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We don’t know the reason because Mercedes hasn’t communicated anything. Your speculation is completely wild and not based on any facts. As for legal barriers,all Mercedes would need to do, if it cared about customers, is to say (for example ) that their relationship with Tomtom is ending, subscriptions cannot be renewed , that they regret the inconvenience,, that they are hard at work on providing an alternative solution and that they hope to know more soon No legal issues in these statements (and I’m an attorney). Mercedes hasn’t bothered to say any of these things.
My speculation is wild by intention, to illustrate the futility in questioning why a business does anything without actual knowledge.
As a successfully retired Product Development Manager for 3 multi-national (high-tech) corporations, I can tell you there are instances when you do NOT announce future product releases (or product terminations), or the reasons for same, until the time is proper, to ensure that it does not advantage or disadvantage a competitor, or affect one's own sales. In some cases (if not many) announcing future plans can "overhang the market," with knock-on effects in the stock markets, investment community, etc. People sometimes go to jail for these transgressions.
In my experience, the larger the corporation -- and MB is without doubt huge -- the more reluctant to be communicative regarding changes, simply to avoid complications, and lawsuits in particular. Sadly enough, the larger corporations have equally large legal departments that can seldom agree on how to address a situation like this one.
My speculation is wild by intention, to illustrate the futility in questioning why a business does anything without actual knowledge.
As a successfully retired Product Development Manager for 3 multi-national (high-tech) corporations, I can tell you there are instances when you do NOT announce future product releases (or product terminations), or the reasons for same, until the time is proper, to ensure that it does not advantage or disadvantage a competitor, or affect one's own sales. In some cases (if not many) announcing future plans can "overhang the market," with knock-on effects in the stock markets, investment community, etc. People sometimes go to jail for these transgressions.
In my experience, the larger the corporation -- and MB is without doubt huge -- the more reluctant to be communicative regarding changes, simply to avoid complications, and lawsuits in particular. Sadly enough, the larger corporations have equally large legal departments that can seldom agree on how to address a situation like this one.
All true, but as an ex-Product Management manager as well as development VP I can assure you that creating a situation where you have to silently drop support for the current product while not being able to convey future plans should get you fired.
For some reason I thought the new cars used Sirus XM for their traffic? I think thats what my car uses. Sometimes it works other times it does not, seems pretty unreliable for that reason I generally use google maps or waze via apple car play.
^^ if you go into the navigation menu, I forgot the exact location, but there is a menu item labeled "live traffic subscription". Click on it and it will tell you when it expires and where it is getting the data from. Mine says Tom Tom, ending in Nov 23 which is exactly three years after I bought the car. This really sucks as I like to look ahead and see if there is traffic, even if the Tom Tom traffic is often unreliable, its better than nothing. I hate the idea of plugging in my phone every time I get into the car. Until Mercedes rolls out wireless CarPlay, this is not an ideal solution.
As for whether Tom Tom will be renewed, my guess is that it won't be. I am curious what the new MBUX system uses for traffic, as they are probably going to use that extensively and discontinue support for all other services.
For some reason I thought the new cars used Sirus XM for their traffic? I think thats what my car uses. Sometimes it works other times it does not, seems pretty unreliable for that reason I generally use google maps or waze via apple car play.
The previous generation used Sirius, but Mercedes switched to Tomtom in the W213. When I bought this car, Sirius refunded the unused part of my traffic subscription from the car this replaced.
All true, but as an ex-Product Management manager as well as development VP I can assure you that creating a situation where you have to silently drop support for the current product while not being able to convey future plans should get you fired.
Whoover, it’s apparent from your postings that you, and whoever employed you, had absolutely no regard for customers. If you don’t work for Mercedes already, you should apply for a job. You would be a perfect fit.
Whoover, it’s apparent from your postings that you, and whoever employed you, had absolutely no regard for customers. If you don’t work for Mercedes already, you should apply for a job. You would be a perfect fit.
