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I'm curious as to which section you interpret that way. I did a quick scan and this one is what I found speaks to the warranty period. It only addresses hardware in the car, not the software and it only obligates MB to offer replacement materials during the base warranty period, but the owner is still responsible for the cost of replacing it. This specifically addresses situations where the wireless carriers change their technology that renders the equipment in the car unable to communicate. I actually went through this with Audi a few years ago. They used T-Mobile as the carrier and T-Mobile decided to refarm their 3G network to a frequency band that wasn't supported by the telephone module in the car and effectively downgraded the system to 2G. Audi offered a replacement part to original owners if the car was still under warranty and I got it replaced in my RS5.
Not being able to renew live traffic is not a hardware issue. It's purely software and one of their service partners no longer supports it. Software is never guaranteed unless there is an SLA (service level agreement) in place, which is not the case here.
It's not that the partner doesn't support the software. It's that MB is preventing the partner from supporting it. When it works on one car but not on an identical car (consider a 2018 that was sold in 2017 and another 2018 that sat in stock until 2019, for instance) none of the usual product lifecycle arguments are really applicable. Certainly, comparing it with obsoleted hardware or even software gone out of support makes no sense. MB allows the software to be supported (whether by them or their partner) on one instance and not on the other, identical, model. There's really no precedent in normal hardware or software support agreements that can be applied. I'm not necessarily arguing that customers have a winning legal argument -- just that you can't find the answer in a computer EULA.
“...or discontinuation or change of necessary telecommunications systems and services (e.g., if our wireless carrier terminates or restricts wireless services of the type used by your Vehicle’s Equipment), you are solely responsible for replacing, as well as the cost of replacing, any Equipment that is necessitated as a result of such change or discontinuation, except that if such change occurs during your Vehicle’s base warranty period, you will still be responsible for the cost of such replacement, but we or the Mercedes-Benz Companies will be responsible for obtaining and providing you with the necessary replacement materials (if applicable).”
that clause in its self is exactly what is relevant. It’s speaks to “systems and services”. Which speaks to with hardware or software. I am ok to pay for an upgrade but will require MB to provide the solution as they are required. I am not ok for MB to not offer a solution at all. They are bound by contract to provide me with a solution. Moreover we know that’s the service still exists as cats through the model year of 2018 still use it. So the service is not discontinued. They are just playing on the premise the my serve agreement ended at 3 years without option to renew. The lack of option to renew also renders MB in legal jeopardy as they would be acting in bad faith in the sale of the car in that they (a) did not provide me with any notifications prior to devaluing my car; (b) they acted with willful disregard of their commitment to provide equipment that functions. The key here is functions. The equipment still works but is rendered non-functional by their termination of agreement with TomTom. So in the courts they will dean this as no different than providing a customer with technology that has no valid software to support it thus making it non-functional. This is not about obscelensense but rather a choice that MB USA AND TOM TOM made. I’m willing to be the thousands of owners out there would be more than happy to join a class action suit that finds MB USA willfully and knowingly reduce and eliminated. Functionality in our vehicles without any notifications
“...or discontinuation or change of necessary telecommunications systems and services (e.g., if our wireless carrier terminates or restricts wireless services of the type used by your Vehicle’s Equipment), you are solely responsible for replacing, as well as the cost of replacing, any Equipment that is necessitated as a result of such change or discontinuation, except that if such change occurs during your Vehicle’s base warranty period, you will still be responsible for the cost of such replacement, but we or the Mercedes-Benz Companies will be responsible for obtaining and providing you with the necessary replacement materials (if applicable).”
