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Multi-beam in Canada?

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Multi-beam in Canada?

 
Old 10-14-2017, 01:57 PM
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Multi-beam in Canada?

The 2018 model of the E-class appears to offer the Active MULTIBEAM LED lighting system in Canada (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/content/...13.html#/p3520)

Current regulations ban this technology in North America. Though Canada is actually in the midst of allowing this technology through amendments in their Motor Vehicle Regulations (http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/20...l/reg2-eng.php) but that has yet to be approved or put into motion.
So I'm curious as to why MB is offering the multibeam on the E-class now. Since they are not allowed, I'm assuming they do not function as they are intended to--perhaps MB is under the loops knowing that they can eventually offer this and a simple software to allow it to function at 100%? I don't know.

Anyone know more about this?
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:12 PM
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The LEDs are there ... but ...

The 84 x 2 = 168 LEDs are there, but ... they work in a simplified automatic "high beam - low beam" way.

Let's hope they can be upgraded through a software update when they're allowed in Canada.

Pierre

Originally Posted by XPS View Post
The 2018 model of the E-class appears to offer the Active MULTIBEAM LED lighting system in Canada (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/content/...13.html#/p3520)

Current regulations ban this technology in North America. Though Canada is actually in the midst of allowing this technology through amendments in their Motor Vehicle Regulations (http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/20...l/reg2-eng.php) but that has yet to be approved or put into motion.
So I'm curious as to why MB is offering the multibeam on the E-class now. Since they are not allowed, I'm assuming they do not function as they are intended to--perhaps MB is under the loops knowing that they can eventually offer this and a simple software to allow it to function at 100%? I don't know.

Anyone know more about this?
Thanks
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:14 PM
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US based cars have the same headlight module with multi beam but they do not function in the high beam with the benefits of multi beam. I assume this is because it is easier production wise to create two headlight modules (one with full projector bulb multi beam and the base non projector LED headlight) versus three different headlights. You will get cornering light function and auto high beams, though they simply dim completely with oncoming cars and will not isolate the dim to the vehicle.
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:34 PM
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No. It's because it's presently illegal in US and Canada ... because of Dinosaur era regulations. The equipement is there but works in a simplified, and legal, way.

Originally Posted by joshg1001 View Post
US based cars have the same headlight module with multi beam but they do not function in the high beam with the benefits of multi beam. I assume this is because it is easier production wise to create two headlight modules (one with full projector bulb multi beam and the base non projector LED headlight) versus three different headlights. You will get cornering light function and auto high beams, though they simply dim completely with oncoming cars and will not isolate the dim to the vehicle.
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Old 10-14-2017, 03:56 PM
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We use the exact same system, the only difference is that the functiontion(software) that automatically shadows oncomming traffic is disabled. Instead of shadowing it simply engages low beams completely. They are by a significant margin the best headlights in the MB "stable" and among the best on the market. If and when MB certifies the shadowing feature a simple software update is all that is required. Dont hold your breath given the bureaucracy involved in certification.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by c4004matic View Post
We use the exact same system, the only difference is that the functiontion(software) that automatically shadows oncomming traffic is disabled. Instead of shadowing it simply engages low beams completely. They are by a significant margin the best headlights in the MB "stable" and among the best on the market. If and when MB certifies the shadowing feature a simple software update is all that is required. Dont hold your breath given the bureaucracy involved in certification.

Well considering that Canada has the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) with Europe that passed not too long ago, Canada is harmonizing its automotive laws with the WP.29 Regulations of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) and the post I added above about the amendment to allowing new headlight technology to be sold in Canada; it doesn't sound so far fetched to consider seeing the full MULTIBEAM in Canada. US, on the other hand, well they have their own laws and regulations not to par with EU nor do they have plans for updating them from what I see.

I still find it odd that the MULTIBEAM would be used vs a normal LED headlight since many cars nowadays have "Adaptive headlights" that can turn high beams on/off... multibeam seems like an unnecessary added cost to the vehicle for North American models.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ecnavalleb View Post
No. It's because it's presently illegal in US and Canada ... because of Dinosaur era regulations. The equipement is there but works in a simplified, and legal, way.
I realize NA is without multi beam functionality because of regulation. I was simply answering the OP's question about why MB would give us the equipment still knowing that they cant activate it.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:11 AM
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Maybe we're meaning the same thing. We have the same light module as in Europe, just programmed differently because of NA regulations. Look inside from the front (with the lights off, of course ...) and you'll see all the individual LEDs. Let's hope they're (soon) allowed (and interested) to upgrade our cars' software.

