Measuring tape sag can be eliminated by turning the tape 90 degrees so the tape axis is vertical, bending moment of inertia = maximum. Then shim under the tape in 3 places. Wood tapered shims are common and cheap here in the USA.

 

I tried the 90 degrees thingy , not so easy to read the tram gauge pointy end but it is stiff that way true.
Thanks for the wooden tapered shim info, DANG they sell such thing in USA !!!!

I am woodwork stupid....

 

I double verified the H1 from left to K ( my own K ) which is longer by 4mm at 1,764mm compared to the H1 from right at 1,760mm

Here I am still on a "locked" measured set point of H1 from RIGHT at 1,760mm and I go back to H1 of LEFT. See the shortage of 4mm visually.



.



.



.





.......and now the frront aka K.





--------------


The bolt or thread size to be used for next mini tram gauge to make/find the true MB specified K is M10 size. I have M10 stud.


.



.

 

What is your H5 measurement?

What are the references from K to the front axle? You can have everything perfect from K to rear axle but if the relationship with the front axle is incorrect, the vehicle is not set up properly.

True position of K needs to be confirmed.

 

H5 is at the list next to the WIS, 1,075mm



I have not done front ones yet, not until I made the 2nd tram gauge to get the WIS official K position.
For now I am practicing on how to use my 2 DIY tram gauge and see what can be improved.
At the least my own K is at the CENTER, while not forward enough, which is good for practice.
Overall its measurement stability is very good. Its body is so rigid and the mounted pointy rod also very stable, it reads reliable.

I wonder how would a telescoping one like official brand MB uses.... be rigid at 230cm ? 7+ feet ?

Above is up to 92 to 261cm variant. https://www.wielanderschill.com/en/T...2610-mm/871001

There will be minor droop for sure when held horizontal to ground .... if the telescoping 3 square tubes get pulled out to make 230cm.
If tube to tube precision is good, still 0.1 to 0.2mm clearance is needed to allow each tube to slide out easy.
Above model weights only 1.8 kg, my 230cm weights at least 5kg for the single piece 230cm excluding Tee, due to the thickness of the 4040 profile tubing.
1.3 to 1.86KG per meter is 4040 weight , depending on how thick the variant is.

 

Wieland device has 4 sections. At max extension each section has approximately 1/3 of its length supported inside the adjacent section. Enough for stability.

What are the external dimensions of your DIY aluminum extrusions? What are the external dimensions of the largest section of the Wieland device?

 

4040 = 40mm x 40mm








The Wieland brand I do not have its dimensional spec.

But it would be similar to this I guess :

.

 

Tram gage seems a bit taller than 40mm but hard to say by how much. Height of the extrusion cross section has a large influence on stiffness. Moment of inertia is proportional to bh^3 b=width and h=height

 

Yes, I am sure they use bigger than 40mm x 40mm as they need the telescoping spaces in the hollow.
They can't sell a fix 230cm long tram gauge

 

I decided that a 6mm 6061 ALU bar is stiff enough. 32mm wide is enough.


.






Got a 50cm long. Very flat, very nice.
It will be the plate for K center as per MB WIS.



.


.



.




Need machine shop to do a slot, I can't make a precision slot.


5mm allowance left and right for my measurement error. Thus 20mm long slot with the punched center as 10mm bolt diameter.
I punched the spot where the 10mm holes need to be drilled for single hole ( one side ) and a slot at another side.

I was looking for its technical name, it is a SLOT





The MB bolt is unique, it is rather tapered, so by hand I can thread it deeper than the as aftermarket M10 bolt I am using. Both are M10 thread.




,

B is total insertion of depth thread if using tool for MB bolt.
C is total insertion of depth thread on MB bolt when I only use finger
A is the aftermarket M10 bolt total insertion depth when using fingers, it is enough thread engagment depth.






Will update in a few days.........

 

I got the final K center, which should be inline with Mercedes WIS. Using 90mm bolt.



.



.




This new K is the same as my own red marking ( my own K ) on the center bolt for its true center left to right side.



.




Good thing I gave a slot for the LEFT side bolt hole.
My guesstimate measurement was off like 1 mm, I think.





--------------


I been thinking , for a measurement of H1 and H2, where there is height difference, I am not allowed to measure a slanting tip to tip.
It wont be accurate. MB measuring tool read total rods/tube telescoping spent length, at the main tube. So I must also read distance at main tube of mine, which is the 4040 bar.

