As no one sits on the roof, the roof height is irrelevant in determining whether a vehicle is a high station wagon or an SUV.

The height of the seats on the Outback, evidently a concern to you because of the height of your wife, is closer in height to the ground than the seat height of most SUVS.

One of the advantages of an SUV over a car or station wagon is the high seating position - something that is missing in the Outback.

I have a Ford Edge: the seat is much higher than my Mercedes - so much higher that when getting in my right leg goes in first. With my Mercedes I sit first in the seat and then swing my legs in. FYI, the height of the Edge is 68.3 inches (no roof rails) and I am 6'1' and without a step stool I cannot wash the roof of the Edge. I have no problem washing the roof of my Mercedes.

Finally the roof height of the Outback is actually 4 1/2 inches lower: 62 inches: the height of 66.44 inches is calculated with roof rails, an item that is not standard on most SUVS and therefore not included in the height. The roof rails are 4 1/2 inches. Without the roof rails the Outback is 62 inches high.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am finished with this discussion.

 

I've owned wagons my whole life and I went from a 2017 Outback to my now E63 wagon. I can tell you with 100% confidence the Outback is way closer to an SUV than a wagon.

 

True. But the Outback has higher ground clearance than ANY MB SUV, an indication of the step-up height, and in general, the height of the vehicle.
100% agree. Which is a reason I ended up with the Mercedes instead of a Ford Edge.
I'll go along with that. If obvious differences are apparent, additional discussion and facts won't help.

 

I have owned 3 Outbacks: All three were built on the Legacy - sedan architecture.

IMO, and as I posted, the Outback is CUV (Cross Over Utility Vehicle) and as Subaru advertises a "smart alternative to a SUV: the space of an SUV with the driving characteristics of a car".

 

They must have been old models. Per Wikipedia:
"In 1996, a variant of the Legacy with heightened suspension called the Legacy Outback was introduced to compete in the burgeoning sport-utility vehicle class and proved to be a sales success for Subaru. The Outback line was split into its own model in 2000, known as the Subaru Outback."
After 2000, you could buy a Legacy Wagon (which I considered at one point - a reasonably capable and roomy car, but couldn't get past the later model's variable transmissions), or the Outback, which is a MUCH higher vehicle, constructed quite differently, whatever you call it. While Net sources seem to indicate Subaru still makes the Legacy wagon, I don't see one on their web site, so they may have dropped it. Don't know when.

 

Me too: Subaru Outback, then Audi A4 Avant, then BMW 5-series wagon, and now E400S. The Subaru was much harder to wash by hand, because I could not easily reach the roof, and of course it drove like an SUV. A true wagon is a sedan with a long roof that drives like a sedan, but looks better!

The thing I find nuts about the MB All Road is that its a raised vehicle, with low profile wheels; its all for looks with no consideration of function. I guess that's what their market research tells them the US market wants. So sad.

 

I agree with that. With my difficulties in bending my back and entering a low car, I'd appreciate the car/wagon being an inch or two higher. The the lack of 18" wheels, for me, kind of kills the idea.

 

It was bad enough that MBUSA will not be importing the 2021 E Class sedans with the traditional “Luxury” trim, but I keep forgetting that our beloved E Class wagon is also history in the US, replaced by the All Terrain wagon. I know that some here will like this new All Terrain, but I feel very strongly that MBUSA should have brought the AT in, while keeping the basic, beautiful and elegant E450 wagon in the line up. MB will still make both, we just won’t be allowed a choice here, which really is disappointing.

Here are photos of what we are losing and what we are getting. To me, one is gorgeous, the other homely.

 

Totally agree! I love your choice of words to describe the All Terrain, 'homely'! LOL. I'm going to wait to see what the All Terrain look like in person and how they drive before making a decision but leaning towards a 2020 E450 Wagon at year's end when my X5 lease ends.

 

Better be sitting down when go to the Mercedes dealer: BMW's lease out quite well as compared to Mercedes! The monthly difference will be shocking!

 

I agree 100%. Send an email to MB telling them their views. I already did. Probably their marketing 'experts' will be tone death, but its worth letting them know that this will impact sales.

 

Yeah, I've already been to one of my local two MB dealers to test drive the E450 wagon and looked at some lease numbers. I also contacted a dealer 160 miles away in Dallas who had a car with pretty much everything I want except exterior color and they offered me what I thoght was a pretty good deal but its too early. Car was $73490 (premium and parking assistance pkg's, exterior lighting pkg and 18" wheels in luxury trim). There was also the usual fees (on the lighter side of some dealers) and they offered a discount of $8K on the car which was pretty good. With me putting $8K down including sales tax and fees the payment was around $960/month. In Texas one has to pay full sales tax of 6.5% on the sale price of the vehicle and it has to be paid up front. Comparatively, my X5 was $72K with also $8K down and my payment is $800.26 for 36 months.

