rraisley

BMW is a crazy car company! I began my new car search looking at a 3-Series Gran Turismo, a longer and higher version of the 3-Series sedan, with more leg room and storage than a 5-Series sedan. When I got close to ordering, I found out they quit making the Gran Turismo, and even the wagon (which was no bigger than the sedan, which I couldn't fit into). Apparently BMW purists HATE the Gran Turismos, but somehow love the Gran Coupes, which are pretty much the same. So, I considered stretching my budget, and going to a 6-Series Gran Turismo, but while counting my pennies trying to afford it, they quit making it too! Again, BMW aficionados HATED the Gran Turismo, despite all the incredible reviews, good looks and practicality of it. But WAIT, now you can get an 8-Series Gran Coupe, which looks the same to me as a Gran Turismo but is currently, somehow in favor. I'd just need to come up with well over $100k for a well equipped one! BMW seems to alternate between "fastbacks" and wagons being available for a couple years with certain models, then not available with those, but maybe for others, for almost every model in their range. 2020 is NOT the year to get one of these! Heck, for years, I never considered BMW, because they didn't have wagons or hatchbacks, then found they /did/ have them so considered them, and by then the /didn't/ anymore.

SteadyRover

Yes, I agree. Linked below are official MB USA numbers for 2019, where E-CLASS/CLS sold 40,113 units. C&D are big wagon fans, so looks like wishful thinking on their part, even though they did write they estimated "charitably". In my area wagon sightings are also infrequent, so I was puzzled to see four, yes four, 2019 new wagons on a local dealer lot last month.

https://media.mbusa.com/releases/mer...-december-2019

rraisley

Although they specifically said in the US, perhaps the figure was actually worldwide. That actually sounds reasonable, if as someone else said that US wagon sales have hovered around 1,100 per year.

Hundens

I don’t know why the number of E Class/AMG Wagon sales in the US should be a state secret. The 1100 number is not fresh and has probably moved up somewhat even in the face of weak E Class sales. But the 213 is quite an accomplishment and there is always a desire for the “new” so it makes sense for the number to be up. The fact that the dealers are more willing to stock some would seem to support that.

ua549

I'm in the Tampa Bay area and I've never seen a current model E class wagon. IIRC the last MB wagon I saw was when the dealer used one as a service vehicle. We have 6+ MB dealers in the metro area.

Spencer518

False: The 2020 US A6 Allroad comes standard with adaptive air suspension

https://www.audiusa.com/models/audi-a6-allroad

BenjaminKohl

Wagons tend to sell best in the Northeast. My local dealer, MB of White Plains (NY, just north of the city) has had upwards of 6 at a time, but they do stick around for a while. They had a really well equipped 2019 one that was on the lot for like 8 or 10 months. I really wanted to get it but wasn’t in the market for a car. Im pretty sure someone special ordered it and then decided not to fake it. It was ~$78,000, had the AMG wheels, ventilated/massaging leather, drivers assistance, advanced lighting, digital gauges, 3 zone climate, and special order only heated rear seats and rear seat airbag, such a unique and cool config. Was missing parking assistance though. I bet they sold it for a steep discount, because it was still around when the 2020s were arriving.

wagonsrock

Thanks for correcting me. Before I posted I built an A6 Allroad on the Audi website and could not find air suspension. Hopefully you are correct because raising ride height is a big part of having a mild off road capability.

BigBoy11

The 2020 A6 Allroad I test drove here in SC had air suspension and 2 off road programs. And all the information on the Audi website states the information regarding air suspension and drive modes including “off road”.

Spencer518

What was your impression of the A6 Allroad? My local dealer hasn't had one for test driving yet.

BigBoy11

I was very impressed overall. It definitely drove very similarly to the regular A6 sedan, has plenty of power, excellent ride and very roomy. We have an A8L so the general layout and controls are very similar and thus familiar to me which is a good thing. The Allroad doesn’t have that many options so it’s not as customizable as a MB product but it is very loaded in the Prestige model which makes it simpler. I am still very strongly considering it if the GLE 580 doesn’t work out for us.

Hundens

Interesting article on the All-Terrain in R&T a couple of weeks ago. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...d-wagon-trend/ I think it is reasonable to infer that the AMG Wagon will continue in its traditional, non-plasticized form. Which means for only 100K you can avoid the All-Terrain and get a traditional MB wagon. I stopped looking at Volvo wagons when they went plastic. The E Wagon was both a superior vehicle to the V70 and didn't have the plastic of the V70CC/XC. For me the fake wood on a Buick Roadmaster was less offensive than the fake off-road appearance trim of an all terrain.

bzcat

Just a couple of notes about wagons and Audi allroads I saw this in this thread.

1. Audi A4 allroad comes with steel suspension.

2. Audi A6 allroad comes with air suspension and offroad modes.

3. BMW actually sold more 3GT than 3 wagon in the US when both were offered. Mainly because 3GT had the choice of bigger 3.0 I6 engine and both RWD and AWD whereas wagon was stuck with 2.0 I4 and AWD only. And it is categorically untrue that 3GT "is basically the same thing" as 4 series Grand Coup. They are exactly opposite. 3GT maximize interior space and trunk space using the chassis of LWB 3 series sedan and at the expense of aesthetic (it looks like a pregnant whale) while 4 GC is all about aesthetic but at the expense of interior space (it is really cramped inside with very low roof line). 3GT is not coming back basically because it did not sell anywhere other than the US and BMW is done building US only models for the most part.

