Multi-beam in Canada?
01-19-2021, 04:36 PM
#176
Senior Member
Do MB customers in Canada not have USDs. I guess the people I know outside the US deal (I.e. receipts and expenses) in more than one currency. I’ll have to look into a visit to Vancouver, if there is a discount. Lunch at Sun Sui Wah, the best.
Last edited by Hundens; 01-19-2021 at 04:39 PM.
01-19-2021, 05:14 PM
#178
Senior Member
Ok, so I am naive. I thought that MB customers in Canada being well to do would have some USD income and USD credit cards. US dividends and interest? Does the exchange rate come thru in the MSRPs. Is an E sticker 35% more in Canada?
01-19-2021, 05:27 PM
#179
MBWorld Fanatic!
Actually the base E class sedan in Canada is CA$63,100 (US$49,537) and the corresponding base E class sedan in the US is US$54,250 (CA$69,098). That being said, the included features are different in each country.
01-19-2021, 05:38 PM
#181
Senior Member
I don’t have the energy to crunch the numbers, but the standard equipment could account for much if not most of the difference, like the intelligent lights we are supposed to be discussing. Have you concluded that net net the US and CAN cars are priced about the same. The economists do a similar calculation using a McDonalds cheeseburger.
01-19-2021, 05:51 PM
#183
Our credit cards work in the USA, and our banks just build in the exchange when they send us the bill. It's super easy to actually buy things in USD since half of what we buy online gets sent out of the states, or through American companies, but that's not what we're talking about here. Seeing "$499" and knowing that we're actually paying about 30% more is just painful, that's all.
Having said all of that, what's way more annoying is that we actually don't have the problem you have in the USA with regards to these headlights. They're legal in Canada, and have been for a while now. In fact, in 2018, the government posted something to their "gazette", which is basically how they post amendments to the laws. They become part of the law, but are shown as changes to the existing documents. If anyone wants to see the update that applies to Canada's laws about headlights, they can find it here: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/20...ors43-eng.html There's a section titled Alternative Lamps for Passenger Cars, Three-wheeled Vehicles, Multi-purpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks and Buses. In that section, it states that our laws (the ones that have existed since the last major re-write) regarding vehicles are followed EXCEPT for allowances for improvements to headlights included in this gazette entry, and M-B's multibeams are covered in those new technologies. In fact, it says that if there is an improvement to the safety of passengers and other drivers, then it's law to have to activate those technologies on the vehicles. So arguably, including them on the vehicles in Canada and NOT turning them on is actually illegal. I'm not a lawyer, though, and I'm sure someone else can interpret whether that is actually the case.
I suspect what is happening is that since Mercedes vehicles sold in Canada almost all come from American factories, some things are sent with American standards turned on/activated/etc. LED multibeams being one of them. Most likely because if they activated them at the factory, they'd probably be in violation of American law by driving them in the lots onto the trucks or something. I have no idea. But the point is that they show up here, and the things that should be turned on here aren't. And dealerships don't do it. M-B Canada claims that they can't turn them on here because they're still illegal, when they aren't. I'm guessing that nobody has taken M-B Canada to task legally, and so they just get away with this, since turning them on once they get here would just cost money with regards to technician expense, training, etc. Who knows. I don't have the resources to pursue it legally. But, THIS is what makes the extra money to a third party seem even more ridiculous. If you're buying something that you aren't supposed to have, but desperately want, then the cost might seem more appealing (as is the case for those of you in the States). But paying 700 to 800 for something that your vehicle SHOULD have if you bought the advanced (and expensive, I might add) lighting package here in Canada is just ridiculous.
Sorry about the wall of text here, but I just thought that explaining my research and how pissed I am with M-B (even though I love our vehicle) might help others understand why Canadians are annoyed with the LED multibeam situation.
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Hundens (01-20-2021)
01-19-2021, 06:37 PM
#184
MBWorld Fanatic!
Only the GLE SUV, GLS SUV, GLE Coupe and C-Class are made in the US.
That said, there are many things in life that only need a software setting to enable/disable features such as the cable TV channels that one receives, the speed of an internet connection,etc. and many other services/intangibles. Mercedes-Benz and other vendors sell these features and people should not expect to get them free.
That said, there are many things in life that only need a software setting to enable/disable features such as the cable TV channels that one receives, the speed of an internet connection,etc. and many other services/intangibles. Mercedes-Benz and other vendors sell these features and people should not expect to get them free.
01-20-2021, 10:46 AM
#185
Super Member
And Canadians also have to sign an agreement that the vehicle won't be exported to the US. I don't think that used to be the case in years past, but I could be wrong.
01-20-2021, 10:47 AM
#186
Super Member
I think it's just a misunderstanding is all. Not everyone who owns an expensive car is "well to do". My spouse and I work at the same institution, and so we only need 1 vehicle. We're comfortable, but certainly not well to do. We watch what we spend, and are able to afford a single expensive vehicle, because we appreciate what it does for our lives (better road trips, latest bells and whistles, etc.). Having to pay extra for a programming feature to turn something on that Mercedes should have turned on in Canada to begin with is annoying, but when you consider the exchange rate, it really makes it hurt.
