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Congratulations Beechcamp. Nice looking ride. With that many wagons you should join our Facebook group Mercedes Benz E-Wagons, devoted, as you can guess, exclusively to E-Wagons.
I did it – I traded my 2017 E300 in for a CPO 2018 E400 Wagon, P3, Cavansite Blue Metallic, Designo Interior.
I love it, as I knew I would. It's my 4th M-B Wagon, so I know exactly what to expect.
Welcome 'back' to the long roof world; you are one ahead of me, we are just on our third M-B wagon!
Beautiful color and option combination! Long roofs rule! Enjoy the miles and the smiles!
I bought my wagon around a month back, and i guess looks-wise, is an exact replica of Longroof45’s wagon. Polar white, night package with AMG 19” wheels and Pano roof etc.
I switched my factory run-flats to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 tires, in the standard factory size - 245/45/19. The ride, the handling and the grip are just hugely better than the run-flats. However, not being run-flats, I need a spare, which leads to my question.
Can the pre-2021 19” front wheels (which are available to be purchased), fit the 2021-2022 wagons ? Seems like there are some slight differences in the specs, with the pre-21 versions having a 19x8 wheel with a 43mm offset, while the 21-22 versions have a 19x8 and 38mm offset. The slight offset difference does not matter to me, especially since it is for a spare, but other than that, would the pre-21 wheel fit directly into the 21-22 cars ? TIA.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Roweraay
I bought my wagon around a month back, and i guess looks-wise, is an exact replica of Longroof45’s wagon. Polar white, night package with AMG 19” wheels and Pano roof etc.
I switched my factory run-flats to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 tires, in the standard factory size - 245/45/19. The ride, the handling and the grip are just hugely better than the run-flats. However, not being run-flats, I need a spare, which leads to my question.
.
You can now join the list of owners with the larger 19" AMG wheels who are/were dissatisfied with the ride quality of RF. It is not the RF, but the bigger wheels and lower profile of the tires that causes the harsh ride.
I have the standard 18" wheels and the ride with Pirelli P7 Centuratos RF is sublime.
You can now join the list of owners with the larger 19" AMG wheels who are/were dissatisfied with the ride quality of RF. It is not the RF, but the bigger wheels and lower profile of the tires that causes the harsh ride.
I have the standard 18" wheels and the ride with Pirelli P7 Centuratos RF is sublime.
JTK44, I agree that MB should have offered an 18” option, but in the 2021-2022 450 models, there’s no 18” option at all, which is pretty sad. It is either 19” or a 20”.
Having said that, the run-flat tires, by design, have to be stiff enough to hold their shape, even with zero air pressure in the tire, which in turn leads to lousy and stiff ride quality, poor handling, along with inordinately heavy tires that slow down the vehicle. I switched to the Ultra-high-performance All Season (UHPAS) Michelin Pilot Sport tires (I believe they come as standard on the Corvettes too), and the sheer grip, the softer ride and the lightness of the tires are just amazingly different from the factory run-flats, and literally transformed the car from a ride and handling perspective ! Based on my prior experience in my other cars, these UHPAS Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires work extraordinarily well in the dry, the wet and also in light snowy conditions.
IMHO, the run-flats are a cop-out from the manufacturers, who don’t want to provide a spare tire or design a space within the vehicle to accommodate a spare.
PS: My car’s still young with barely 1300 miles on it, and I switched to the Michelins right after the 1000 mile break-in period. The improvements were drastic !
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Roweraay
JTK44, I agree that MB should have offered an 18” option, but in the 2021-2022 450 models, there’s no 18” option at all, which is pretty sad. It is either 19” or a 20”.
