Where are all the e43 owners?
04-05-2017, 04:31 PM
#52
MBWorld Fanatic!
When you get in to performance saloon territory it's hard to judge value as it's not worth the sum of its parts, it's worth more for the fun factor. Saying that, the e43 is a warmed over saloon not a super car hunter so the premium shouldn't be that much. A like for like specced e43 is about 11500 GBP more then my diesel in the UK. That's a near 23 percent premium. They both have 19 inch tyres, appear to have same brakes (certainly the fronts on the e43 just look like amg branded versions of my Mercedes branded amg line spec car) and whilst the e43 has air control as standard, is the suspension that much different? It would seem to me that maybe the cost difference is partly eaten up by the additional 2 cylinders and general higher expense of fitting that engine but mostly it's paying for the halo effect of having a sportier saloon.
But i very much doubt many will get sold in the UK, estate or otherwise. It's rare as hell to see an e63, it's also rare as hell to see rs6 or s8 Audi's. More common to see s4 and s6 Audi's and reasonably common to see BMW 535s which i guess e43 will compete with here. But none are what I'd call common. And Mercedes is known more for their comfort then for their sporting prowess so i think the e43 sits in a weird spot of not being wow fast, not enough certainly to shrug off views of merc being better suited for grandpa, but not cheap enough to be a volume seller (we have crippling fuel and tax costs on thirsty cars here and in most of Europe so this sort of car has to be damn good to warrant the big step up in ownership costs from a more sensible ride).
But i very much doubt many will get sold in the UK, estate or otherwise. It's rare as hell to see an e63, it's also rare as hell to see rs6 or s8 Audi's. More common to see s4 and s6 Audi's and reasonably common to see BMW 535s which i guess e43 will compete with here. But none are what I'd call common. And Mercedes is known more for their comfort then for their sporting prowess so i think the e43 sits in a weird spot of not being wow fast, not enough certainly to shrug off views of merc being better suited for grandpa, but not cheap enough to be a volume seller (we have crippling fuel and tax costs on thirsty cars here and in most of Europe so this sort of car has to be damn good to warrant the big step up in ownership costs from a more sensible ride).
04-05-2017, 04:43 PM
#53
04-05-2017, 04:46 PM
#54
That's very true. Top super saloons are crazy fast these days so it makes sense to fill the void and Audi seem to sell way more s then rs models. If merc can cash in on that then why not. And to be fair, the e43 is actually quicker than the old e55 and jaguar xjr super saloons of the 90s so it's basically just keeping that segment of the market in existence. I've got an xjr slowly rusting away on my drive and i do miss the power of it. It'd be lovely to have that in the e but i get so few safe opportunities to exploit the power i think I'd just end up frustrated with it.
04-05-2017, 04:51 PM
#55
If you must go petrol you might as well go with the E63.
04-05-2017, 04:55 PM
#56
04-05-2017, 04:58 PM
#57
The UK's biggest used car site, autotrader, is only listing 3 used e43s in the UK, all from merc dealers and nothing under 50,000 gbp. Hardly a bargain. About 6k more than equivalent e350d amg line (6 cylinder diesels) are up for used and as they are actually 8k more new then the 350d amg line I'd say e43 price is in-line with expected depreciation. Not a bargain, not overly expensive.
if you go the mercedes UK official site you can get a brand new E43 with 105 miles for £49K, the cheapest E63 on the same site is £89K. For me that says all about the E43....at least in the UK. And I can tell you that in 2 years that E43 will retail for less than an E350D
Edit actually it's £49,990 as well as 3 others with precisely 1501 miles at £49,990
Last edited by gooner; 04-05-2017 at 05:04 PM.
04-05-2017, 05:11 PM
#58
Those 1501 mile cars are the same as on autotrader. I'm not sure if the e43 will be worth less then the 350d. Big diesels aren't great sellers here either so their price is likely to reduce as quickly as the e43 for much the same reason of running costs. However the e43 is a very quick car so that's likely to reduce depreciation as it becomes affordable for more people and it's going to be more desirable on the second hand market. S3s and s4s seem to hold their value very well after they pass about 3 years old. I think the e43 will be the same especially as we get such a small engine range (i did spot that we're getting e400 coupes here which is good). Anyway, i dont think it'll be a volume seller and so i think it will retain a good percentage of list price, especially as it gets older.
