 Expedition with 18's in XLT trim with fewer options). The 22" wheels specify 39 PSI pressure, while the 18's specify 35 PSI.

S-Prihadi

A used car is sold as-is, so buyer will have to accept the car as-is.
Jasien can always keep those 486 sports springs and give to the next owner. As for damper, so old, they are already worn down for sure.

Jasien139

​​​​​​​
i thought about going for the 482, but i am afraid to raise the car a bit too high and then with the space in the wheel wells it wont look so good like it used to.
but as soon as I'm done fixing the car, it goes straight to the garage and will only come out on the weekends, i am not gonna use it as my daily driver anymore, i need a SUV as a daily driver, especially since last few week we had records rainfall and storms so my W212 has been sitting in the garage for almost 2 weeks now.
also, nice set of wheels you got for the Expedition

Left Coast Geek

the original 22's were the standard wheels on a '19 Expedition Limited "Stealth" in 2019... The 18's I got are from a 2023r F150 truck with an "appearance package". Same bolt pattern, same offset, same tire size as a 18" Expedition.

In general, I've found factory wheels are often much higher quality than most aftermarket wheels, at least until you get into the expensive forged stuff. Most of the junk sold at the local speed shop and wheel stores is cheap junk that will bend out of round on a curb or railroad track or whatever.

Jasien139

Quick update S-Prihadi,
this was the combi
FRONT SHOCKS A 212 323 68 00 | B4 #22-194091 | same as yours | Standard B4
REAR SHOCKS A 212 320 46 30 | B4 #24-194112 | same as yours | standard B4

FRONT SPRINGS A 212 321 04 04 | 4 X BLUE | BILSTEIN 37-279868 | Comfort suspension (440mm According to SACHS) Original is 394mm so 46mm difference
till here every thing is the same, but i am going to change rear spring
CHOSEN ONE:
REAR SPRINGS A 212 324 12 04 | 1 X RED/ 1 X WHITE | BILSTEIN 36-277155 | Comfort suspension (330mm according to SACHS) Original is 319mm so difference is 11mm
difference between front and rear on the original springs is 75mm, and with the upgraded would be 440-330= 110mm

anyhow, i was doing a last check before ordering, and saw that A 212 324 02 04 was 343mm (according to SPIDAN, SUPLEX AND SKF) on autodoc, which means bilstein must be same.}
so instead of going for the 324 12 04 i am now going for 324 02 04 like you advised way earlier.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New combi:
FRONT SHOCKS A 212 323 53 00 | B4 #22-194091 | same as yours | Standard B4
REAR SHOCKS A 212 320 06 30 | B4 #24-194112 | same as yours | standard B4

FRONT SPRINGS A 212 321 04 04 | 4 X BLUE | BILSTEIN 37-279868 | Comfort suspension (440mm According to SACHS) Original is 394mm so 46mm difference
REAR SPRINGS A 212 324 02 04 | 2 X RED | BILSTEIN 36-277209 | Standard suspension (343mm according to SPIDAN, Suplex & SKF) Original is 319mm so difference is 24
difference between front and rear after upgrading would be 97mm

S-Prihadi

OK, well noted.

S-Prihadi

So, how was the conversion ? Better ride now ?

Jasien139

I ordered the parts, but i am still waiting for them to arrive, there has been shipping delays, will update when the parts arrive