Below is what I mean by Slanting ( I hope I use the correct word ).




I must measure mid center of the sharp pointy at the main 4040 long bar. Lets call it Square, as I do not know the proper term for it
Like below ( must do some calculation ). Measured at rod height 20cm from 4040 long bar. Its the photo/visual effect the distance pointy look shorter.



==================


Measurement SLANTING. H1 of Right side

Washer as shim, as per Chassis advice. Thank you.


Measurement SLANTING. H1 of Right side. = 1,773 mm




===================



Measurement, H1 of Right side SQUARE

Fatter than its actual 16mm OD, because of the hose I use as jacket for grip.


Measurement, H1 of Right side SQUARE


Measurement, H1 of Right side SQUARE
Gross measurement is at 1,787mm as H1 , from right rear side of car to K

.

Measurement, H1 of Right side SQUARE




================================================== ==========================



So slanting surely I get longer measurement, than if I measure Square.



I am still very short from supposedly 1,785mm for H1 of Left or Right side.





I then maintained the locked length of H1 Right side to K
And use it as comparison to H1 of LEFT, which was 4mm longer when measured on 22 May 2025 a bit slanting way.
As expected the locked measurement of H1 of Right side is approx 3-4mm too short to be used on H1 of Left side.
Thus repeatability is clear, Left side H1 is longer distance to K than H1 right side.




.



.





.




----------



.
Today I can't measure H2,
Due to vertical position change of the new K, WIS certified K....LOL...... Now my adjustable height rod became too short as it has to move up more.


.



.





Need to buy 1 more 4040 bar of 35CM long , now I am using 25CM version. So extra 10cm is needed.




I am so pissed.......

How could I got 1,760mm on 22nd May 2025 for H1 from right side ? The slanting was mild as the adjustable rod was "shorter" by about 9cm.
Today's slanting is a lot of slanting at 1,773mm , but I need to use the square version of 1,769mm.
Still 1,769mm is 16mm short of WIS spec of 1,785mm.
No matter how I screw-up this measurement today, 16mm too short of WIS specified distance is way too much a distance.

Can mercedes had this measurement based on that tranny support frame of pre-facelift or typo happened or is using the Long wheel base W212, China market ? Their W212 is supposedly 14cm longer.
https://paultan.org/2013/04/20/w212-...-rear-legroom/



.

----------------------

I measured between bolts center to bolt center of all 3 bolts and also the red silicone plug MB uses to cover un-used holes, 4 matic cars uses 4 bolts tranny support plate/bar.
They are all approx 43mm apart



.







.

 

Great progress @S-Prihadi !

Slanted measurement = sloped measurement = angled measurement

Square measurement = level measurement

Bear in mind everything has a tolerance. WIS gives numbers, but no tolerance. Real world manufacturing = tolerances. Approximately +/- 3mm or +/- 5mm is reasonable.

Measure the chassis height to the floor at the front axle attachment, and at the rear axle attachment (H1 point in the rear). Measure the flatness and level of the floor. The question you should answer is - is your chassis level vs the floor and is the floor level? If the quick jacks are twisting the chassis, you will have different H1 and H2 measurements.

I would prioritize left H1 = right H1. To me the absolute value of any of these measurements is not important. It is important to have symmetry left-to-right.

If your rear axle is symmetric, but too far forward or too far rearward by 3-5mm, why is this important? Symmetry is important.

You can use a string to measure H1 and H2:
The string needs to be very tight. Then you can transfer the string to your measuring tape.

 

Well H2 rear right, its bolt is not centered. like rear left.




Agree, a proper measurement must be made on alignment rack where my 4 wheels support 100% of the car weight.
Minor twisting while on quick jack I am sure happens.

My right front plastic fender/wheel liner will make a cracking sound everytime I lift up the car with quick jack.
That meant it changed "shape" a bit.

Symmetry, yes yes...most important. Thank you.

Using string for H1 and H2 is tough as it has to cross over a few rear suspension components, hence I did try using string and plump bob as 1st try hahahha.

As long as I can make a proper baseline now and re-measure after rear subframe bushings replacement, the data is good enough for my record.

I looked thru at WIS again today.
W222, is not allowed to be measured using this kind of tram gauge.
It has to use the MB approve car "measuring bed" from a few approved brands only.
Its crazy expensive computerized 3D measuring system.

One of the approved brand :



.