These days SUV's are typically subsidized but no one is subsidizing wagon leases. My local dealer told me MB has no special programs for the wagon lease as they consider it a premium vehicle like an S-class or a GT where MF's are typically higher than any other MB vehicles.

 

Just FYI:

I am leasing a 2019 E450, MSRP $71,000 (about).

In New York we pay taxes on the sum of the lease payments, not the purchase price of the car. As you can see this is a huge tax savings. I was able to get 12% off of MSRP and mine was a special order. I ordered mine in September 2018 and took delivery on December 30, 2018. It was a brand new 2019.

Long story short, with no money down, at lease inception all I paid was first was first month and NY State motor vehicle fees (transfer of plates) $175. I rolled the bank fee, 2 years service, NY State taxes and acquisition fee into the monthly lease, $896.

Another point: Many people put money down to lower the monthly fee. This can be a HUGE mistake and here is why:

In the event your car is stolen or totaled, which has happened to me, any money you have put down is gone, PUFF into the ether: this is because your insurance company is only liable for the balance of the monthly payments plus the residual.

Let me illustrate: You roll everything into the lease and your monthly payment are $1,200 per month. The residual is $45,000. After 12 months your car is either stolen or totaled. Your insurance company is obligated to pay of 24 months @$1,200 plus $45,000. You have paid $14,400- 12 months at $1,200 per month.

Now instead you put down $8,000 which reduces your payments to $950 per month. Same things happens. Your insurance company now only pays off $950 per month for 24 months plus $45,000. You have paid $11,400 (12 months @$950 per month) plus $8,000 = $19,400.

The insurance company has saved $6,000 ($250 per month for 24 months) but none of that savings is passed onto you.

This is why I strongly advise anyone leasing to put everything into the lease with no money down.

Hope this helps.

 

I agree with most of what you said but keep in mind sales tax is roughly $4300, dealer fees with some options (window tint is a must in TX and paint protection film) is almost $2000 and first month's payment $950 we're already at $7250.

 

Put as much of that as you can into the lease: In New York, we always "roll the taxes" into the lease. Again if the car is stolen or totaled, your prepayment of taxes is gone.

At lease end you will be "upside down": in other words, the residual will be much higher than the value of your car, so at lease end you will turn the car in. Since you are turning the car in at lease end, does it make sense to spend money on paint protection?

Window tint is different as you get enjoyment out of it. But paint protection only benefits Mercedes Financial!

 

Anyone seen an updated order guide yet for the 2021 Allterrain?

 

I'm currently leasing a 2019 X5 MSport. It's a very nice vehicle but my first SUV, BMW calls it a SAV. I like the utility but have decided I'm just not a SUV person. I hope to find a nice pre-owned CPO E450 wagon when my lease is up. I'll search nationwide as I won't have a trade. I'm hoping to find a Luxury model with the acoustic package. Prefer white exterior. Anyone have an idea how many 2019 E450 wagons were sold in the US?

 

You mean since June 21st?

 

I agree 100%. I'm leasing an X5 with an MSRP of $76000. I special ordered and gave the dealer a $1000 deposit. At delivery I rolled all taxes, fees, registration and a 3 year wheel and tire policy into the lease. Capitalized cost was reduced by a discount of $8500, a loyalty rebate of $1500 and a lease rebate of $1500. I also received a check from BMW for $1000 for being a BMWCCA member. I wrote a check for $89 to equal my first monthly lease payment of $1089.

 

Yes, since I posted the one from June 19th.

 

Maybe check with the Internet sales manager again. My local dealer is using that same one you posted.

 

Okay, thanks. Probably no updates yet. August is usually the month they begin production of the next model year, one would think if they're producing them they'd have communicated pricing.

 

Yeah, there were quite a few things still not priced and some indicating future availability. I think everything is still being impacted by Covid-19.

 

I'm shocked that Mercedes wouldn't just offer the basic E450 wagon and the All-Terrain version here in the U.S. Very silly decision even if those off-road styled wagons are so popular. Luxury is about choice, not being forced into it. Same person or group is likely behind the decision to NOT offer the AMG package on the GLS450 or offer the GLC63 S on the regular SUV body instead of just on the "Coupe" model. Just plain dumb from the outside looking in.

M

 

My E400 Wagon lease is up in December. Now I am wondering, should I wait for the 2021 All-terrain or get the 2020 E450?

My dealer is offering $11K off MSRP for the 2020 E450 wagon, but I have to lease it now.