I work for a Mercedes Dealer in Finance
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Joined: May 2015
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2017 C Cabriolet
Interesting discussion on the msd. I have started to consider whether I would want to do that when my E400 coupe arrives. The math of saving $2,000 on $5,000 is how I have looked at msds and why they have made sense to me.
I may be wrong, but to say getting a rate higher than 1.68 on the $5,000 means it is better to invest the 5,000 seems wrong to me.
The 1.68% rate savings with the msd does not apply to the $5,000, it applys to the lease. Thus the 1.68% savings is not just 1.68% of the 5,000. I think that is why the 1.68% reduction saving $2,000 over the course of the lease, results in a 40% return on the $5,000.
I may be wrong, but to say getting a rate higher than 1.68 on the $5,000 means it is better to invest the 5,000 seems wrong to me.
The 1.68% rate savings with the msd does not apply to the $5,000, it applys to the lease. Thus the 1.68% savings is not just 1.68% of the 5,000. I think that is why the 1.68% reduction saving $2,000 over the course of the lease, results in a 40% return on the $5,000.
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MF, with all due respect I am not sure you are calculating the savings correctly. Try running a hypothetical lease using 10 MSDs and one without MSDs. The calculus will show that the savings is approximately $50-60 using 10 MSDs. In the case of the car I am securing that comes to over $2000 in total payment savings. On my C450 lease I saved $2487 over the 48 month period ($445.48 vs $500.00 per month). I recently transferred that lease and got my $5000 in MSDs back.
The return is actually closer to 12.25% per annum (or +/- 40% over the 3 year period when compounded) and not 1.68%. Remember that Money Factors can be only be loosely approximated using the 2400X rule. The true calculation of monthly financing charges equals (Selling Price + Residual) x Money Factor. So not a pure apples to apples comparison.
Hence, the the application of "0.00070 x 2400 = 1.68%" as you calculated as an approximation of the savings is in fact not actual calculation. As you have access to Mercedes lease calculator try running a hypotetical as I mentioned above. The Money Factor is actually reduced to 0.00012 versus 0.00092 -- that's a big difference when you are leasing a $60K plus car.
And as I mentioned earlier, I may be missing completely something but the proof for me is in the monthly payment: $459 versus $399 in the case of the E300 for $5000 in refundable deposits.
The return is actually closer to 12.25% per annum (or +/- 40% over the 3 year period when compounded) and not 1.68%. Remember that Money Factors can be only be loosely approximated using the 2400X rule. The true calculation of monthly financing charges equals (Selling Price + Residual) x Money Factor. So not a pure apples to apples comparison.
Hence, the the application of "0.00070 x 2400 = 1.68%" as you calculated as an approximation of the savings is in fact not actual calculation. As you have access to Mercedes lease calculator try running a hypotetical as I mentioned above. The Money Factor is actually reduced to 0.00012 versus 0.00092 -- that's a big difference when you are leasing a $60K plus car.
And as I mentioned earlier, I may be missing completely something but the proof for me is in the monthly payment: $459 versus $399 in the case of the E300 for $5000 in refundable deposits.
With MBFS you save .00007 per security deposit. If you are doing 10 security deposits then you are saving .00070 off the cost of money. When you convert that .00070 into an interest rate that means you are saving 1.68 % by putting down that cash. (.00070 X 2400= 1.68%)
So you lose the use of that money for 36 months only to save 1.68%. My argument was that you would most likely earn more than 1.68% on that money if you apply it somewhere else vs putting it into the lease and losing the use of that money for the term of the lease.
Just my $.02
Not trying to be disrespectful by telling you what to do with your money.
So you lose the use of that money for 36 months only to save 1.68%. My argument was that you would most likely earn more than 1.68% on that money if you apply it somewhere else vs putting it into the lease and losing the use of that money for the term of the lease.
Just my $.02
Not trying to be disrespectful by telling you what to do with your money.
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 59
Likes: 35
From: Gilbert, AZ
W213 E CLASS
MF, with all due respect I am not sure you are calculating the savings correctly. Try running a hypothetical lease using 10 MSDs and one without MSDs. The calculus will show that the savings is approximately $50-60 using 10 MSDs. In the case of the car I am securing that comes to over $2000 in total payment savings. On my C450 lease I saved $2487 over the 48 month period ($445.48 vs $500.00 per month). I recently transferred that lease and got my $5000 in MSDs back.
The return is actually closer to 12.25% per annum (or +/- 40% over the 3 year period when compounded) and not 1.68%. Remember that Money Factors can be only be loosely approximated using the 2400X rule. The true calculation of monthly financing charges equals (Selling Price + Residual) x Money Factor. So not a pure apples to apples comparison.
Hence, the the application of "0.00070 x 2400 = 1.68%" as you calculated as an approximation of the savings is in fact not actual calculation. As you have access to Mercedes lease calculator try running a hypotetical as I mentioned above. The Money Factor is actually reduced to 0.00012 versus 0.00092 -- that's a big difference when you are leasing a $60K plus car.
And as I mentioned earlier, I may be missing completely something but the proof for me is in the monthly payment: $459 versus $399 in the case of the E300 for $5000 in refundable deposits.