 

So I put my car on my wheel stand, so this mimick an alignment rack.
Deviation of car height differences from the floor via wheel stands to wheel center .....max 3mm.
The deviation is from the wheel stand fabrication.


.



.



.



.




.




The tram gauge is still locked to yesterday's measurement of H1 right side, 5th June 2025.



.







Yes ..........you are seeing the car is now "shorter" on wheel stand/ride height.... compared to hanging by Quick Jack.
Its like on its own wheel car is in compression mode and when hanging on Quick Jack it is like on expansion mode.



Next I measured the actual distance.



.







-----




.



.



.



.



.




.


I would think my measurement accuracy is within +- 1.5mm.
Anyhow, the trend is clear, on wheel stand car is shorter for H1.


============


I then use this new measurement of H1 right side ( locked ) and see if it is shorter than H1 of Left side, as it should be.



.



.



.




Yep, as expected, H1 of Left is longer than H1 of Right.


I did not measure actual H1 of Left, too lazy.

When I get the new longer Tee handle of 4040 profile and I can do H2, I will re-measure all over again H1 and H2 and the front subframe,
using wheel stand.

Must be the freakin pano-roof, if only small sunroof, my car would be more rigid.

 

Good work @S-Prihadi !

15mm difference in K1 is less than 1% of the total measurement. You are doing a good job, but the dealer uses specialized equipment as you know.

I think your measurements are good, and your car is OK, with the equipment you are using. Try measuring dimensions from K1 to the front axle to see what the overall car is doing. I think you will be OK.

Maybe the front axle dimensions in WIS are "V1" or similar. H1 = Hinterachse or rear axle. V = Vorderachse or front axle.

 

In a few days I will measure the K to the front, the V's.

 

No wonder I can not get similar values between left or right side to the K center.

I think I was blessed, the rubber plug I found belonging to my right front wheel well, made me remove my side skirt , this post :
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...t-removal.html

So I also removed the LEFT side , side skirt for cleaning.
I can then access both side of the car welding joints.




This welding joint woul be equal spacing and can be used as reference to measure and verify the "K" center MB WIS specified.
Is MB WIS K a truly centered K ?

NO IT IS NOT !!!!! The tranny tunnel is not truly centered, on purpose.






Right side measurement


.


.





---------------


Left side measurement




.




.





============

Why I said on purpose that the tranny tunnel or tranny support center is not a true car center, I suspect higly due to the differential.

My rear drive shaft both L and R are the same P/N




I measured them also, and same length.

Shape wise DIFF can not be symmetry for its left and right dimension because of the internal gear design.


See above, my DIFF is more towards the right side of the car, for its propeller shaft.
That explains the tranny tunnel is more towards the right side, or closer to the car right side.

If let say I use the propeller shaft as CENTER and simulate its rearward projection with the measuring tape, this is how it looks like :


.





If there is this little OFFSET created on purpose, MB WIS did not mention it. WIS asked us to measure the CENTER of the two bolts bore, which I did.
WTF !!!!! How can the document writer did not know that the car is on purpose has offset position for tranny tunnel ????
How does H1 and H2 and V1 and V2 ( all these using K ) , all these 4 for its left or right side is 100% of the same distance on the WIS, with approx 10-12mm center offset ??






Just for fun sake, I use a plump bob on the propeller shaft to see how much offset it is to the mid muffler.








So mid muffler and propeller shaft are not centered too.

WHY WIS DID NOT give us an offset value to compensate for this ?


..............

.

 

To prove the tunnel offset theory, H1L and V1L should have the same directional difference in length vs H1R and V1R.

 

Yes, they are pointing to offiicial MB WIS "K" has offset.

H1 of Left was not actually measured, but compared visually.
Below is H1 of Left using H1 of Right measurement length, I would say that is 4mm too short, thus H1 of Left is longer by approx 4mm as it always has been...longer.




ALL MEASUREMENT CAR ON WHEEL STAND, aka Ride Height.
.

EDITED : Sorry, corrected version is below. Me had a brain cuckoo for a while, 30 minutes ago.
MB WIS for V1 is 880 millimeters +-2mm

.





.





I tried very rough centerline measurement this morning using string. Accuracy probably +-3 mm.
It does show that the K has offset.


Rear center using bushing bolt H4 as reference.
String tied to magnetic stand to clear exhaust. Plumb bob is only there to show me where is straight down.


.
Where I stick the plumb bob string, that is the rear CENTER.



Photo has parallax error when taken at even slight angle.
But it is obvious that the propeller shaft is not at CENTER of the car.




