Streamliner

Over recent years, MB has really screwed up some “premium” audio systems. My 2019 SL450–and EVERY 2013-2020 SL—has a truly horrible audio system, whether it be the standard Harman-Kardon or the very expensive Bang & Olufsen optional system. If you go to the current GLE V167 forum, you will read horror stories about amazingly crummy audio systems. How can a 100+ year old, world class builder of luxury vehicles STILL screw up something like a car radio?

Anyway, I was wondering what you folks with the current All Terrain wagons think of the audio systems in your vehicles. What’s it like listening to classical, jazz or rock music at low to moderate volume? The audio in our 2019 E450 Wagon is very nice, just wondering if MB has managed to mess it up with the AT. I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts, thanks.

chassis

Because, taken as a whole, Mercedes-Benz is a crummy company with a crummy brand.

Hundens

I think crummy is an incorrect overstatement, but I admit I don't understand the $4.500 upgraded sound system. I mean really. Its only an upgrade not like buying an S class.

Streamliner

Well you may have a point. Check this out:
MB up 1%. BMW up 20%. Genesis up 202%!

e55phil

Anyway, I was wondering what you folks with the current All Terrain wagons think of the audio systems in your vehicles. What’s it like listening to classical, jazz or rock music at low to moderate volume? The audio in our 2019 E450 Wagon is very nice, just wondering if MB has managed to mess it up with the AT. I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts, thanks.[/QUOTE]

my last car was a 2015 s class. The sound system was better. My AT sound system is not as good at low volume as it is if you turn it up. I must have missed the chance to order a better sound system when I order the car. If I had realized I would have done so.

having said that I can live with it as is as it is acceptable

now I wonder if I can upgrade my radio?

Lanzz

Phil, I don't think the higher end Burmester 3D system is on option in the AT, or even in the current E class. (It used to be - not sure what happened - probably a low take-rate in the E, given the ~$4K price tag.) To your point, I am very happy with the Burmester sound in the E sedan and E wagon - was less impressed with it in my 2020 GLE - it seemed less robust and needed to be played at much higher volume to get the same "punch" as the E-sedan/wagon.)

e55phil

[QUOTE=Streamliner;8488958]Well you may have a point. Check this out:
MB up 1%. BMW up 20%. Genesis up 202%!


Mr. Streamliner, I know you are a senior statesmen on this forum and I hesitate to disagree with you however I will say that these percentages increased sales are misleading.

Some of the brands mentioned here are not comparable brands. For instance Buick has enjoyed an increase in volume but I wonder how many Mercedes buyers would opt for a Buick over Mercedes? This is not to suggest that a Buick is not a good car, my point is that the universe of potential buyers for a Buick is greater than the universe of potential buyers for Mercedes.

For those cars where there were less than 10,000 cars sold I'm not sure that is comparable either.

However the comparison to BMW, Volvo, Porsche and Lexus should be worrisome to Mercedes.

I don't know what to think about Genesis.

I do know that I'm wondering if my next car will be a Mercedes even though I've been loyal to the brand for 30 years

e55phil

that explains how I missed it! I wonder if the speakers can be upgraded? I wonder if the e63 has a better radio?

Streamliner

[QUOTE=e55phil;8489214]Actually, I’m right there with you and agree with your comments. Most of the info listed there is meaningless to our discussions, but like you, I think a 1% increase for MB is truly lackluster, compared to their immediate rivals like BMW. I guess Genesis couldn’t help but have a huge increase, as it is still in its “childhood” as far as a brand goes. MB has continued to make mistakes and their loyal customers, like you and me are starting to at least look at other brands. I hope they get their act together again soon.

chassis

BMW spanked MB in 2021. First time in several years. BMW is on a roll now.

Genesis is breathing down MB's and BMW's necks. BMW seems to have what it takes to compete. MB, not so much.

Denial and downplaying reality by fanboiz should be watched for and guarded against. MB is swirling the drain.

Streamliner

Well, I don’t think it’s quite that bad yet, but if they don’t get back on track, they will lose customers, who will probably never return.

Wig

Chassis: what is it that MB are doing so badly, in your opinion? I admit I am thinking about switching to BMW or Genesis next time, the main reason being quality problems with my current vehicles....

Hundens

Its a very competitive industry these days. But based on my 12 MB 400, my 19 MB 450, and my limited experience with the EQS, I think the product is fine, the problem is with the dealers. MBUSA does not do an effective job of managing the network, either thru incentives or punishments. In the very old days, the manufacturers had "dealers" as Tesla does today. "The dealer experience" is a cliche for bad overpriced service, a lack of attention, and a miserable time bargaining, not to mention stale donuts and poor coffee. "Ah, I sold you a $125,000 car and now I am going to charge you for a loaner while my $200 a hour mechanic screws up your car." Give me a break.

Streamliner

Can I get in on this?