The return is actually closer to 12.25% per annum (or +/- 40% over the 3 year period when compounded) and not 1.68%. Remember that Money Factors can be only be loosely approximated using the 2400X rule. The true calculation of monthly financing charges equals (Selling Price + Residual) x Money Factor. So not a pure apples to apples comparison.
Hence, the the application of "0.00070 x 2400 = 1.68%" as you calculated as an approximation of the savings is in fact not actual calculation. As you have access to Mercedes lease calculator try running a hypotetical as I mentioned above. The Money Factor is actually reduced to 0.00012 versus 0.00092 -- that's a big difference when you are leasing a $60K plus car.
And as I mentioned earlier, I may be missing completely something but the proof for me is in the monthly payment: $459 versus $399 in the case of the E300 for $5000 in refundable deposits.
Have you ever wanted to crawl into a ball and pretend something didnt just happen..... So much for me being the guru here! LOL..... I stand corrected.
Embarrassed..... But corrected.... You are all correct.... and apparently I am an idiot who likes to argue his idiocy!! LOL
Now.... where is that delete button.
My only saving grace.... I was a cello performance major in college... Not a finance major! =)
This is what a music degree gets you!
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From: San Francisco, CA / Middlebury, CT
600 SWB
MF, no worries. I was was concerned that I was missing something and wanted to correct it before I sign the lease next week. Phew, I was ready to call my sales advisor to change the deal. Thank you.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 59
Likes: 35
From: Gilbert, AZ
W213 E CLASS
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 59
Likes: 35
From: Gilbert, AZ
W213 E CLASS
So .... MBFS does allow for a mid term mileage change. It is at $.25/mile. (which is the same as the end of the lease). However they will allow for you to spread that cost over your remaining lease payments.
The call is not automatic however, you must call MB customer care to initiate the purchase of additional miles.
With VCI (where I used to work) They would allow for you to purchase additional miles at a discounted rate, however that total amount would be paid upfront and you cannot spread over your remaining payments.
I hope this helps....
PS... I am 100% sure of this answer.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 1,097
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From: San Francisco, CA / Middlebury, CT
600 SWB
MF, awesome. Thanks! I may buy a couple thousand miles up front and go with the 7,500 mile a year lease. I only need 8-9K miles per year tops and it reduces my monthly to $379 with only $4500 equivalent to the (the dreaded) 10 MSDs. Thanks.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6
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2017 E 300 Sedan
MF, So I signed the deal I posted on page 3, and I feel a kind of sad that I didn't get the best possible outcome, It wasn't until a few days ago I found this site and found this post!
How bad did I get screwed ? =x
well...nothing I can do now. But in 3 years what can I when the lease will end.
no way of finding out now if buying the car? is beneficial?
Or negotiate a new lease ?
I wish I had read your guys post earlier! my fault !
How bad did I get screwed ? =x
well...nothing I can do now. But in 3 years what can I when the lease will end.
no way of finding out now if buying the car? is beneficial?
Or negotiate a new lease ?
I wish I had read your guys post earlier! my fault !
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 59
Likes: 35
From: Gilbert, AZ
W213 E CLASS
MF, So I signed the deal I posted on page 3, and I feel a kind of sad that I didn't get the best possible outcome, It wasn't until a few days ago I found this site and found this post!
How bad did I get screwed ? =x
well...nothing I can do now. But in 3 years what can I when the lease will end.
no way of finding out now if buying the car? is beneficial?
Or negotiate a new lease ?
I wish I had read your guys post earlier! my fault !
How bad did I get screwed ? =x
well...nothing I can do now. But in 3 years what can I when the lease will end.
no way of finding out now if buying the car? is beneficial?
Or negotiate a new lease ?
I wish I had read your guys post earlier! my fault !
I think you should be pretty happy with your deal. According to my math the sales price of the car should have been around 49400.00. on a 57000 car that is pretty amazing! That is more than a 10% discount on a Mercedes! At the end of the day... You have a great car. A great payment and dealt with a dealer you trust!
Put this in perspective... On my personal deal I am paying 749/mo on my lease with $2750.00 down. (I did trade in my VW.... that hurt) But I think at 750/mo I am driving a car that I love love love!
Its all relative!
Congratulations on your new car!
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MF, I agree with you. A "good deal" is subjective to each situation and individual.
WS, if you felt good about your decision at the time of signing then you have a good deal. I have a S550 lease which I know is more than other S class leases. I pay $1,140 a month and I have heard of leases under a thousand a month. But I wanted a special combination of color, designo interior and options. Hence, I felt I got what I wanted at a price which I was comfortable paying. So...congratulations on your car!
WS, if you felt good about your decision at the time of signing then you have a good deal. I have a S550 lease which I know is more than other S class leases. I pay $1,140 a month and I have heard of leases under a thousand a month. But I wanted a special combination of color, designo interior and options. Hence, I felt I got what I wanted at a price which I was comfortable paying. So...congratulations on your car!