Originally Posted by joshg1001 View Post
I realize NA is without multi beam functionality because of regulation. I was simply answering the OP's question about why MB would give us the equipment still knowing that they cant activate it.
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Old 10-15-2017, 01:11 PM
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Yes, we are saying the same thing. The OP was saying it is weird that MBUSA would give us the multi beam hardware even knowing that we cant have the software. I was simply stating that MB needed an upper trim headlight that was different from the standard LED headlight unit, and was probably unwilling to create a third headlight design with no multi beam function for the US
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by joshg1001 View Post
Yes, we are saying the same thing. The OP was saying it is weird that MBUSA would give us the multi beam hardware even knowing that we cant have the software. I was simply stating that MB needed an upper trim headlight that was different from the standard LED headlight unit, and was probably unwilling to create a third headlight design with no multi beam function for the US
Yep I see that it would be more cost-effective not making a third type for the NA market... but is there any difference from the "High Performance LED lighting system" vs the "upper trim" MULTIBEAM-NA version? To me, it just seems unnecessary and MB could have just used one headlight unit. Multibeam seems like a very expensive add on we end up paying for, especially the fact that it doesn't function as it should; so I don't see an "upgrade" from the high performance LED lighting system. #endrant
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:07 AM
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I dont think the LED performance headlight has beams that turn with the wheel, nor the cornering light function, nor auto high beams. In addition, I think their lighting output is not as bright. IIHS rated the multi beam light GOOD, highest marks versus the standard headlight was adequate
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:04 AM
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is true multibeam enabled now?

It looks like the true multibeam lights are legal in Canada since March of 2018:

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/euro...x-led-2180249/

Has Mercedes implemented the software change to allow for proper multi-beam operation? I am looking at getting a 2018 E300 with multi-beam lights and cannot find anywhere that the true multi-beam functionality is activated in Canada. Do I have to wait for the 2019 model?
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by First-e320 View Post
It looks like the true multibeam lights are legal in Canada since March of 2018:

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/euro...x-led-2180249/

Has Mercedes implemented the software change to allow for proper multi-beam operation? I am looking at getting a 2018 E300 with multi-beam lights and cannot find anywhere that the true multi-beam functionality is activated in Canada. Do I have to wait for the 2019 model?
I'm not aware of Mercedes Canada's product plans, but the inclusion of these lamps on these models is partly to allow the functionality to be unlocked in future. I used to work for VW/Audi corporate and have word that colleagues up in Canada are working with the CTA to introduce Audi's Matrix lighting in the new A6, A7, A8, and Q8. These cars will also have matrix-capable lighting on US models and a software update would enable the functionality once the regulatory environment allows.

I'll try to find out.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
I'm not aware of Mercedes Canada's product plans, but the inclusion of these lamps on these models is partly to allow the functionality to be unlocked in future. I used to work for VW/Audi corporate and have word that colleagues up in Canada are working with the CTA to introduce Audi's Matrix lighting in the new A6, A7, A8, and Q8. These cars will also have matrix-capable lighting on US models and a software update would enable the functionality once the regulatory environment allows.

I'll try to find out.
Any update with your colleagues? I don't understand why they can't offer this across models, especially the C-class and A4, which have multi-beam and MATRIX headlights respectively in other markets. The new regulations already allow adaptive headlights based on the UN regulations used by other countries that allow these headlights. Therefore, there is no reason for Mercedes or Audi to hold back in offering these headlights in Canada because regulations have already been updated to allow this technology.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:41 PM
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No update. Most German OEMs nest their Canadian operations under US operations since vehicle codes are harmonized between both countries. Until itís legal in both locales you wonít see it offered in one but not the other.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
No update. Most German OEMs nest their Canadian operations under US operations since vehicle codes are harmonized between both countries. Until itís legal in both locales you wonít see it offered in one but not the other.
Thatís very discouraging to hear. US finds a way to screw Canadians once again.

Unfortunate when our Canadian regulations are now pretty aligned with RoW with changes to our CMVSS with that CETA agreement. Nonetheless, I still believe they will offer this technology in Canada because it was the manufacturers themselves that pushed Canada to allow this technology and regulation amendement in the first place.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by joshg1001 View Post
I dont think the LED performance headlight has beams that turn with the wheel, nor the cornering light function, nor auto high beams. In addition, I think their lighting output is not as bright. IIHS rated the multi beam light GOOD, highest marks versus the standard headlight was adequate
Exactly right. Having them versus not having them is like night and day. They are hands down the brightest head lights I've ever had. The cornering function is really superb. The only function we don't have is the shielding of lights to oncoming traffic.

Good news: In the US. NHTSA Considers Changes to Longstanding Headlight Standards. Comments on the proposed rules are due by December 11, 2018. So it won't be long before the adaptive lights will be totally legal in the United States. https://www.autoindustrylawblog.com/...ght-standards/
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rustybear3 View Post
Exactly right. Having them versus not having them is like night and day. They are hands down the brightest head lights I've ever had. The cornering function is really superb. The only function we don't have is the shielding of lights to oncoming traffic.