1. Transmissions across multiple models, have harsh shifting issues. Of course, this is not every vehicle, but for those who have the problem, it is significant and MB either does not know how to fix it or will not fix it.
2. Audio systems in several models are not nearly what they should be in vehicles at the various price points. The folks in the R231 SL forums and the V167 GLE forums are very unhappy with them. You would think that by now, MB would get audio systems right.
3. Poor marketing, where several desirable versions of vehicles are available in Europe, Canada, Mexico and other places, but not here. The standard, E Class Luxury Trim Wagon is a great example. You can get it in Germany and in Mexico, but not in the USA.
4. Poor marketing, where unwanted equipment is shoved down the customer's throat, if they want some basic equipment. A great example was the now retired GLK. If you wanted the garage door opener, you had to order a package that included the Panorama Roof. Can you even believe that? There are many other, similar examples in the current line up.
5. NO SPARES and NO GOOD PLACE TO PUT ONE! Imagine, a vehicle like the All Terrain, with NO SPARE! People in the USA often take long drives to National Parks, etc. Can you imagine hitting a road hazard while visiting Mt. Rushmore, shredding your tire, with no spare? Try finding a new tire away from a metro area. Good luck! Every vehicle, with the possible exception of sports cars, should have a spare as standard equipment. Or, a spare should at least be optional and it should be properly housed, out of sight.
6. AMG overload! Not everyone wants to drive a more aggressive looking or performing vehicle. Many, such as myself, much prefer more stately, elegant vehicles, but MB seems to be hellbent on making almost every model an AMG model, at least in the looks department. Give me the traditional, little star, on TOP of the hood, where it belongs.

That's enough for now.

Hundens

"5. NO SPARES and NO GOOD PLACE TO PUT ONE! Imagine, a vehicle like the All Terrain, with NO SPARE! People in the USA often take long drives to National Parks, etc. Can you imagine hitting a road hazard while visiting Mt. Rushmore, shredding your tire, with no spare? Try finding a new tire away from a metro area. Good luck! Every vehicle, with the possible exception of sports cars, should have a spare as standard equipment. Or, a spare should at least be optional and it should be properly housed, out of sight."

I can answer this one. I shredded a tire going thru the Raton Pass (NM) You get a 107 mile flat bed ride to Pueblo, check into the motel for two days, and call every tire outfit in town looking for a tire. The problem with the wagon is that brace under the third seat, if it was not for that you could put a spare in there and relax. In my V70R I have a full size spare in the well. MBUSA could get rid of the third seat, put a spare in the well, and regular tires all the way around. Doesn't strike me as that hard.

But, buy the maximum membership from AAA and get the 200 miles tow and the trip interruption insurance.

js_cls

The 1% is simply because of the chip shortage, not because of MB being "crummy." Demand for MB's at the moment is incredibly high, along with many other luxury brands, the difference is, MB simply cannot produce enough cars to meet the demand. In addition, MB has prioritized higher tier and higher profit vehicles such as the GLE, GLS, S-Class, EQS, and G-Wagon, as well as divisions such as AMG and Maybach. All of these vehicles mentioned showed great increases over 2020, with the S showing a 66% increase, GLE with an increase of 35%, the GLS 10%, and the G-Wagon had its best sales year ever globally.

The reason why the numbers haven't increased as steadily as a whole is due to the production shortages on vehicles such as the A, CLA, GLA, GLC, etc. aka, the mass market sellers. Many MB plants in Germany and Hungary have either been grinded to a halt or been stuck at lowering production and idling for periods of duration, such as Sindelfingen (E, CLS, AMG GT, Maybach, S-Class), Rastatt (A and GLA), Kecskemét (A and CLA) and Bremen (E-Class and GLC) plants. In addition to the production shortages and halts that MB has suffered, BMW and most of Audi on the other hand, have not. BMW has been able to secure more chips required for their vehicles, as well as pushed through with little to no plant closures especially for their Spartanburg plant which produces all of BMW's high volume SUV's (X3-X7).

If you look at the vehicles that showed losses this year, such as the A, CLA, GLA, and GLC, most of this can be attributed to the chip shortage. For example, go on Autotrader today and BMW will happily sell you over 600 new 2-Series Gran Coupes, the main competitor to both the A and CLA class. As for the A and CLA on Autotrader, together they only made a little over 330 results, about half that of the BMW despite being two models versus the one of BMW's. Together the CLA and A-Class last year made over 25,000 sales in the US, this year, they could only make 15,000 because of low production despite having greater demand. American shoppers are very partial to the idea of buying a car the day they visit the dealership. If one brand can supply their dealers with more available models, this will allow them to generate greater sales, and BMW has been able to supply their dealers with greater inventory. Its a similar story for the GLA. This is one of the most in demand class of vehicles right now, and production of it has come to a halt pretty much, with numbers down 70% compared to last quarter. Dealers had been informed at the end of last quarter that GLA's would be in incredibly short supply as MB plans to focus on higher profit models, pretty much requiring orders to be placed and with any available units spending little time on lots.

In the end MB's focus on higher-tier vehicles seems to have proven successful despite causing an overall sales low for mass market models. You can expect next year that sales will dive as well as MB will be unable to supply AMG's and V8's for a great majority of their vehicles lines except for a very few low volume models such as the S-Maybach and S-AMG, as well as the SL.

Streamliner

I did not use the word “crummy” to describe the brand, that was someone else. I used “crummy” to describe the audio systems in the current V167 GLE models, for which “crummy” is actually too tame of a word. “Horrible” might be a better description. I know that “horrible” truly describes the audio in every 2013-2020 SL, most of which sold for well over $100K—and that has absolutely nothing to do with chip shortages.

js_cls

I know you did not use the word, that being said you did say the poster who referred to the brand as crummy had a point and posted the sales increase without much context in response to them as to validate their point. The point overall is that there is much behind why the brand only increased by 1% in YoY US sales, the post is not entirely directly in response to you, however I thought I would explain some reasons why it was only 1%.

Either way, this thread has become horribly off-topic from its original purpose.

Streamliner

OK