Frank Rizzo

With the onset of Covid, I hardly drive the E43 anymore since I work from home. We have two other cars and Ive been less than enthused about the car overall, primarily because of the constant tech glitches and poor ride from the 20" wheels....so it got me thinking...I wonder what it would take to buy out the lease. If close, the extra $1k/mo could just pile into savings or my IRA...I have about 13 months left.

So I check online with MBFS, Lease buyout is ~$47k. Noted. Then I drive to the local CarMax and get a purchase quote....they offer $52K !!!!!!!!!!! BOOM!
Done!!!! Pay it off and I'll Uber home right now! sweet!

Not so fast you plebeian MBFS customer, we don't let go of customers that easy!

The F&I guy at Carmax calls MBFS to verify the payoff. I have to speak to the customer service representative to verify it is OK to release my payoff info to Carmax, no problem. He writes down payoff = $57,500k !!!!!
WTF??
I ask to speak to the representative, and ask what is the discrepancy.
She explains that the payoff of the car is ~$47k PLUS my $10,500 Security Deposit...to anyone other than the owner...hence the $57,500. I ask why this is, because it is highly unusual. Why not just payoff the car and mail my deposit back to me just like you would do at the end of the Lease term? She explains that "this is the way MBFS does it". No negotiating or discussion what so ever. It makes no sense and no skin off MBFS's back to handle it the "normal" way. The Carmax guy confirmed he has lots of trouble with MBFS on buyouts in this area...that is why he called.

What a crock of B.S. Now I'll have to pay off the car myself, wait for the title to arrive, then trade it in. Definitely a ploy to keep you in a MBZ in my opinion. Aint gonna work for me.

Such a bad taste in my mouth....grrr.....I was thinking - what it you got hammered by covid and were not working and financially strapped? You are leasing your A220 and your payoff is just under the buyout. Your screwed unless you have the extra cash sitting around to buy out the car with the Sec. Deposit because MBFS would rather see you go down with the lease then let you our like a normal financial company. What a crappy way to do business.

jeez.

superswiss

Wait, I think there is a misunderstanding on your part. So the real buyout of your car is $57.5k from what I can see. If Carmax buys it out, you will then eventually get a check from MBFS for the $10.5k in security deposits you gave them. The $47k buyout that you saw online is just the difference between the $57.5k and the $10.5k you already gave them. If you buy it out yourself, you won't get your security deposits back. MBFS will just count it towards the buyout, so they don't have to unnecessarily cut a check to you. I'm assuming this car was somewhere north of $70k, so with a $1k monthly payment you haven't paid the principal down enough for the buyout to only be $47k. That doesn't add up. The $47k is just what you still owe on top of the $10.5k if you decide to buy this car out. It's not surprising that the car is worth less than what you owe at this point into your lease. That's pretty normal.

EDIT: Remember there is also most likely sales tax in your buyout. In most states you have to pay sales tax on the buyout, because with the lease you are only paying sales tax on the monthly lease payment. Carmax wouldn't have to pay the sales tax, though, but if you buy it out yourself you do, so there is some important detail missing from what you posted now that I think about it.

JTK44

Wow:

Are you sure the $10,500 was a security deposit and not a "cap cost reduction" aka down payment.

After a great deal of negotiating I was able to get my monthly payment down to $896 a month on my 2019 E450 with a MSRP of $70,205. The base price, before any options, was $59,950.

The MSRP, before any options on the 2019 E53 was $72,550 and with the same extra equipment that is on my car, $78,855.

If your lease payment is about $1,000 a month I suspect that the $10,500 was not a refundable security deposit but a "cap cost reduction" aka down payment: in other words without that $10,500 your monthly payments would have been much, much higher, perhaps $300 a month higher. $1000K a month, without a down payment is too cheap.

The residual on my car is $41,939: However that residual is calculated on me making 36 payments of $896 per month. If I decide to end my lease early and turn in the car I still owe the balance of the lease payments. If I want to buy the car I will have to pay $41.939 plus the balance of the lease payments.

In other words If I end my lease after 24 months and want to turn in the car, I still must make the final 12 payments.

In your case your buyout aka residual is $47K. With a residual of 59% that corresponds to a MSRP of $79,661. This is more or less what I calculated above and confirms to me that your monthly payment of $1000 must have included the $10,500 as a "cap cost reduction" and not a refundable security deposit. Without that cap cost reduction your payments would have been substantially higher.

This is very easy to check: Look at your lease and see how the $10,500 was treated.

According to CAR MAX your car today is worth $52,000. In a year from now the residual is $47,000. I think your car over the next year will depreciate more than $5,000. If it does then it will be worth less than the residual and you will be "up side down" on the lease - where the buy back is more than the value of the car. This is usually the way all leases work and why why over 90% of cars on lease at the end of the lease are turned back in.

Today you could buy the car for $47,000 plus tax: assume 7% tax that comes to $50,290 plus 13 months payment on the lease, another $13,000 for a total of $63,290 and then sell it to CAR MAX for $52,000 and your out of pocket would be $11,000.

If you keep the car your out of pocket will be 13 months at $1K per month, $13,000.

Buying your car and selling it to CAR MAX vs. keeping it would be a savings of $2,000. But of course you would not have use of the car for the next 13 months.

$2,000 extra to drive an E43 for 13 months sounds like a bargain to m.

Personally for me, too much work to save $2,000.

Hopes this helps.

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JTK44

I just thought of something:

Assume I am wrong and the $10,500 is as you wrote a refundable security deposit - which I do not think it is.

