rbrylaw

I will be mighty ticked if all of the sudden MBUSA starts this ridiculous subscription fee: https://www.idropnews.com/news/want-...=notifications

Cambridgehank

I agree. We paid enough for the car and infotainment system.

Turbocharged

If MBUSA thinks it won't affect sales, then they will go ahead and start charging for Apple CarPlay. However, if MBUSA does that, then Mercedes fans will start to get vocal and it may just start pushing potential customers to consider other brands that don't have as many pissed off customers. I don't see this as being a good long term play.

kingscorpian27

Agreed, I would definitely not pay for it. They are loosing sale on built in navigation sales so that’s part of the reason.

Eaton

Well, they have been charging extra on some models for the addition of smartphone features for quite a while now:

rbrylaw

I don't know where you are, but here in the US, Apple CarPlay is not an extra pay option on the E Class. It comes standard.

Eaton

I'm in the US. In higher-end models it is indeed standard, which is why I said some models.
On lower-end models, like the base CLA, it is an optional paid extra: https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/bu...=entertainment

rbrylaw

That's why I made the distinction when I said E Class in my comment. This is after all the W213 Forum, not the CLA forum.

e400c

What the OP is linking to is a lot worse than a one-time payment for the optional feature to have Carplay available in your car. BMW is going to charge their customers an annual subscription for the privilege of using a piece of software that lives already in their iPhones and displaying it in the infotainment system, which uses a passive piece of software (for instance, the upcoming iOS will have significant updates to Apple Carplay that you will get by upgrading your iOS device, without having to touch your infotainment firmware).

It is somewhat similar to the subscription service to Verizon that allows you to have a Wi-Fi hotspot in the car in the US, but it's very easy to live without that option, whereas if you are used to Apple Carplay (I use it a lot for Waze and Google Maps), you will feel robbed of a feature you previously took for granted, all for some mean stingy customer nickel-and-diming. If MBUSA is clever, they will do nothing and let angry BMW customers flock to them... On the other hand, Daimler-Benz just posted the first quarterly loss since 2009, so stinginess may strike here too... https://fortune.com/2019/07/24/merce...candal-airbag/

rbrylaw

Count me as someone who uses Apple CarPlay a LOT. I just cancelled my Pandora account, when a forum member here let me know I could set up all my Pandora stations in the SiriusXM app for free and it's included in the CarPlay app list. If MBUSA decides I should have pay a subscription fee to use something I already have, would just be wrong.

DFWdude

Is BMW simply trying to recover revenues lost because they offer free periodic maintenance for X years (and MBUSA does not)? Seems like it might be a wash to me...

ygmn

Are not subscription fees for something you get every month with content or bandwith?
Like magazines, newspapers, Cable or satelite, Netflix, Cellular service....

So what would this subscription cover?
I have Never used Apple car play as none of my vehicles have it and having never used it I have no idea what I am missing...

Is not Apple Car Play a radio that can talk to your Apple Cell phone and use what is on the phone and have a special screen that is pretty much common for all apple car play cars?

What happens if you pay for it one month - and then never pay again - how can BMW turn it off? (yeah visit dealer)
But if you do not have the car connected to internet because your are cheap (ME) then how?
Are they in radio contact with cars all the time? that scares me more.

Whats next you have to pay monthly to use any other option on the car like distronic or ventilated seats?
Oh you want to use the AC - pay $50 a month.

My brain cannot wrap itself around this one... nor the thinking of the bean counters...

I have no problem paying for option of this (if I want it) but monthly subscriptions! hell no.

Cambridgehank

Not to steal this thread, but how did you transfer stations to the SiriusXM app?

DFWdude

I read that Mercedes will charge for ACP (announced July 27, 2019). Looks like the first year is free...

"The luxury German automaker has confirmed it will charge a subscription fee for Apple CarPlay for drivers of 2019 models onward. It should be noted that buyers will receive one year's access for free, but it will cost $80 per year from then on. Jul 27, 2019"

Has anyone received notice of this from MBUSA?

https://www.google.com/search?safe=o...4dUDCAs&uact=5

2012 merc amg

I wonder about the legalities of BMW doing this where as Car play is a apple thing, there could be a lawsuit. I think Benz would be foolish to follow, they are gonna loose more customers than the money they make for this charge and potential legal fees. I think BMW is just desperate, from what I heard they have financial troubles.

usc96

Your link talks about BMW making this announcement on July 27, 2019, but then you attribute it to Mercedes and ask who has received the BMW notice from MBUSA??

Are you just trying to be funny, are you confused, or do you actually have news of MBUSA making the very same decision BMW made, and on the very same day BMW made its announcement, but that all of us missed?

DFWdude

Not at all confused, not being funny. I simply googled, "does Mercedes charge for apple car play" and the quote is what I got. Why google gave me a result for Mercedes' chief competitor, I have no idea. I just wondered if it was true and MBUSA followed suit. Apparently it isn't.

Doesn't matter to me as I don't drink the apple cool-aid.