Having said that, the run-flat tires, by design, have to be stiff enough to hold their shape, even with zero air pressure in the tire, which in turn leads to lousy and stiff ride quality, poor handling, along with inordinately heavy tires that slow down the vehicle. I switched to the Ultra-high-performance A/S (UHPAS) Michelin Pilot Sport tires (I believe they come as standard on the Corvettes too), and the sheer grip, the softer ride and the lightness of the tires are just amazingly different from the factory run-flats, and literally transformed the car from a ride and handling perspective ! Based on my prior experience in my other cars, these UHPAS Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires work extraordinarily well in the dry, the wet and also in light snowy conditions.
IMHO, the run-flats are a cop-out from the manufacturers, who don’t want to provide a spare tire or design a space within the vehicle to accommodate a spare.
You are correct about the 18" wheel not being an option. My bad and I apologize. Do not understand why. While the wagon is definitely not an "off roader" one would think as compared to the sedan it would be more than just an interstate cruiser.
I spent several years in Columbus back in the late '60's and even back then snow was not prevalent. Today with climate change even less so, so with the Pilot Sport you should do well - unless you get temps in the teens at which point the tire composition will get too stiff and their will be a loss of traction, even on dry roads. Here in the northeast with the Pilot Sport you would need a dedicated set of winter tires.
RF are in vogue for several reasons:
Weight savings: the weight of a spare, jack and tools is far greater than the weight of 4 RF tire. Less weight means better CAFE
Trunk space: without a spare there is more trunk space
Dirty hands: unlike years ago where changing a tire was normal, today's generation thinks of a car as a computer: they do not know how they work, they just work. People today have no idea how to change a tire and really do not want to. People today are far more cautious and changing a tire on a deserted unlight road is something that is just not done. RF solve that problem. When I went to school I rode my bike several miles. My children waited at the bus stop and played with their friends until the bus came. Everyone walked, without their parents to the stop and if the bus did not come, walked to school. Today at the same bus stop parents wait with their children until the bus comes and wait for their children at the bus stop. They do not permit their children to be alone even for a minute. Same neighborhood with zero crime - but people are more afraid - which with 24 news showing crime every minute of the day is what you would expect.
Engineers work with tire manufacturers to tune their suspensions to RF.
But having said all that, non RF ride better than RF, and the larger the wheel, the more pronounced the difference will be.
You are correct about the 18" wheel not being an option. My bad and I apologize. Do not understand why. While the wagon is definitely not an "off roader" one would think as compared to the sedan it would be more than just an interstate cruiser.
I spent several years in Columbus back in the late '60's and even back then snow was not prevalent. Today with climate change even less so, so with the Pilot Sport you should do well - unless you get temps in the teens at which point the tire composition will get too stiff and their will be a loss of traction, even on dry roads. Here in the northeast with the Pilot Sport you would need a dedicated set of winter tires.
RF are in vogue for several reasons:
Weight savings: the weight of a spare, jack and tools is far greater than the weight of 4 RF tire. Less weight means better CAFE
Trunk space: without a spare there is more trunk space
Dirty hands: unlike years ago where changing a tire was normal, today's generation thinks of a car as a computer: they do not know how they work, they just work. People today have no idea how to change a tire and really do not want to. People today are far more cautious and changing a tire on a deserted unlight road is something that is just not done. RF solve that problem. When I went to school I rode my bike several miles. My children waited at the bus stop and played with their friends until the bus came. Everyone walked, without their parents to the stop and if the bus did not come, walked to school. Today at the same bus stop parents wait with their children until the bus comes and wait for their children at the bus stop. They do not permit their children to be alone even for a minute. Same neighborhood with zero crime - but people are more afraid - which with 24 news showing crime every minute of the day is what you would expect.
Engineers work with tire manufacturers to tune their suspensions to RF.
But having said all that, non RF ride better than RF, and the larger the wheel, the more pronounced the difference will be.
Great post. Additionally, RFTs are a cost savings to car makers, in other words an area for them to chintz and cheap out the car even further.
I switched my factory run-flats to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 tires, in the standard factory size - 245/45/19. The ride, the handling and the grip are just hugely better than the run-flats. However, not being run-flats, I need a spare, which leads to my question.