04-05-2017, 05:22 PM
#59
Those 1501 mile cars are the same as on autotrader. I'm not sure if the e43 will be worth less then the 350d. Big diesels aren't great sellers here either so their price is likely to reduce as quickly as the e43 for much the same reason of running costs. However the e43 is a very quick car so that's likely to reduce depreciation as it becomes affordable for more people and it's going to be more desirable on the second hand market. S3s and s4s seem to hold their value very well after they pass about 3 years old. I think the e43 will be the same especially as we get such a small engine range (i did spot that we're getting e400 coupes here which is good). Anyway, i dont think it'll be a volume seller and so i think it will retain a good percentage of list price, especially as it gets older.
The point I'm trying to address is the notion that they will sell more E43s in Europe than the states....they won't unless as is the case they are heavily discounted.
Go to cars.com and you will find as at 2 minutes ago 178 E43s for sale, 175 of which are new. Go to the German or Uk website and if you are lucky you will find 10..adjust for poplulation difference and that's equivalent to 50 or 60, clearly Europe is not a primary market for the E43.
Last edited by gooner; 04-05-2017 at 05:33 PM.
04-05-2017, 05:38 PM
#60
The e63 price is par for course for a big engined thirsty car. The e43 isn't as thirsty, has far more reasonable co2 emissions and is also significantly cheaper to initially buy and is also more reasonably powered for UK roads where high power outputs are utterly pointless. The e63 is a terrible example to use as those cars were old fashioned and well off the pace of their German rivals. The e43 has really upped the game for merc,, as has the new e63. These will all retain much better value.
just look to the similar Audi's for an indication of retained value.
A 3.5 year old Audi s6 is around 30k, versus 58k or less for new. Over half real cost retained after 3.5 years, that's pretty good.
3 year old s4s are at least 25k versus 45k real cost new. Nearly 56 percent retained value after 3 years outstanding. That is totally at odds with your assumption.
just look to the similar Audi's for an indication of retained value.
A 3.5 year old Audi s6 is around 30k, versus 58k or less for new. Over half real cost retained after 3.5 years, that's pretty good.
3 year old s4s are at least 25k versus 45k real cost new. Nearly 56 percent retained value after 3 years outstanding. That is totally at odds with your assumption.
04-05-2017, 05:44 PM
#61
I missed the second part of your post, sorry. You're right, it's unlikely to be a big seller in Europe as it's not what our markets go for these days. There is hope however, the UK changed its tax laws this month and it's no longer so punitive to buy a gas guzzler. Diesels are also falling out of favour after dieselgate (i always thought it was ironic that the "people's car" was rigged to hide the fact they were poisoning the people) so this sort of petrol car is ripe for increased sales (not business users, they will still favour ultra low co2 to save income tax on the company car).
My point that it'll hold its value and will not be cheaper than a 350 still holds true though.
My point that it'll hold its value and will not be cheaper than a 350 still holds true though.
04-05-2017, 05:51 PM
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
04-05-2017, 05:54 PM
#63
Go to cars.com and you will find as at 2 minutes ago 178 E43s for sale, 175 of which are new. Go to the German or Uk website and if you are lucky you will find 10..adjust for poplulation difference and that's equivalent to 50 or 60, clearly Europe is not a primary market for the E43.
04-05-2017, 05:54 PM
#64
The e63 price is par for course for a big engined thirsty car. The e43 isn't as thirsty, has far more reasonable co2 emissions and is also significantly cheaper to initially buy and is also more reasonably powered for UK roads where high power outputs are utterly pointless. The e63 is a terrible example to use as those cars were old fashioned and well off the pace of their German rivals. The e43 has really upped the game for merc,, as has the new e63. These will all retain much better value.
just look to the similar Audi's for an indication of retained value.
A 3.5 year old Audi s6 is around 30k, versus 58k or less for new. Over half real cost retained after 3.5 years, that's pretty good.
3 year old s4s are at least 25k versus 45k real cost new. Nearly 56 percent retained value after 3 years outstanding. That is totally at odds with your assumption.
just look to the similar Audi's for an indication of retained value.
A 3.5 year old Audi s6 is around 30k, versus 58k or less for new. Over half real cost retained after 3.5 years, that's pretty good.
3 year old s4s are at least 25k versus 45k real cost new. Nearly 56 percent retained value after 3 years outstanding. That is totally at odds with your assumption.
I lived in the UK for many years so I speak from experience. The bottom line is very few people buy petrol cars so before you purchase a car you factor in your residuals. Like I said if you can pick up a new E43 for 50k what do you think it's going to cost in 2 years? Why would there be a 40K differenctial between a new E43 and the new E63? Look on autotrader and search for e-class, for every 50 petrol e-classes for sale (new and used) there are 1200 diesels....I really don't know how else I can put it to you. Insurance is higher, tax is higher, running costs are higher and residuals are lower. Europeans dont buy petrol.