that clause in its self is exactly what is relevant. It’s speaks to “systems and services”. Which speaks to with hardware or software. I am ok to pay for an upgrade but will require MB to provide the solution as they are required. I am not ok for MB to not offer a solution at all. They are bound by contract to provide me with a solution. Moreover we know that’s the service still exists as cats through the model year of 2018 still use it. So the service is not discontinued. They are just playing on the premise the my serve agreement ended at 3 years without option to renew. The lack of option to renew also renders MB in legal jeopardy as they would be acting in bad faith in the sale of the car in that they (a) did not provide me with any notifications prior to devaluing my car; (b) they acted with willful disregard of their commitment to provide equipment that functions. The key here is functions. The equipment still works but is rendered non-functional by their termination of agreement with TomTom. So in the courts they will dean this as no different than providing a customer with technology that has no valid software to support it thus making it non-functional. This is not about obscelensense but rather a choice that MB USA AND TOM TOM made. I’m willing to be the thousands of owners out there would be more than happy to join a class action suit that finds MB USA willfully and knowingly reduce and eliminated. Functionality in our vehicles without any notifications
Again, that clause is not applicable. No one has discontinued anything used by the vehicle. It all still works. MB just won't let you license it. There is nothing to replace. It doesn't work based solely on the date you first activated it. Fundamentally, it's NOT beyond MB's control, which goes to the heart of this clause.
“...or discontinuation or change of necessary telecommunications systems and services (e.g., if our wireless carrier terminates or restricts wireless services of the type used by your Vehicle’s Equipment), you are solely responsible for replacing, as well as the cost of replacing, any Equipment that is necessitated as a result of such change or discontinuation, except that if such change occurs during your Vehicle’s base warranty period, you will still be responsible for the cost of such replacement, but we or the Mercedes-Benz Companies will be responsible for obtaining and providing you with the necessary replacement materials (if applicable).”
that clause in its self is exactly what is relevant. It’s speaks to “systems and services”. Which speaks to with hardware or software. I am ok to pay for an upgrade but will require MB to provide the solution as they are required. I am not ok for MB to not offer a solution at all. They are bound by contract to provide me with a solution. Moreover we know that’s the service still exists as cats through the model year of 2018 still use it. So the service is not discontinued. They are just playing on the premise the my serve agreement ended at 3 years without option to renew. The lack of option to renew also renders MB in legal jeopardy as they would be acting in bad faith in the sale of the car in that they (a) did not provide me with any notifications prior to devaluing my car; (b) they acted with willful disregard of their commitment to provide equipment that functions. The key here is functions. The equipment still works but is rendered non-functional by their termination of agreement with TomTom. So in the courts they will dean this as no different than providing a customer with technology that has no valid software to support it thus making it non-functional. This is not about obscelensense but rather a choice that MB USA AND TOM TOM made. I’m willing to be the thousands of owners out there would be more than happy to join a class action suit that finds MB USA willfully and knowingly reduce and eliminated. Functionality in our vehicles without any notifications
It speaks to "telecommunications systems and services", an important distinction. Live traffic is not a telecommunication system and service. LTE and the Hermes module are telecommunications systems and services. Live traffic is an application protocol running on top of the telecommunications systems and services. There's something called a network stack, and Live Traffic falls in the Application layer, which is the top layer. Underneath of it are the telecommunication systems and services that facilitate this particular application. I understand the frustration with this situation, but you will have a tough time getting anywhere trying to take legal action against MB for not offering an alternative to TomTom live traffic after the first 3 years.
Last edited by superswiss; 10-15-2019 at 02:37 AM.
It's not that the partner doesn't support the software. It's that MB is preventing the partner from supporting it. When it works on one car but not on an identical car (consider a 2018 that was sold in 2017 and another 2018 that sat in stock until 2019, for instance) none of the usual product lifecycle arguments are really applicable. Certainly, comparing it with obsoleted hardware or even software gone out of support makes no sense. MB allows the software to be supported (whether by them or their partner) on one instance and not on the other, identical, model. There's really no precedent in normal hardware or software support agreements that can be applied. I'm not necessarily arguing that customers have a winning legal argument -- just that you can't find the answer in a computer EULA.