It would be interesting to find out what exactly is not supported anymore. I saw this thread earlier and was worried that my 2019 C63S wouldn't get live traffic anymore. The 2019 models use a new online platform called Mercedes Me Connect. It's not the old mBrace or Mercedes Me stuff anymore. Comes with an entirely new phone app as well. But the website says live traffic is supplied by TomTom, so that got me curious. I finally was reunited with my car a week ago after doing European Delivery and the dealer activated all my services and I do get live traffic. So not sure what's going on, but they could clearly activate live traffic for my car. Maybe the website is wrong and and they switched the provider for the new Connect platform already, or this is an issue exclusive to the older MB online platforms. Perhaps they are working on an update to migrate all the older models to the new platform eventually.
Last edited by superswiss; 09-24-2019 at 04:19 PM.
Well my 3 years were up Sep 27th and same thing the guy from Mbrace said they can't turned it on and that my traffic is now turned off. Called XM and they also confirmed that the car is not compatible.
Only if the hardware supports the replacement software.
This has nothing to do with that. A 2017 with the same hardware as a 2020: the 2020 is supported but the 2017 isn't. How would you like to be told that Excel will no longer work on your Dell but if you buy a new Dell of exactly the same model you can use Excel again? And by the way, told by Dell.
This has nothing to do with that. A 2017 with the same hardware as a 2020: the 2020 is supported but the 2017 isn't. How would you like to be told that Excel will no longer work on your Dell but if you buy a new Dell of exactly the same model you can use Excel again? And by the way, told by Dell.
The hardware was changed/upgraded between the 2017 and 2018 model years. There is an old thread about the changes. I recall part of the change was the LINGUATRONIC hardware, a core component of the nav system. There is no backward compatibility to the old hardware.
The hardware was changed/upgraded between the 2017 and 2018 model years. There is an old thread about the changes. I recall part of the change was the LINGUATRONIC hardware, a core component of the nav system. There is no backward compatibility to the old hardware.
All TomTom-based COMANDS are compatible with the service. The ones now unable to access because of license issues have the same hardware as mine, which has another two years or a '19 or '20 bought today, which will work for three years from the day it's activated. This is not a hardware obsolescence issue at all. It's a licensing issue.
Looks like TomTom GO has been added to Apple Carplay, so it looks like that's the reason they no longer support Live Traffic. No indication on Android Auto support.
We don’t know the reason because Mercedes hasn’t communicated anything. Your speculation is completely wild and not based on any facts. As for legal barriers,all Mercedes would need to do, if it cared about customers, is to say (for example ) that their relationship with Tomtom is ending, subscriptions cannot be renewed , that they regret the inconvenience,, that they are hard at work on providing an alternative solution and that they hope to know more soon No legal issues in these statements (and I’m an attorney). Mercedes hasn’t bothered to say any of these things.
well I’m not an attorney but here is what I am. An experienced business man. I have been I touch with MBUSA, dealerships, mbrace, etc. All conversations have been recorded by MBUSA as well as by me for record keeping purposes. Mbrace personnel did not know was out the issue except in tech support I once they called CAS at MBUSA. Dealerships are not aware. The Exec Referal service is aware.
i bought a $70,000 E300 in October 2017. This included the feature of live traffic that informs route guidance. When I purchase the vehicle I was told that I had a 5 year complimentary subscription. Recall I paid $70k...so nothing is complimentary, it is simply bundled into the cost of the vehicle. At the POS, I was not informed that in 3 years I would no longer have access to the feature. I at no time have been informed in writing or otherwise by any party that this feature would no longer be functionally available to me. Moreover it is clear from the MBUSA website that this feature is renewable and there is no mention that it will cease to function. The issue here folks is that of one of disclosure and functionality. If MBUSA controls the ability to use a feature that they have sold you and then toggle it off for whatever reason, then they have devalued my car and have failed to meet their committment to provide the feature. Since we have no option to contract directly with Tom Tom then the feature functionality rests with MBUSA alone. So they have falsely and fraudulently advertised a feature with complete failure of accurate disclosure. They have moreover willfully and recklessly discontinued a feature without providing an alternative while suggesting an alternative exists (see website stating renewal is an option). Recall we are at the front end of this problem and there are 2 years worth of cars that will be affected. So the storm is coming. I will be consulting an attorney as there may well be course for a class-action suit against MBUSA as this impacts all 2017/2018 e class vehicles with Nav. They need to with provide a subscription, software or hardware solution or I will be seeking legal action against MBUSA. It’s not that the car cannot so it, it’s that MBUSA has allowed the functionality to expire.