04-05-2017, 05:57 PM
#65
I missed the second part of your post, sorry. You're right, it's unlikely to be a big seller in Europe as it's not what our markets go for these days. There is hope however, the UK changed its tax laws this month and it's no longer so punitive to buy a gas guzzler. Diesels are also falling out of favour after dieselgate (i always thought it was ironic that the "people's car" was rigged to hide the fact they were poisoning the people) so this sort of petrol car is ripe for increased sales (not business users, they will still favour ultra low co2 to save income tax on the company car).
My point that it'll hold its value and will not be cheaper than a 350 still holds true though.
My point that it'll hold its value and will not be cheaper than a 350 still holds true though.
And yeah things might change after weve found out the whole green diesel thing was a scam but as at now.....
04-05-2017, 05:59 PM
#66
most if those cars have less than 2000 miles! And less than 1 yr by defenition the depreciation will be horrible. Who with a normal mind buys 70000 dollar car and sells in six mths??? Someone that cant pay it and has to eat the loss or a dealer demo. BTW when I lived in DE the VAT was 14%
(i had a w212, great car, just not a good basis for a super saloon imo).
04-05-2017, 08:07 PM
#68
It's gone down in dollar terms now because of the fall in the value of the £. but pre brexit it's averaged about $7/Us gallon for the the last 10 years....hence the popularity of diesel cars.
in Uk terms it's £1.20 /litre, or £4.53/US gallon, (Imperial be £5.5/gal) So anywhere between $7/US gallon and higher pre-brexit to $5.50/US gal at todays exchange rates.
Last edited by gooner; 04-05-2017 at 08:26 PM.
04-05-2017, 10:29 PM
#69
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MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
3 days in and car rides very well given the 20" wheels. Performance is 'spirited'; not a real AMG of course but fun no less. The steering feel is decent for a Benz but the turning radius seems to be abysmal. Coming out of a GLE43 Coupe so still adjusting to the perspective.
Biggest disappointment is the exhaust note; it needs the performance exhaust option with the active flaps. GLE43 Coupe sounded better and it didn't have the active flaps either.
Biggest disappointment is the exhaust note; it needs the performance exhaust option with the active flaps. GLE43 Coupe sounded better and it didn't have the active flaps either.
Last edited by YYZ-E55; 04-05-2017 at 10:32 PM.
04-05-2017, 11:24 PM
#70
MBWorld Fanatic!
3 days in and car rides very well given the 20" wheels. Performance is 'spirited'; not a real AMG of course but fun no less. The steering feel is decent for a Benz but the turning radius seems to be abysmal. Coming out of a GLE43 Coupe so still adjusting to the perspective.
Biggest disappointment is the exhaust note; it needs the performance exhaust option with the active flaps. GLE43 Coupe sounded better and it didn't have the active flaps either.
Biggest disappointment is the exhaust note; it needs the performance exhaust option with the active flaps. GLE43 Coupe sounded better and it didn't have the active flaps either.
04-06-2017, 10:09 AM
#71
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's gone down in dollar terms now because of the fall in the value of the £. but pre brexit it's averaged about $7/Us gallon for the the last 10 years....hence the popularity of diesel cars.
in Uk terms it's £1.20 /litre, or £4.53/US gallon, (Imperial be £5.5/gal) So anywhere between $7/US gallon and higher pre-brexit to $5.50/US gal at todays exchange rates.
in Uk terms it's £1.20 /litre, or £4.53/US gallon, (Imperial be £5.5/gal) So anywhere between $7/US gallon and higher pre-brexit to $5.50/US gal at todays exchange rates.
04-06-2017, 10:29 AM
#72
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
The Audi s8 plus is a beast ... congrats
04-06-2017, 11:09 AM
#73
In addition to fuel being expensive, higher polluting cars attract higher showroom tax. We already pay 20% vat (sales good tax) and low polluting cars, new, attract a further 200 GBP on top, whereas high polluting cars put about 2000 on top. Business users also pay tax on company cars against emissions and they are getting more and more expensive so engine wants low polluting cars to save money. Things like the c350 are super popular here as they appear to be very low emission cars so avoid a lot of tax, even if in reality that's mostly bs.
04-06-2017, 01:01 PM
#74
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MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