Then you buy the car for $47,000 plus tax, total of $52,290 plus 13 months payment of $1000 per month total of $63,290 and sell it to CAR MAR for $52,000 total out of pocket $11,000.

Then MB Financial refunds your deposit of $10,500 so your out of pocket is only $500.

Check your lease and let us know what the $10,500 is: down payment or refundable security deposit.

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crothberg

2 observations from recent experiences.

1. Although they charge a fee, unlike in the past, mbfs does not obtain a new title on your behalf - you’re on your own (not at all a ‘first class finish’). And because of sales tax (which they collect) one cannot complete the title transaction on line (in my state for example). This can create a long time delay. That, in turn, may affect the offer you have from a third party.

2. While leasing companies must sell you the car at your contracted price, they don’t have to sell to a third party at that price. Many are exploiting the current market accordingly. That may be what you’re experiencing.

one reason we lease is to insulate ourselves from the downside risk of low valuation at trade in. I suppose the flip side is understandable - we are somewhat isolated from the upside as well.

Frank Rizzo

It is 100% a "refundable security deposit" - it says so on the Lease paperwork.

MBFS allows multiple security deposits (MSD's) - I put down 10 deposits, these lower your payments as explained here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/automotiv...-deposits.html

Also - the (helpful) CarMax guy told me that he personally would not engage in the transaction either unless I paid off the car first and came to them with title in had. Why? Because if I fronted them the $10.5k and signed the car over, I would also sign their paperwork that says that there is nothing due on the car and would be reliant on their goodwill to refund me my deposit - but they would have no legal pressure to do so.

FWIW - sales tax is paid by the purchaser at the time of (re)registration at the Calif. DMV.

I like crothberg's description - not at all a "first class finish" - to say the least. You hit the nail on the head also (great post by the way)...I now recall - the MBFS rep did say something along the lines of we do not have to see the car to anyone other than the purchaser at the residual value.

...

JTK44

OK now I understand. You took advantage of the lower MF but making a deposit equal to 10 monthly payments. This is available in certain states, NJ for example but not NY where I live and lease.

I have bought a car at the end of the lease. It was a Porsche Boxster with only 5,200 miles.

The procedure was quite straight forward: I contacted Porsche Financial, they confirmed the buy back price plus the sales tax due. I sent them a check and about 6 weeks later I got a title in my name, receipt for payment of sales tax. I then registered the car in my name.

I think you would be in exactly the same position: You advise MB Financial of your intention to buy the car now, they will confirm the buy back price, sales tax and you will send them your check for that amount plus the amount due under the lease - remaining months times the monthly payment.

In probably 6 to 8 weeks you will receive a title in your name and a return of your deposit. At that point you can transfer the title to Car Max.

The only downside is that the offer by Car Max, $52,000 will be less in 2 months.

But even if the offer is reduced by $4,000 that is much cheaper than to continue to pay the monthly payment on a car you are not driving.


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superswiss

Yes, I'm fully aware of the MSDs. I did that once with BMW. I also bought out a lease once in the past. In California you are going to pay taxes on the buyout, unless you manage to transfer the title within a 10 day window. There's a special ownership/title transfer you have to do. But if you miss the 10 days, which is very likely because it takes time to get the title, you will pay sales taxes on the buyout and then whoever ultimately buys your car has to pay sales taxes again. Trust me on this. Buying out the car yourself in Cali only makes sense if you plan to keep it yourself or you have a buyer lined up already and manage to do the transfer in the 10 day window, but you are at the mercy of getting the title to your car in time.

As for the security deposits, what I'm saying is that even though they are refundable, when you buyout the car MBFS will just keep them and you only owe the difference between the buyout amount and the security deposits. As I said, I did a lease buyout once, and the security deposit I had already payed just went towards the buyout, so what I still had to pay was buyout amount + sales tax + fees - security deposit. That's how it works.

superswiss

Also, just wanted to add, you may wanna get the car appraised at an MB dealerships instead. Many are owned by larger networks such as Sonic, and their used car departments buy cars even if you don't trade it in for a new one. They are also better prepared to deal with MBFS. For example I had my previous car, an Audi, appraised by the Audi dealership I originally bought it from and the used car department at my MB dealership all independently of buying my new car. Both made me decent offers with the Audi dealership making me a higher offer, but I ultimately found a private buyer. I fully owned that car with title in my hands, though, so no hassle of dealing with a financing company.

Frank Rizzo

This is interesting, thanks. Im only doubtful because CarMax was within a couple of grand (lower) than the KBB/Blackbook trade in value - not $10k. Also in Cali, I don't think Security Deposits can be used without your consent.

Good idea about the dealer. I traded my Boss's G55 into the local dealer a couple of years ago....

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superswiss

You are giving consent by doing the buyout. It doesn't make much sense for you to pay the full buyout and then them cutting you a check back for the MSDs. It's like when you order a car and give the dealer a deposit to guarantee your order. In Cali they are also refundable by law, but when the car arrives they don't cut you a check for the deposit, they just subtract it from the cost of the car and you pay the remainder. That's generally how deposits work. You only get them back if you don't end up buying the product.

Frank Rizzo

Following up to say that superswiss was 100% correct. Thanks man.
After calls to MBFS, I was able to get someone to actually help/explain. They apply the deposit to the buy out instead of cutting a check. Makes sense now.

I dont understand why they could not give that explanation from the get go instead of obfuscation.
nutso service.
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JTK44

Good to hear.

As per my post #7, does it not make sense for you to buy the car, avoid the sales tax and sell it to CarMax with 10 days?