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 144
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From: Houston, TX
2019 AMG CLS53
MF,
I am 6 months into a 42 month lease and I would like to lease another Mercedes and return this one. I read what is required if you terminate early, but are the penalties the same if you lease another Mercedes? Thanks
I am 6 months into a 42 month lease and I would like to lease another Mercedes and return this one. I read what is required if you terminate early, but are the penalties the same if you lease another Mercedes? Thanks
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 59
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From: Gilbert, AZ
W213 E CLASS
I really would recommend not trading at this point.
If you want send me a PM I can give you an idea of the amount of negative you might have.
I need your VIN and miles of your car.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2017
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c250
See my previous post on this... MBFS DOES NOT use score to determine rate solely.
But a good rule of thumb would be:
760+ A1
710-759 tier1
675-709 tier 2
625-674 tier 3
580-624 tier 4
<579 R (But possible reject override if you have the right cash down/situation)
I hope this helps!!!!
But a good rule of thumb would be:
760+ A1
710-759 tier1
675-709 tier 2
625-674 tier 3
580-624 tier 4
<579 R (But possible reject override if you have the right cash down/situation)
I hope this helps!!!!
curious, what kinda of APR does MBFS give for each tier? Does new and USED car differ?
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 31,273
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From: on my way
2012 CLS63
If this one works for you please pm. Thanks.
E43W4 $72,400
799 designo Diamond White Metallic $1,515
861 AMG Black Nappa Leather
L6I AMG Performance Steering Wheel $500
P03 P03 Premium 3 Package: Parking Pilot, NFC Wireless Charging, $7,300
RVR 20" AMG Multi-Spoke Wheels Black $750
R01 High-Performance Summer Tires
U17 Black Seat Belts
068 Wheel Locking Bolts $150
070 Chrome Door Handle Inserts $100
15A LED Logo Projectors $200
401 Heated and Ventilated Front Seats $450
413 Power Tilt / Sliding Panorama Sunroof $1,090
51U Black Headliner
521 521 AMG Night Package: High-Gloss Black: Front Splitter, Front Apron $650
736 Natural Grain Black Ash Wood Trim
773 773 AMG Exterior Carbon Fiber Package: Carbon Fiber: Mirror Covers, $1,950
811 Burmester® High-End 3D Surround Sound System $4,550
SUBTOTAL $91,605
DESTINATION & DELIVERY $925
TOTAL $92,530
E43W4 $72,400
799 designo Diamond White Metallic $1,515
861 AMG Black Nappa Leather
L6I AMG Performance Steering Wheel $500
P03 P03 Premium 3 Package: Parking Pilot, NFC Wireless Charging, $7,300
RVR 20" AMG Multi-Spoke Wheels Black $750
R01 High-Performance Summer Tires
U17 Black Seat Belts
068 Wheel Locking Bolts $150
070 Chrome Door Handle Inserts $100
15A LED Logo Projectors $200
401 Heated and Ventilated Front Seats $450
413 Power Tilt / Sliding Panorama Sunroof $1,090
51U Black Headliner
521 521 AMG Night Package: High-Gloss Black: Front Splitter, Front Apron $650
736 Natural Grain Black Ash Wood Trim
773 773 AMG Exterior Carbon Fiber Package: Carbon Fiber: Mirror Covers, $1,950
811 Burmester® High-End 3D Surround Sound System $4,550
SUBTOTAL $91,605
DESTINATION & DELIVERY $925
TOTAL $92,530
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: San Francisco, CA / Middlebury, CT
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 59
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From: Gilbert, AZ
W213 E CLASS
Originally Posted by dbtk
MF,
All else equal, is there a MF difference between A1 and Tier 1 with respect to MBFS?
All else equal, is there a MF difference between A1 and Tier 1 with respect to MBFS?
I hope this helps.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Mercedes e300 2017
Residual value
Many thanks for all the info you've provided. I have one question that hasn't been covered. How does MBFS calculate residual value? Are there other inputs besides original value and term?
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 144
Likes: 3
From: Houston, TX
2019 AMG CLS53
6 months in.... This will most likely be pretty painful with the negative equity. But as far as penalty... There is not a penalty... unless you count a much higher payment as penalty. =)
I really would recommend not trading at this point.
If you want send me a PM I can give you an idea of the amount of negative you might have.
I need your VIN and miles of your car.
I really would recommend not trading at this point.
If you want send me a PM I can give you an idea of the amount of negative you might have.
I need your VIN and miles of your car.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
c250
what are the rates range per tier (if you can say)
And are the rates different for new and used/CPO?
Ive only ever leased with MBFS, but I may be buying soon so I kinda want to get an idea of what they may offer
thanks
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 667
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From: Boston 'burbs
2018 E300 Lux, 2006 Corvette Z51, 2015 Mercedes ML350 (wife's)
This may be a dumb question, but is there EVER a reason that you wouldn't get all of your MSDs back? Like if the car was totaled early on in the lease, etc?
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From: Sarasota, Florida
2023 E450 Cabriolet, 2019 F150 Platinum, 2014 Dodge Challenger R/T
Just want to say thanks to MF for all your help and especially your ability to admit when you flubbed something 
Frankly that goes along way in my book....
Mike
Frankly that goes along way in my book....Mike