4. E series wagon sales is obviously not 8,000 a year like C&D claimed. But it is pretty substantial piece of business. It's not that hard to spot them in California and the Northeast where they are primarily sold. Of course I maybe a bit biased since I own a S212 but my guess is in California the ratio of E series sedan to wagon sales is about 10:1. In other parts of the country is probably 20:1 or higher. Someone mentioned around 1,100 a year before and that seems about right. Wagon owners also hold on to them longer on average so that further reduces the supply of the used one.

5. MBUSA is making a mistake cancelling the regular E wagon. They see Audi doing great business with allroads and think they can do the same. Audi doesn't have the large base of existing customer for the A6 wagon when they pull the plug 6 years ago. But E wagon is a Mercedes USA institution... MBUSA is picking a fight with their most loyal customers for what reason? Offer the All-Terrain for the new customers is fine... we don't care. The more they sell, the better odds wagon will survive. But that's not what they are doing... they are killing the wagon

fleuger99

I've been on the Allroad forum and three different buyers have complained of a second lag from when one steps on the accelerator and the car actually begins to move. All said this was super notable and frustrating.

I did not realize MB US was dropping the 'regular' wagon. I was going to lease one at the end of this year when my BMW X5 lease ends. I really dislike the MB 'Allroad' wagon, think its VERY bland and ugly. No way I'd be getting one of those. I guess I'll need to pick up a leftover 2019 wagon if I want one.

rraisley

Or get a new 2020 wagon, ordered the way you want it, like I did. I'm sure you can order them for a good while yet.

Hundens

Oh fine by me. I have a loaded to the gills 2019 wagon that I now probably will never have a need to replace. Rather like my V70R for which there is no replacement. Glad to be out of the market for as long as possible.

BigBoy11

Hmmm? There was absolutely no lag in the Audi Allroad I test drove twice. I have been reading on the Audi forums about this so-called lag issue but in my experience, it simply doesn’t exist. I have driven multiple Audi vehicles in the past year between testing and dealer provided loaners and throttle response was very good.

ua549

There was a lag during an A4 Allroad test drive when I tried maximum acceleration. The lag was very noticeable and repeatable - enough so that I discontinued the test drive. The lag was worse than an E300 in Eco mode.

BigBoy11

Sounds like you’re describing “turbo lag” on a 4 banger which isn’t unusual in any vehicle with turbo boosted small engines. Different than “throttle lag”.

ua549

No, it wasn't turbo lag because the rpms were already above 3500. IMO it was a combination of engine lag and transmission lag. It is quite similar in the E300 ECO mode when rpms are already elevated.

fleuger99

I've not dirven one myself as there are none in the Austin TX area yet. These are observations from owners who have purchased them. Here are a few quotes:

'A few more quick pictures and some initial thoughts after a few more brief drives.

Throttle lag is painful. After doing some research this morning I am not liking what I am reading. Turning off auto start/stop function appears to have little impact on the issue. Going into Sport mode improves the situation but I don't want to drive the car in sport mode full time. I will have to see how to overcome the issue. While making a left turn yesterday from a stop, it was concerning as I hit the accelerator to turn into an open space between cars and just sat for a bit before the acceleration kicked in and got me through the intersection. This isn't just a case of going from an S6 V8 to a different engine either. It reminds me of my wife's Range Rover which we got rid of after less than a couple years because the transmission and engine didn't seem to play well together.

Throttle lag aside, the car drives great. Smooth, fun and feels extremely solid. I will definitely be spending some more time in the car over the next 60 days as I head up into the mountains a few times which will be a 2 1/2 hour drive and my wife and I had a road trip planned for the end of February going from Denver through Santa Fe, Tucson, Scottsdale, Grand Canyon and then back to Denver.

I just hope the throttle lag doesn't completely destroy the ownership of this vehicle for me. My wife is already giving me a hard time about it.

And sorry about the one picture being the wrong orientation. I can't seem to figure out why that is happening when I upload it or how to correct the problem.'

'Now that I have had some time with the car, the throttle lag is definitely better. Still there but I'm not as concerned as I was initially. However, there was an odd occurrence while trying to accelerate from about 35 - 65 while merging onto a highway but it was one time and I haven't noticed it before so i'll definitely pay attention and see if the issue persists. It almost felt like the car decided not to accelerate once it hit a certain speed.

I have been driving in Auto mode mostly which definitely seems like more power is going towards the front wheels. I will be checking all drove modes next week however as I plan to head up into the mountains outside of Buena Vista, CO and it's about a 2 1/2 hour drive with the last 5 or 6 miles on dirt roads.'

fleuger99

You are correct, might have to order one as late as possible in order to get what I want before they only offer the Allroad wagon. When does MB typically end orders for a given model year? My X5 lease ends on Jan 14th 2021, so if I can order one in late Aug then I'll have both for a few months which isn't too bad.

ua549

More likely the cutoff will be around June 2020.

BigBoy11

I think if you read subsequent posts from the same guys, you will find they pretty much quit noticing any lag. Some conjecture is that the transmission in particular is one that “learns” much like the one in my Sprinter Van RV. The first few thousand miles resulted in the transmission adapting to my driving style and definitely improved over that time.

jrupp

Ha! I surprised my wife with a blue 5-series BMW wagon several years ago. She hated it. I was shocked, thought the car was gorgeous and the perfect blend of fun and practicality. My mistake was in thinking it was HER idea of fun and practicality. Good luck!