well I’m not an attorney but here is what I am. An experienced business man. I have been I touch with MBUSA, dealerships, mbrace, etc. All conversations have been recorded by MBUSA as well as by me for record keeping purposes. Mbrace personnel did not know was out the issue except in tech support I once they called CAS at MBUSA. Dealerships are not aware. The Exec Referal service is aware.
i bought a $70,000 E300 in October 2017. This included the feature of live traffic that informs route guidance. When I purchase the vehicle I was told that I had a 5 year complimentary subscription. Recall I paid $70k...so nothing is complimentary, it is simply bundled into the cost of the vehicle. At the POS, I was not informed that in 3 years I would no longer have access to the feature. I at no time have been informed in writing or otherwise by any party that this feature would no longer be functionally available to me. Moreover it is clear from the MBUSA website that this feature is renewable and there is no mention that it will cease to function. The issue here folks is that of one of disclosure and functionality. If MBUSA controls the ability to use a feature that they have sold you and then toggle it off for whatever reason, then they have devalued my car and have failed to meet their committment to provide the feature. Since we have no option to contract directly with Tom Tom then the feature functionality rests with MBUSA alone. So they have falsely and fraudulently advertised a feature with complete failure of accurate disclosure. They have moreover willfully and recklessly discontinued a feature without providing an alternative while suggesting an alternative exists (see website stating renewal is an option). Recall we are at the front end of this problem and there are 2 years worth of cars that will be affected. So the storm is coming. I will be consulting an attorney as there may well be course for a class-action suit against MBUSA as this impacts all 2017/2018 e class vehicles with Nav. They need to with provide a subscription, software or hardware solution or I will be seeking legal action against MBUSA. It’s not that the car cannot so it, it’s that MBUSA has allowed the functionality to expire.
Unfortunately, that's not how this works. Services like mBrace come with terms of service that you agree to when signing up for the service. Even though it was included with the purchase of the car, when you set up your account you agreed to those terms of service. Most of them specially state that the availability of the services are not guaranteed in perpetuity or any time frame for that matter. Technology changes and commercial availability may cause certain or all services to stop working. As a software engineer, I can tell you this is common practice as nobody can guarantee that required technology and software remains available.
Here are the mBrace terms of service you agreed to. Generally nobody reads them, but you can't complain later if the services get discontinued if you didn't read them. Also, the only thing that was really part of the $70k you paid for your car are the first 3 years of live traffic. The purchase of the car does not guarantee that the service will be in fact renewable when the time comes.
If you seek any legal actions, this is where you need to start. I'm too lazy to read all 17 pages, but if you read them I'm sure you'll find plenty of language that will allow MB to discontinue any of the services at any time, w/o even needing to inform their customers. It's certainly good practice to at least inform customers that one or more services are going away, but it's not required. Also, they didn't actually cut of the service for anybody who currently enjoys the 3 complementary years. They do inform everybody that they can't renew it when you call them and try to renew.
Anyway, as I stated earlier TomTom still seems to support live traffic. I just got it activated recently in my 2019 C63S, but starting with the MY2019, MB has moved to a new online platform called Mercedes Me Connect. The mBrace platform is end of life, so I think the problem here is that TomTom may no longer support renewal of the service for the old mBrace platform. They clearly still support it for the new Mercedes Me Connect platform, otherwise I wouldn't have live traffic now. This is unfortunately how technology works. Things get obsoleted fairly quickly. Question is what MBs plans are for older models that still use the mBrace platform. Are they working on a software update to upgrade them to the Mercedes Me Connect platform or are they just letting it go. Unfortunately, if history is any indication, then car manufacturers don't care much about already sold cars. They want you to buy a new car with the latest tech.
Last edited by superswiss; 10-14-2019 at 10:38 PM.