OP was told that TomTom no longer supports it. There's no evidence at least as far as I've seen that MB is blocking the renewal for some reason. It's very well possible that TomTom has contractual obligation to honor the first 3 years of the service, because it's sold with the car and essentially guaranteed, but beyond that TomTom is probably free to move on and change the services and APIs and eventually sunset the older system, so MB probably needs to provide a software update to make the system work with whatever changes TomTom made. However, MB really has no obligation to do so beyond making its customers happy.
OP was told that TomTom no longer supports it. There's no evidence at least as far as I've seen that MB is blocking the renewal for some reason. It's very well possible that TomTom has contractual obligation to honor the first 3 years of the service, because it's sold with the car and essentially guaranteed, but beyond that TomTom is probably free to move on and change the services and APIs and eventually sunset the older system, so MB probably needs to provide a software update to make the system work with whatever changes TomTom made. However, MB really has no obligation to do so beyond making its customers happy.
2020 models still use TomTom and guarantee three years of service. A 2020 model sold, say, 1/1/2021 will have service until 1/1/2024. So when a 2017 model that uses the same service reaches the three-year point, without the possibility of renewal, it IS being blocked from using a service that we know will be running until at least 2024.
2020 models still use TomTom and guarantee three years of service. A 2020 model sold, say, 1/1/2021 will have service until 1/1/2024. So when a 2017 model that uses the same service reaches the three-year point, without the possibility of renewal, it IS being blocked from using a service that we know will be running until at least 2024.
A 2020 model does not use mBrace anymore. As I said before, starting with MY2019 MB uses an entirely new platform called Mercedes Me Connect. New phone app, new portal, new everything. The fact that TomTom is supported on the new Mercedes Me Connect platform has nothing to do with mBrace on models prior to 2019.
Last edited by superswiss; 10-15-2019 at 02:54 AM.
A 2020 model does not use mBrace anymore. As I said before, starting with MY2019 MB uses an entirely new platform called Mercedes Me Connect. New phone app, new everything. The fact that TomTom is supported on the Mercedes Me Connect platform has nothing to do with mBrace on models prior to 2019.
mBrace vs. Mercedes Me has nothing to do with LiveTraffic. The TomTom communications with COMAND is the same for all NTG 5*5 head units. The support portal is irrelevant. Furthermore, when I go to the Mercedes Me portal, the page that allowed renewal of Live Traffic has been removed. In other words, when my early 2019 reaches three years I will lose the service that later 2019s and 2020s will still be using. The renewal was there when I first checked in January 2019, but it was removed.
This is purely a licensing issue and has nothing to do with mBrace or COMAND hardware.
mBrace vs. Mercedes Me has nothing to do with LiveTraffic. The TomTom communications with COMAND is the same for all NTG 5*5 head units. The support portal is irrelevant. Furthermore, when I go to the Mercedes Me portal, the page that allowed renewal of Live Traffic has been removed. In other words, when my early 2019 reaches three years I will lose the service that later 2019s and 2020s will still be using. The renewal was there when I first checked in January 2019, but it was removed.
This is purely a licensing issue and has nothing to do with mBrace or COMAND hardware.
Just curious, this portal https://www.me.mercedes-benz.com/? They've been having technical difficulties with the new portal according to their support, and it's not fully operational yet so anything missing is no indication that it's no longer available. It's actually down at the moment. I can't login. I have to check tomorrow and see if I can login again and see what shows up on the Manage my service page in terms of renewals, but this portal is largely not functioning correctly at the moment, and I'm not sure when all the issues will be resolved. All they could tell me is that they are working on it.
Just curious, this portal https://www.me.mercedes-benz.com/? They've been having technical difficulties with the new portal according to their support, and it's not fully operational yet so anything missing is no indication that it's no longer available. It's actually down at the moment. I can't login. I have to check tomorrow and see if I can login again and see what shows up on the Manage my service page in terms of renewals, but this portal is largely not functioning correctly at the moment, and I'm not sure when all the issues will be resolved. All they could tell me is that they are working on it.
Yes, it's down now. But the renewal disappeared quite a while ago, before they moved to the new portal. That is the entire issue -- no TomTom Live Traffic user can renew the service any more.