Can the pre-2021 19” front wheels (which are available to be purchased), fit the 2021-2022 wagons ? Seems like there are some slight differences in the specs, with the pre-21 versions having a 19x8 wheel with a 43mm offset, while the 21-22 versions have a 19x8 and 38mm offset. The slight offset difference does not matter to me, especially since it is for a spare, but other than that, would the pre-21 wheel fit directly into the 21-22 cars ? TIA.
Looking forward to doing the same in the next couple months. TBH, ride with the optional 20" RFT is much better than I expected...would not change them, but they are summer tires and I need some cold weather capability.
I got a factory mini-spare, but any of the 19" W213 wheels should work as a spare. The AT has more aggressive offsets for wider track and to fill up the extended wheel arches, but the front brakes are the same size across all current non-AMG models, including those with 18s as standard.
Great post. Additionally, RFTs are a cost savings to car makers, in other words an area for them to chintz and cheap out the car even further.
That's the primary reason. RFTs are more expensive than conventional tires, but reducing parts count by eliminating a wheel, tire, jack, tools, bag, and trunk pieces to secure them all...or alternatively an inflator with sealant...is a significant savings. And the additional space allows for batteries for application of the mild-hybrid system.
2018 E400 Wagon, P3, Cavansite Blue Metallic, Designo Interior
Just a quick note on how impressed I am with gas the mileage of my new (to me) 2018 E400 Wagon v. the (wonderful) 2017 E300 I traded for it. Around town, I’m getting ~22 miles per gallon with my E400 while my E300 got ~23 mpg, essentially the same. Just took a several hundred mile highway trip and averaged ~32 miles per gallon, which also was similar to the E300. Bigger engine and better performance and similar gas mileage = a win for me! I had a 2014 E350 Wagon and the best I could get with that on the highway was around 24 mpg!
Just a quick note on how impressed I am with gas the mileage of my new (to me) 2018 E400 Wagon v. the (wonderful) 2017 E300 I traded for it. Around town, I’m getting ~22 miles per gallon with my E400 while my E300 got ~23 mpg, essentially the same. Just took a several hundred mile highway trip and averaged ~32 miles per gallon, which also was similar to the E300. Bigger engine and better performance and similar gas mileage = a win for me! I had a 2014 E350 Wagon and the best I could get with that on the highway was around 24 mpg!
I concur on the gas mileage, even though mine is the 2022 E450. In a slightly over 200mile trip (mostly highway but some city/suburban mixed in and highway speeds significantly above 70mph ), I got 32.3mpg, and the mileage was still inching upward at the end of the trip.
1st time I took my 2017 E400 on a trip and notice the mileage I was in shock - Shenandoah Valley to Philly - about 285 miles averaged 33.1mpg and wasn't even using ECO mode. For years did the trip in wife's 2010 ML350 and was lucky to 20 mpg. Difference in gallons between the 2 cars round trip about 11 to 13 gallons less in the wagon. We make this trip about 7 to 10 time a year so while the savings aren't going to change my life it's still over $400.00
And if any of you are overtly cavalier about $400 you could always send it to me! Haha
Quick Question to the Tech Savvy Wagoneers:
Why can't I lock the vehicle from the MB App?
It says: Your car is un-locked:
BUT it won't help you lock it..
Is this a Pay to Play Service, or included in the basic MB app?
(Car is in the garage, we are leaving town for a quick vacation and I already hid the keys in a secret place because we have contractors working in the house while we are
gone. Can't lock the car via the app, but the MB Service Advisor said to always lock the car to prevent the battery discharging.)
Quick Question to the Tech Savvy Wagoneers:
Why can't I lock the vehicle from the MB App?
It says: Your car is un-locked:
BUT it won't help you lock it..
Is this a Pay to Play Service, or included in the basic MB app?
(Car is in the garage, we are leaving town for a quick vacation and I already hid the keys in a secret place because we have contractors working in the house while we are
gone. Can't lock the car via the app, but the MB Service Advisor said to always lock the car to prevent the battery discharging.)