FRONT CENTER, using radiator's resting spot and center plastic jack pad.

.



.

.


.





--------------------




.




============


Just for giggles, rear DIFF mounts are not centered on the rear subframe too, due to DIFF shape/design.
I mean the DIFF mounts Left and Right side are not equally spaced out from CENTER line.



When the new 4040 profile of 35cm and 110cm arrive, I will measure everything.
35cm version will arrive later today.

Front bolt is too deep ( high up ), thus measuring V2 will need the new 35cm 4040 profile.




I can only do V1 yesterday.
V1 of right measurement.

.
V1 of right measurement.



.
V1 of right measurement.



---------


V1 of LEFT measurement


.
V1 of LEFT measurement


.
V1 of LEFT measurement



--------------


V5 measurement need shorter main 4040 bar, because the wheel stand is in the way, thus I need 110CM version ....dugggh. Will arrive tomorrow I think.
My short version main 4040 profile bar is too long at 170cm or so.
The long main 4040 profile bar is 230cm.

.

 

The 35CM 4040 profile for Tee arrived and I measured V2-s





.



.



Or I should move REVISED K by 6mm to the LEFT of existing puched* spot ( *MB WIS K ).

But .....must really find way to measure the LEFT weld joint to RIGHT weld joint accurately.
It has those white sealant, thus thickness could be off by 1.5mm.


-----------------------------

V2 of right side measurement



V2 of right side measurement


.
V2 of right side measurement



V2 of right side measurement



V2 of right side measurement


.
V2 of right side measurement


.
V2 of right side measurement



.
V2 of right side measurement


.V2 of right side measurement




--------------------------

Using LOCKED V2 of Right side measurement, I compare visually to V2 of Left Side.

.


.


.




Dang........... this chassis measurement is an eye opener.
I thought only MB wiring has mistakes, but it seems the chassis department too.


.
ADDED : Damn, there goes 2mm accuracy out of the window, if and when the welded joint is to be used as reference to find new REVISED K Center.


.
​​​​​​​

 

@S-Prihadi

I got your PM,
I’m still in Japan, but just to follow up on your PM, most of my mb contacts are in the engine manufacturing division. I certainly am not a body and frame guy….

That being said, I know MB uses Celette frame jigs to straighten frames. It’s actually the MB approved frame jig.
https://www.bodyshopsolutionsltd.com...-equipment.pdf

They offer (or did) extensive training courses

https://scceusa.com/wp-content/uploa...mpressed-2.pdf


Celette maintains their own database of chassis measurements. If there is any doubt on the WIS specifications/misprint. It may be worth pursuing the measurements from the Celette database. I think it’s in the link below, you may be able to try it free. I haven’t tried it, as I stay as far away from body repairing as possible.

https://www.collisionrepair.ai

While they use factory specs as a guide/starting point. Chances are any error in the WIS measurements would be picked up by folks in the field and revised in their database.

I see several people on eBay sell chassis dimensions. I would ask where they are getting the specs they are selling from, WIS or Celette database? You may want to make sure you’re not chasing your tail due to a typo 🙁. It happens, I’ve caught some typo bad WIS specs in the past (torque)

hope that helps, talk soon

Good Luck

 

Mighty good idea.....
Thanks so much......

 

I will stop today, till I can get a true CENTERED K.

Last measurement made today and rear ones are re-measured except H1. All are while car on wheel stand, aka ride height.




H3 LEFT SIDE IS FRONT measurement is by visual, thus I wrote +- 1,069. I locked the H3 RIGHT SIDE IS FRONT of 1,067mm and use it visually to see if 2mm too short it will be.





.



.

H4 Right side bolt is not centered. It is more outward , or more to the right by 2mm approx.
Thus two of H3 measurement ( left and right ) has the 2mm difference. And H4 itself is 2mm "longer" than WIS.



----------------------





.



Since the bolts of V5-s and V4's are all straight , unlike rear H4, the V3-s values can be identical. Bot at 949mm.
As to why V4 is short of 4mm compared to WIS and V5 is short of 3mm, I am not so bothered....anymore.
My measurement gear and method itself could be off by 2mm and MB WIS could be whacky too, as in the so called "K"
.








END

 

@S-Prihadi good work. All of this is within the range of measurement accuracy and real world “it’s good enough”.

 

I'm no skatologist, however that does not look like mouse poo to me, too large and the wrong color.