Our credit cards work in the USA, and our banks just build in the exchange when they send us the bill. It's super easy to actually buy things in USD since half of what we buy online gets sent out of the states, or through American companies, but that's not what we're talking about here. Seeing "$499" and knowing that we're actually paying about 30% more is just painful, that's all.
Having said all of that, what's way more annoying is that we actually don't have the problem you have in the USA with regards to these headlights. They're legal in Canada, and have been for a while now. In fact, in 2018, the government posted something to their "gazette", which is basically how they post amendments to the laws. They become part of the law, but are shown as changes to the existing documents. If anyone wants to see the update that applies to Canada's laws about headlights, they can find it here: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/20...ors43-eng.html There's a section titled Alternative Lamps for Passenger Cars, Three-wheeled Vehicles, Multi-purpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks and Buses. In that section, it states that our laws (the ones that have existed since the last major re-write) regarding vehicles are followed EXCEPT for allowances for improvements to headlights included in this gazette entry, and M-B's multibeams are covered in those new technologies. In fact, it says that if there is an improvement to the safety of passengers and other drivers, then it's law to have to activate those technologies on the vehicles. So arguably, including them on the vehicles in Canada and NOT turning them on is actually illegal. I'm not a lawyer, though, and I'm sure someone else can interpret whether that is actually the case.
I suspect what is happening is that since Mercedes vehicles sold in Canada almost all come from American factories, some things are sent with American standards turned on/activated/etc. LED multibeams being one of them. Most likely because if they activated them at the factory, they'd probably be in violation of American law by driving them in the lots onto the trucks or something. I have no idea. But the point is that they show up here, and the things that should be turned on here aren't. And dealerships don't do it. M-B Canada claims that they can't turn them on here because they're still illegal, when they aren't. I'm guessing that nobody has taken M-B Canada to task legally, and so they just get away with this, since turning them on once they get here would just cost money with regards to technician expense, training, etc. Who knows. I don't have the resources to pursue it legally. But, THIS is what makes the extra money to a third party seem even more ridiculous. If you're buying something that you aren't supposed to have, but desperately want, then the cost might seem more appealing (as is the case for those of you in the States). But paying 700 to 800 for something that your vehicle SHOULD have if you bought the advanced (and expensive, I might add) lighting package here in Canada is just ridiculous.
Sorry about the wall of text here, but I just thought that explaining my research and how pissed I am with M-B (even though I love our vehicle) might help others understand why Canadians are annoyed with the LED multibeam situation.
Our credit cards work in the USA, and our banks just build in the exchange when they send us the bill. It's super easy to actually buy things in USD since half of what we buy online gets sent out of the states, or through American companies, but that's not what we're talking about here. Seeing "$499" and knowing that we're actually paying about 30% more is just painful, that's all.
Having said all of that, what's way more annoying is that we actually don't have the problem you have in the USA with regards to these headlights. They're legal in Canada, and have been for a while now. In fact, in 2018, the government posted something to their "gazette", which is basically how they post amendments to the laws. They become part of the law, but are shown as changes to the existing documents. If anyone wants to see the update that applies to Canada's laws about headlights, they can find it here: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/20...ors43-eng.html There's a section titled Alternative Lamps for Passenger Cars, Three-wheeled Vehicles, Multi-purpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks and Buses. In that section, it states that our laws (the ones that have existed since the last major re-write) regarding vehicles are followed EXCEPT for allowances for improvements to headlights included in this gazette entry, and M-B's multibeams are covered in those new technologies. In fact, it says that if there is an improvement to the safety of passengers and other drivers, then it's law to have to activate those technologies on the vehicles. So arguably, including them on the vehicles in Canada and NOT turning them on is actually illegal. I'm not a lawyer, though, and I'm sure someone else can interpret whether that is actually the case.
I suspect what is happening is that since Mercedes vehicles sold in Canada almost all come from American factories, some things are sent with American standards turned on/activated/etc. LED multibeams being one of them. Most likely because if they activated them at the factory, they'd probably be in violation of American law by driving them in the lots onto the trucks or something. I have no idea. But the point is that they show up here, and the things that should be turned on here aren't. And dealerships don't do it. M-B Canada claims that they can't turn them on here because they're still illegal, when they aren't. I'm guessing that nobody has taken M-B Canada to task legally, and so they just get away with this, since turning them on once they get here would just cost money with regards to technician expense, training, etc. Who knows. I don't have the resources to pursue it legally. But, THIS is what makes the extra money to a third party seem even more ridiculous. If you're buying something that you aren't supposed to have, but desperately want, then the cost might seem more appealing (as is the case for those of you in the States). But paying 700 to 800 for something that your vehicle SHOULD have if you bought the advanced (and expensive, I might add) lighting package here in Canada is just ridiculous.
Sorry about the wall of text here, but I just thought that explaining my research and how pissed I am with M-B (even though I love our vehicle) might help others understand why Canadians are annoyed with the LED multibeam situation.