Instead of “vehicle status”, go to “Lock Status” and slide the button at the bottom, from “Unlock” to “Lock”
My car hit 5000 miles, and I got the first service done (not required by Mercedes). I splurged a bit and got the Service B done, and additionally changed the Engine air filter too. In hindsight, totally unnecessary, and in the future will stick to Mercedes’ own service recommendations.
That's the primary reason. RFTs are more expensive than conventional tires, but reducing parts count by eliminating a wheel, tire, jack, tools, bag, and trunk pieces to secure them all...or alternatively an inflator with sealant...is a significant savings. And the additional space allows for batteries for application of the mild-hybrid system.
Going by Tirerack prices, if we go with a high-end Ultra-high performance All-Season (non-RFT) tire like the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4, the price is very comparable to a high-end RFT tire. The automakers are saving a ton by going with RFT tires and eliminating all of the equipment that’s needed with a conventional tire.
Also remember, that when one’s on a 1800 mile round trip (like I will be doing in another day or so), if there’s a flat on an RFT tire, the trip is interrupted anyway. Since all the RFT tire does is to allow us to crawl along at 50mph for a MAX of 50 miles (10-15 miles if the car is loaded). And where’d you get a replacement RFT tire, in the middle of a trip ? Also, even in a high-end non-RFT tire (all of whom have self-sealing capabilities in case something like a nail or a screw penetrates through), the pressure loss is very, very gradual. It would start showing loss of pressure only in around 36-48 hours and even then, if pumped back up to normal pressure, it will last another 36-48 hours, due to the tire’s built-in self-sealing capability. A catastrophic failure is very, very rare, and affects the RFT just like the non-RFT…..so what’s the gain with the RFT ?
IMHO, RFTs are the worst of all worlds. They are heavy, clunky, consumes more fuel due to their extra rotational weight, and rides terribly. And at the end of the day, adds absolutely nothing to a road-trip over a high-end conventional tire with self-sealing ability built-in. It just allows the automakers to get lazy with a car’s design, and allow them to pad their profits at the expense of the buyer.
I replaced the Goodyear F1 summer run-flat tires with a set of Michelin A/S 4 last week. Slight improvement in noise and ride comfort...like the difference between 'Sport' and 'Comfort'...and no noticeable change in handling or fuel consumption. Surprisingly the biggest difference was steering...a bit more weight and feel was unexpected but welcome. Run-flats have indeed come a long way; I was happy with the Goodyears and would not have changed them but for the need to have some snow capability.
There are no all-season run-flats in the OEM 20" size to do a direct price comparison, but the A/S 4 is $1,200 a set at the moment, and the inferior OEM Goodyear and Pirelli summer run-flats are each ~$1,875 a set.
There are no all-season run-flats in the OEM 20" size to do a direct price comparison, but the A/S 4 is $1,200 a set at the moment, and the inferior OEM Goodyear and Pirelli summer run-flats are each ~$1,875 a set.
That price difference can be attributed to the low volume factor of RF tires (relative to a high-end XL-rated UHPAS tire) and obviously has nothing to do with any kind of inherent quality or technology advantages.
The A/S 4s are sold in massively higher volumes, which enable them to spread the cost over a larger base, and thus keep the prices relatively under control, and yet ensure their targeted margins. The RFs don’t sell as many, and thus the per unit manufacturing costs are much higher, which means the consumer prices need to be higher.
I did the first leg of my trip to Maine (900+ miles) and the car did the journey wonderfully. The Michelin Pilot A/S 4 tires, are well matched to the vehicle !
2018 E400 Wagon, P3, Cavansite Blue Metallic, Designo Interior
If you took that ride to Maine today, you seriously tested your wagon's capabilities! With high winds (gusts to 60mph+), torrential rain and snow (in some places), what a crappy travel day!
09-27-2022, 01:25 PM
), I got 32.3mpg, and the mileage was still inching upward at the end of the trip.
)