Cao Black

Only if they can get away with it. As (if) others follow BWM, MB surely will also.

rraisley

Sales people today are making a (relatively) big deal about Apple Carplay and Android Auto both being free on MB, with only Apple Carplay offered by BMW and at a price. I certainly hope they keep offering it free. But based on what we're seeing on traffic, etc., who knows. The following article, referring to the BMW, is pretty good at explaining the complexities and rationale involved, and makes some good points, many of which apply to MB owners (like if we're paying for AA, they'd probably make sure wide screen, etc. were supported):
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ost-explainer/

Tuxdude

The status of these subscriptions are verified periodically with the server by the car's headunit/infotainment system. And BMW's lackluster way of implementing this already created an outage in May of this year. BMW owners were unable to use CarPlay on their cars during the period of the outage even if they had a valid subscription.

https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/09/bmw-carplay-outage/

https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/10/bmw-carplay-outage/

Car makers are looking for additional revenue streams, and I would not be surprised if more such subscriptions start popping up in future vehicles. Car makers can build the same hardware for all vehicles and then use software to enable/disable features behind a subscription. In terms of cost this might not work for all hardware, especially expensive mechanical components. However, it is very much possible to develop just one infotainment/headunit hardware and provide premium experiences gated behind software subscriptions. Car makers save a lot by avoiding R&D and upfront costs manufacturing different kinds of parts.

Vast majority of consumers think twice about paying a cost upfront but do not mind paying a smaller subscription amount (even if they are actually paying more over time). Most consumers also do not bother canceling subscriptions even if they are not using it. They set up billing with their credit card for the subscription and forget about it altogether. Monthly phone plans (vs prepaid), Netflix subscriptions, Amazon Prime subscriptions, etc. are good examples here. Many folks have redundant subscriptions. Some of them do offer value and exclusive benefits, but it's just typical consumer tendency to not cancel subscriptions.

ua549

If it's on the internet it must be true.

2012 merc amg

It's crazy what BMW is doing, it's not like it even costs them any money for a cloud service with servers and all like it does MB with the Mercedes me app. Basically they offer this feature to be competitive with the other manufactures for the convenience of the custom and it does not cost them much of anything and are trying to nickel and dime the customer.

rraisley

Did you read the BMW article I quoted above? It actually makes some pretty good points on why offering this service certainly /does/ cost them money. By charging for it, they/we would be pretty certain it would stay available and up-to-date, like with, uh, widescreen support? The article is here:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ost-explainer/

CarFan1

Good find. Interesting read.

Tuxdude

I feel that the expectations from the manufacturer with CarPlay (and/or Android Auto) as a subscription vs reality will differ vastly. Car manufacturers in general have been pretty lagging in terms of software OTA updates. The head unit's software and UI's reliability have had at least some bugs. BMW is no exception here.

With Carplay/Android Auto, there are two sides - the software on the head unit and the software on the phone side. To ensure better quality control and interoperability, reference APIs and certification programs are developed by Apple/Google. In other words, when a Car manufacturer comes up with a new head unit for one of the models, they already do these certifications to ensure broader compatibility across different AndroidAuto/CarPlay versions and phone models. Similarly Apple/Google do the other side of compliance ensuring compatibility while developing new versions of their software across a wide range of reference platforms. I agree, that there are bugs when one side changes and probably requires changes from the other side to continue working, but the reference platform and certifications programs are supposed to minimize this especially for the manufacturers. Car manufacturers are also in general weary about pushing new software OTA updates just because it is added overhead cost in general developing, qualifying, certifying and maintaining these software releases.

Now with the subscription model, the expectation is that BMW constantly invests in R&D for this re-certification and fixes any bugs they discover. There is still no promise from BMW regarding how many years after a car's launch they have plans to support the headunit's software. Yes, you can pre-pay for 20 years for a flat rate of $300 which is a small cost. But my point is, BMW has so far not disclosed any plans to do this R&D for any said timeframe for a given car model. Yes, it will be usable for 20 years, but how many years of planned major software updates? How much difference does it make compared to getting only very minor or no software updates from the manufacturer? Does that justify the cost of the subscription? Another aspect is would BMW really fix the bugs or just try to minimize cost on their side to invest that R&D instead just for newer models?

Do check out the BMW CarPlay outage I shared earlier. Even though you had a valid CarPlay subscription, you couldn't use it because the Head Unit couldn't authenticate with the server to confirm the subscription. These kind of license validation and DRM related problems have been solved reliably by companies with great software engineering expertise to tolerate such outages, and we can see already how far BMW is lagging behind compared to traditional software companies.

I feel the whole subscription model in general is a good seller point since most folks just think in terms of per term (i.e. per month, per year) cost and consider that they always have the flexibility to cancel if they do not need. However what most folks fails to realize is that they add the subscriptions to Auto-pay and really forget how much they are paying among all subscriptions combined. People also rarely cancel subscriptions.

Google/Apple on the other hand have had better history with respect to retaining backwards compatibility and reliability when developing new software versions, and they have the resources to achieve this better than the car manufacturers. So if the car's head unit software does not change, there is a very high chance that the newer versions of AndroidAuto/CarPlay continue to work with the existing head unit.

This was one of the reasons I avoided a BMW when purchasing my 2019 AMG C63S, especially since I work in similar software product area and understand the associated complexities. Having said that, at the same time I am still disappointed that MB just stuck the SD version of Android Auto in our widescreen head units with a hardcoded logo on one side instead of supporting the HD one (i.e. widescreen AA).

My point being, car manufacturers have control over the head unit software and have no intention to become Apple or Google when it comes to delivering OTAs for their devices irrespective of whether you pay a subscription fee or not.