The following users liked this post:
Billyismyname (02-03-2021)
01-20-2021, 03:04 PM
#189
Senior Member
I remain confused. At first blush a "no-export agreement" tells me MBUSA doesn't want to compete with cars coming in from Canada which means the Canadian cars are priced less. If the cars are priced at parity, there is no incentive to buy and import other than maybe to get a particular piece of equipment. Now if the no-export agreement applies only to USA built cars I could see other reasons coming into to play for example quotas, taxes, IP. But the E Class comes from Germany. What difference does it make to MB if you buy the car in Vancouver or Seattle.
All very opaque. God forbid the customer should know what is going on. But it is just an example of the lack of disclosure in the auto industry. What else do you buy where the purchase price is a cat and mouse game.
Soapbox Alert: This hide-the ball mentality is what lead to the diesel gate shenanigans at Audi.
All very opaque. God forbid the customer should know what is going on. But it is just an example of the lack of disclosure in the auto industry. What else do you buy where the purchase price is a cat and mouse game.
Soapbox Alert: This hide-the ball mentality is what lead to the diesel gate shenanigans at Audi.
01-20-2021, 04:08 PM
#190
Junior Member
I remain confused. At first blush a "no-export agreement" tells me MBUSA doesn't want to compete with cars coming in from Canada which means the Canadian cars are priced less. If the cars are priced at parity, there is no incentive to buy and import other than maybe to get a particular piece of equipment. Now if the no-export agreement applies only to USA built cars I could see other reasons coming into to play for example quotas, taxes, IP. But the E Class comes from Germany. What difference does it make to MB if you buy the car in Vancouver or Seattle.
All very opaque. God forbid the customer should know what is going on. But it is just an example of the lack of disclosure in the auto industry. What else do you buy where the purchase price is a cat and mouse game.
Soapbox Alert: This hide-the ball mentality is what lead to the diesel gate shenanigans at Audi.
All very opaque. God forbid the customer should know what is going on. But it is just an example of the lack of disclosure in the auto industry. What else do you buy where the purchase price is a cat and mouse game.
Soapbox Alert: This hide-the ball mentality is what lead to the diesel gate shenanigans at Audi.
It is convoluted enough to make one think government owned MB :-)
01-20-2021, 05:11 PM
#191
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm in Florida and there are many cars being shipped south. This is a very sensitive subject here. I've actually been offered substantial amounts of money to act as a (weekly) straw buyer for some exporters.
01-20-2021, 06:06 PM
#192
Senior Member
Very interesting. That would support the idea that comparable Canadian cars are priced lower than US cars after taking the currency conversion into consideration. I guess there should not be any surprise in that. The US consumer has been raped by Big Pharma on drug prices for years (US prices versus Europearn/Worldwide prices). I expect many of us know of individuals who buy their drugs in Canada. Here in the SW, some folks buy drugs in Mexico. Big Pharma has been able to rely on governmental restrictions to support their pricing, but if MB has to resort to no-export contracts that means absent the contract its probably legal. i have a vague recollection that the MUSFTA and NAFTA before that provided for goods like automobiles to move back and forth freely.
01-20-2021, 07:12 PM
#194
Senior Member
Maybe one of the legal eagles on this forum can check to see if there is a reported case of MB, or any other manufacturer enforcing a no-export agreement. Tough case to take to a jury. "German multi-national manufacturing giant sues elderly Canadian widow for exporting her car in order to protect its gross profit margins in US"
01-21-2021, 10:21 AM
#195
Super Member
Interesting tangent on the topic. Apparently things have changed price-wise since I bought a BMW 320i in Canada back in 1978 for $8,400 USD when the comparable car in the states was selling for $10,000 USD. No problem with warranties either. It was also the last time a dealer ever bought me lunch after doing the paperwork.
01-21-2021, 10:25 AM
#196
Super Member
OK, I'll get this back on course. Is the activation of the full matrix lighting something that any auto repair shop could undertake with the proper MB hardware and software?
01-21-2021, 01:26 PM
#197
Senior Member
Interesting tangent on the topic. Apparently things have changed price-wise since I bought a BMW 320i in Canada back in 1978 for $8,400 USD when the comparable car in the states was selling for $10,000 USD. No problem with warranties either. It was also the last time a dealer ever bought me lunch after doing the paperwork.
01-21-2021, 02:42 PM
#198
If you know someone with the appropriate gear to make changes, and you're willing to mess around with it, it's possible.
01-21-2021, 02:51 PM
#199
Senior Member
Technically, yes. But if you go to the beginning of this thread, there's information from one of the posters (Nephilim, I believe) where he talks about having to do some experimenting with a buddy who had the equipment to make the changes, it wasn't really straightforward what needed to be changed/turned on/etc. and it took them a while to figure out exactly what needed to be done.
If you know someone with the appropriate gear to make changes, and you're willing to mess around with it, it's possible.
If you know someone with the appropriate gear to make changes, and you're willing to mess around with it, it's possible.
01-21-2021, 03:00 PM
#200
I don't think it's that simple, actually. The talented friend has to have the correct equipment, and apparently a login to use (which is a M-B login, I think). So it's not really a situation where a couple of hobbyist mechanics/technicians get together and just try stuff out. I don't know all of the details, but there are quite a few hoops to jump through.