Yes, it's down now. But the renewal disappeared quite a while ago, before they moved to the new portal. That is the entire issue -- no TomTom Live Traffic user can renew the service any more.
I currently don't trust the portal at all, so if something has disappeared regardless of when it disappeared doesn't really mean anything at the moment, IMO. There are a bunch of things I understand that have disappeared and can currently only be managed/viewed in the phone app. If you call their support, they are actually telling people that only the phone app currently works properly. It appears the 2019 models came out before the tech was fully baked and they are playing catch up at the moment. Honestly, you and I are about 3 years out before we need to renew. Nobody knows what the situation will be in 2022. It has to be said that Mercedes is moving everything to the HERE platform they own. Most of the services are backed by the HERE platform, which they together with BMW and Audi acquired from Nokia a couple of years ago. I have a feeling that the TomTom LiveTraffic is a temporary thing and that they are moving it to HERE traffic. It seems to be the only service that's currently provided by a third-party instead of HERE. I know HERE does have traffic data. I have the HERE map app on my iPhone. I'm not sure why they are not using it in the cars yet. So you might be right that LiveTraffic renewal is on hold for everybody at the moment, until whatever replaces it is up and running.
Last edited by superswiss; 10-15-2019 at 04:03 AM.
So glad i leased the car. In three years it will not be my problem.
Ah, yes, this is also featured in the Mercedes-Benz equation. You won't have the car by the time the 3-year TomTom service ends, anyways.
I've learned from several dealers that 97% of all MBs are leased anyways. I know Dallas area sports personalities (multi-millionnaires) who never buy -- but lease -- their MBs. The only people who buy MBs for the long haul are those who buy them as lease return CPOs. The Live Traffic feature has run it's course by this time.
The only people who buy MBs for the long haul are those who buy them as lease return CPOs. The Live Traffic feature has run it's course by this time.
Not exactly. I buy a new car for cash every 2 years or so and keep it about 6 years for a stable of 4 cars - MB, BMW, VW and Hyundai. Most of my neighbors buy new cars for the long haul as well. The neighbor's new Culinan may be an exception. He works for the dealer.
No TomTom Live Traffic Renewal after 3 Years...MB doesn't care EITHER
Originally Posted by whoover
Yes, it's down now. But the renewal disappeared quite a while ago, before they moved to the new portal. That is the entire issue -- no TomTom Live Traffic user can renew the service any more.
Mercedes is basically telling us; either Lease a car or F Off if you want Live Traffic Feeds after 3 years (nor do I want to use CarPlay each time). Just received a phone call from Mercedes because I Tweeted them about this BS and they have nothing in the pipeline for us. This is my third E Class and I was able to renew Live Traffic ea time via Sirus...crazy i can't renew via TomTom...they should, @ least give us that right.
what do you mean it came back? As in your 3 years was up and you lost it and it magically came back today? Can you go into the nav, options menu, then live traffic subscription and see what it says there?
folks here were saying their live traffic service was no longer showing because tomtom live traffic service itself ended, regardless of the live traffic subscription (mine expires 03/2020). anyhow, my live traffic has 'off line' for several weeks now. but its working again now.
I know there is a lot of discussion on Live Traffic but I have a simple (hopefully) question...I decided sometime ago that Live Traffic did not bring us any value on our 2017 E300. Therefore I cancelled my subscription. However once that happened, I get the message (below) every time I select the Nav function and can't seem to figure out how to disable this message so that it doesn't automatically appear every time I start the car. It says to go to the Owner Manual but could not find anything there either. Does anyone have a solution...Thanks!!!
I'm hopeful in the future that we can enable the live traffic. The car is capable of showing it so maybe some type of subscription service will work even after it expires from the original 3 years.
Looks like TomTom GO has been added to Apple Carplay, so it looks like that's the reason they no longer support Live Traffic. No indication on Android Auto support.
10-15-2019, 02:06 AM
No TomTom Live Traffic Renewal after 3 Years...MB doesn't care EITHER