Unfortunately, that's not how this works. Services like mBrace come with terms of service that you agree to when signing up for the service. Even though it was included with the purchase of the car, when you set up your account you agreed to those terms of service. Most of them specially state that the availability of the services are not guaranteed in perpetuity or any time frame for that matter. Technology changes and commercial availability may cause certain or all services to stop working. As a software engineer, I can tell you this is common practice as nobody can guarantee that required technology and software remains available.
Here are the mBrace terms of service you agreed to. Generally nobody reads them, but you can't complain later if the services get discontinued if you didn't read them. Also, the only thing that was really part of the $70k you paid for your car are the first 3 years of live traffic. The purchase of the car does not guarantee that the service will be in fact renewable when the time comes.
If you seek any legal actions, this is where you need to start. I'm too lazy to read all 17 pages, but if you read them I'm sure you'll find plenty of language that will allow MB to discontinue any of the services at any time, w/o even needing to inform their customers. It's certainly good practice to at least inform customers that one or more services are going away, but it's not required. Also, they didn't actually cut of the service for anybody who currently enjoys the 3 complementary years. They do inform everybody that they can't renew it when you call them and try to renew.
Anyway, as I stated earlier TomTom still seems to support live traffic. I just got it activated recently in my 2019 C63S, but starting with the MY2019, MB has moved to a new online platform called Mercedes Me Connect. The mBrace platform is end of life, so I think the problem here is that TomTom may no longer support renewal of the service for the old mBrace platform. They clearly still support it for the new Mercedes Me Connect platform, otherwise I wouldn't have live traffic now. This is unfortunately how technology works. Things get obsoleted fairly quickly. Question is what MBs plans are for older models that still use the mBrace platform. Are they working on a software update to upgrade them to the Mercedes Me Connect platform or are they just letting it go. Unfortunately, if history is any indication, then car manufacturers don't care much about already sold cars. They want you to buy a new car with the latest tech.
well I read it and while your thoughts have merit they are not part of the agreement. In fact they specifically say that if services are discontinued during the warranty period mb must supply a solution. Moreover the service was part of the purchase of the vehicle and not a separate purchase and as such fall under the terms of the purchase. I too have a software background and no court will allow a company get away with selling hardware that will be made obsolete at the will of the provider. We sharvsee
well I read it and while your thoughts have merit they are not part of the agreement. In fact they specifically say that if services are discontinued during the warranty period mb must supply a solution. Moreover the service was part of the purchase of the vehicle and not a separate purchase and as such fall under the terms of the purchase. I too have a software background and no court will allow a company get away with selling hardware that will be made obsolete at the will of the provider. We sharvsee
I'm curious as to which section you interpret that way. I did a quick scan and this one is what I found speaks to the warranty period. It only addresses hardware in the car, not the software and it only obligates MB to offer replacement materials during the base warranty period, but the owner is still responsible for the cost of replacing it. This specifically addresses situations where the wireless carriers change their technology that renders the equipment in the car unable to communicate. I actually went through this with Audi a few years ago. They used T-Mobile as the carrier and T-Mobile decided to refarm their 3G network to a frequency band that wasn't supported by the telephone module in the car and effectively downgraded the system to 2G. Audi offered a replacement part to original owners if the car was still under warranty and I got it replaced in my RS5.
Not being able to renew live traffic is not a hardware issue. It's purely software and one of their service partners no longer supports it. Software is never guaranteed unless there is an SLA (service level agreement) in place, which is not the case here.
In the event of any regulatory, governmental, or other legally-compelled changes, or discontinuation or change of necessary telecommunications systems and services (e.g., if our wireless carrier terminates or restricts wireless services of the type used by your Vehicle’s Equipment), you are solely responsible for replacing, as well as the cost of replacing, any Equipment that is necessitated as a result of such change or discontinuation, except that if such change occurs during your Vehicle’s base warranty period, you will still be responsible for the cost of such replacement, but we or the Mercedes-Benz Companies will be responsible for obtaining and providing you with the necessary replacement materials (if applicable).
08-31-2019, 03:03 PM