Good news: In the US. NHTSA Considers Changes to Longstanding Headlight Standards. Comments on the proposed rules are due by December 11, 2018. So it won't be long before the adaptive lights will be totally legal in the United States. https://www.autoindustrylawblog.com/...ght-standards/
Yes, it's highly likely they will finally be legal in the US. The BIG question is whether MBUSA will permit the reprogramming of our lights on current cars with the Intelligent Lighting systems?
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rbrylaw View Post
Yes, it's highly likely they will finally be legal in the US. The BIG question is whether MBUSA will permit the reprogramming of our lights on current cars with the Intelligent Lighting systems?
Well, quite frankly, we did pay for a system that is partially crippled through no fault of our own. It's really a legal obligation of Mercedes to recalculate through software or whatever, the total working function of a light system that we paid for in good faith. IMO, I suppose it up to us to nag them if and when these standards are finally relaxed.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rustybear3 View Post
Well, quite frankly, we did pay for a system that is partially crippled through no fault of our own. It's really a legal obligation of Mercedes to recalculate through software or whatever, the total working function of a light system that we paid for in good faith. IMO, I suppose it up to us to nag them if and when these standards are finally relaxed.
Welp.......Playing Devil's Advocate: MBUSA could easily tell us the price for the fully functional system would have been more had it been available at the time of purchase and we paid less for a system that did not provide full functionality through no fault of MBUSA. If I had to pay something for them to reprogram my lights on both the E400 and E450, I would do that to have the absolute best I could have while driving at night.
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Old 11-21-2018, 12:22 PM
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People purchased cars with US specifications, not features promoted via test drives and marketing materials for foreign markets. Mercedes-Benz is under no legal obligation to upgrade sold products except as mandated by the NHTSA, i.e., safety recalls.

WYSIWYG
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Old 11-21-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rbrylaw View Post
Welp.......Playing Devil's Advocate: MBUSA could easily tell us the price for the fully functional system would have been more had it been available at the time of purchase and we paid less for a system that did not provide full functionality through no fault of MBUSA. If I had to pay something for them to reprogram my lights on both the E400 and E450, I would do that to have the absolute best I could have while driving at night.
Except that we didn't pay less. At least, I didn't. We paid full price for the optional intelligent light system; no different from our European counterparts. That being said, if I had to pay a little extra to get it activated, I would.

Originally Posted by ua549 View Post
People purchased cars with US specifications, not features promoted via test drives and marketing materials for foreign markets. Mercedes-Benz is under no legal obligation to upgrade sold products except as mandated by the NHTSA, i.e., safety recalls.

WYSIWYG
First of all, who says? We're not updating; we are simply making the unit fully functional again. Secondly, no where in the DOG does it say that their system is any different for the US. market. Those changes to the light system were most likely done at VPC as mandated by NHTSA. Thirdly, if NHTSA mandates that the intelligent light system with shields is now safer than without, as per the article, then I believe MB would comply and readapt those systems capable. We shall see.

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Old 11-21-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rustybear3 View Post
Except that we didn't pay less. At least, I didn't. We paid full price for the optional intelligent light system; no different from our European counterparts. That being said, if I had to pay a little extra to get it activated, I would.

First of all, who says? We're not updating; we are simply making the unit fully functional again. Secondly, no where in the DOG does it say that their system is any different for the US. market. Those changes to the light system were most likely done at VPC as mandated by NHTSA. Thirdly, if NHTSA mandates that the intelligent light system with shields is now safer than without, as per the article, then I believe MB would comply and readapt those systems capable. We shall see.
Maybe you know, but I certainly don't know if what we paid for our intelligent lighting systems is exactly the same price they did in Europe? Different markets have different prices for options as far as I'm aware.
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rbrylaw View Post
Maybe you know, but I certainly don't know if what we paid for our intelligent lighting systems is exactly the same price they did in Europe? Different markets have different prices for options as far as I'm aware.
As far as I'm aware, the pricing structure is basically the same for all markets; nothing that I've read or seen demonstrates anything different. I sincerely doubt that they are having us pay less for the same options offered in European markets.

Have you read anywhere that MB reduced the price of the intelligent light option in the US market because of this lack of shielding? I haven't.

Last edited by rustybear3; 11-21-2018 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rustybear3 View Post
As far as I'm aware, the pricing structure is basically the same for all markets; nothing that I've read or seen demonstrates anything different. I sincerely doubt that they are having us pay less for the same options offered in European markets.

Have you read anywhere that MB reduced the price of the intelligent light option in the US market because of this lack of shielding? I haven't.
No, I haven't read that they charged us less. In my earlier post I was playing Devil's Advocate with an imaginary hypothesis where MBUSA says we paid less. It's all academic at this point. We don't yet know:

1. If we have the exact same lights, just with reduced abilities (I doubt it, but I suppose it's possible)
2. If MBUSA will even consider reprogramming (for a fee or for free) our lighting systems IF the change is ratified by the NHTSA

Over the last three years, we have to believe they've sold thousands and thousands of cars in the US with the limited able'd Intelligent Lighting system. One can surmise it will be costly to reprogram thousands of cars. Will Mercedes be that generous and do this for us? Or will they say, you bought it this way, so we're under no obligation to change your lights? I'd be delighted if they do offer to reprogram. I won't be surprised if they don't.
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