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On October 5th, my 2018 Mercedes Benz E400 Station Wagon went on fire right after I picked it up from the MB Dealership in Beaverton, where I took it for a regular service (A service + Replace Spark Plugs+Replace Engine Air Filter). "Right after" means driving the car 5 miles from the dealership to my house (15 minutes or less drive, no stops). When I arrived home, I started to see smoke coming out of the hood and decided to park the car on our driveway and not inside; after 3 minutes I saw the first flames and 2 minutes later the car was on fire. The fact that I parked outside and the quick response of the firemen team avoided that the flames reached my house. Nobody was injured, in spite of a piece of the engine that exploded and flew 60 yards down our street.
After one month with no news from the MB Dealership, I went to the shop asking to talk with the General Manager. He was not there but he called me a couple of days later and told me that they have not reached me because they thought that my insurance company was taking care of my needs and, after reviewing the case, they did not think that the fire was caused by the service done in the Dealership; therefore there was not point on offering me any type of compensation, since that would be to admit their fault. I told him that I couldn't know who was responsible but I would expect some sort of customer service response from a brand like Mercedes Benz. He agreed to offer me a loaner car while he discussed this matter with Lithia Motors Corporate. In the meantime, my insurance company communicated that the joint investigation conducted with MBUSA revealed that the fire was caused by the dealership negligence. (I am not extremely surprised... to be honest).
Finally, I received the results of the Fire Investigation conducted by my Insurance Company:
"CONCLUSION
This loss is a direct result of the actions / inactions of Mercedes Benz of Beaverton, having not reinstalled or improperly installed the vehicle’s oil fill cap after completing service.
Failure to reinstall or securely fasten the oil fill cap allowed engine oil to escape and spill onto the vehicle's exhaust system resulting in a hot surface ignition"
Neither the Dealership nor the Brand never contacted me again.
Should you be discussing an ongoing case publicly? How does this benefit you? The insurance lawyers will fight this out on who will make you whole but how does discussing this on a forum and citing the dealers name benefit you or your case? I am glad you and your neighbors are safe, and I sympathize with your situation and understand your frustration.
When something like this happens it doesn't matter brand reputation, this is a fight about liability and lawyers get involved and people are advised by them to stop talking. $0.02
Last edited by PeterUbers; Mar 13, 2023 at 05:09 PM.
From a legal point of view, it's all settled. My insurance company reimbursed me the market value of my car (though not enough to buy a car like mine with that money) and I assume that they will go after the dealership insurance to get that money back. I am not looking for any benefit at this point, just sharing information in a MB forum, where I think that there will be people interested in knowing how the brand and their network of dealerships will treat them should they 'suffer' a situation like this. Makes sense?
Porsche Cayman S, Mercedes W213, Nissan Titan, BMW X5, Chevrolet Suburban
If his attorneys have not advised him to remain silent about the matter he's free to talk. If his attorneys have advised him not to talk then only his case is in jeopardy as a result of his actions. I for one would like to know if a dealership's negligence put lives at risk.
From a legal point of view, it's all settled. My insurance company reimbursed me the market value of my car (though not enough to buy a car like mine with that money) and I assume that they will go after the dealership insurance to get that money back. I am not looking for any benefit at this point, just sharing information in a MB forum, where I think that there will be people interested in knowing how the brand and their network of dealerships will treat them should they 'suffer' a situation like this. Makes sense?
Makes sense; so you're in a sorta Good Samaritan role, have you discovered a pattern of negligence from this dealership? One off Negligence can happen at any dealership at any time, I suppose it's up for debate how we assess the ongoing reputation of a dealership after once incident like this. Glad you're compensated
Curious, what would have been an ideal response from the brand and dealership in your opinion?
Last edited by PeterUbers; Mar 13, 2023 at 06:21 PM.
What do you think it would have been an ideal response? I would have expected to be treated like the loyal client I was, and see that the Brand (MBUSA/Dealership) was doing ANY effort to keep me as a client, instead of treating me like a liability...
(Note that when I say ANY, I was not expecting a FREE Car or any crazy offer like this... just a good faith proposal to someone who trust my car to their service department and, as a result, had to got thru a very scary situation)
is not "One off NEGLIGENCE" just a mistake or error or goof or Whoops-a-daisy??
Repeating the mistake is negligence
As the bumper sticker says - **** Happens.
But in the end the Dealership's insurance will end up paying your insurance company.
But if you sit home today and watch TV I am sure some local lawyer will have a commercial who you can call to SUE dealership for PAIN, Suffering , Loss in car etc etc.
My question is why were you not made whole and only given a lower market value than your car is worth to actually acquire. Something is fishy here. I would advise stop talking and speak with another lawyer for any other suits that may be pertinent. You should not be walking away from this with any cost to you to be in the exact same vehicle, age, mileage, condition, regardless of inflation or Covid.
My question is why were you not made whole and only given a lower market value than your car is worth to actually acquire. Something is fishy here. I would advise stop talking and speak with another lawyer for any other suits that may be pertinent. You should not be walking away from this with any cost to you to be in the exact same vehicle, age, mileage, condition, regardless of inflation or Covid.
^^^ this. To be clear you cannot acquire a car like yours with the money you recouped? This is confusing to me, how did the adjuster value the car? What are the details here, that you are willing to share?
to be clear you are seeking no further damages with a personal injury attorney?
thanks for updating, what will you buy now as a replacement?
Last edited by PeterUbers; Mar 14, 2023 at 11:55 AM.
IMO, this is NOT an insurance claim, but rather a claim with Mercedes-Benz and its dealer for presenting to you a car that was serviced defectively at one of its dealerships. MB-USA is only too happy for you to pursue this with your insurance company, as they feel it gets them off the hook. Were it me, I would not let them off the hook.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Baltistyle
My question is why were you not made whole and only given a lower market value than your car is worth to actually acquire. Something is fishy here. I would advise stop talking and speak with another lawyer for any other suits that may be pertinent. You should not be walking away from this with any cost to you to be in the exact same vehicle, age, mileage, condition, regardless of inflation or Covid.
The simple answer is contained in the language In your insurance policy: all the insurance company is liable for is current market value of you car.
There are exceptions to this, for example boat (marine) policies are often written that the purchase price is what is insured. Unfortunately this often leads to fraudulent claims: a person buys a boat for $125,000 and five years later it is worth $75,000 and there is a mysterious fire and the boat sinks. Under the marine policy the boat owner collects $125,000. That is why there are marine adjusters to determine the cause of the fire!
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
^^^ this. To be clear you cannot acquire a car like yours with the money you recouped? This is confusing me to me, how did the adjuster value the car? What are the details here, that you are willing to share?
to be clear you are seeking no further damages with a personal injury attorney?
thanks for updating, what will you buy now as a replacement?
There is no personal injury
There is no pain or suffering
In theory you could sue the dealer for their negligence but your damages would limited to the present value of your car which you insurance company is willing to pay
Of course the present value is subject to negotiation
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by DFWdude
IMO, this is NOT an insurance claim, but rather a claim with Mercedes-Benz and its dealer for presenting to you a car that was serviced defectively at one of its dealerships. MB-USA is only too happy for you to pursue this with your insurance company, as they feel it gets them off the hook. Were it me, I would not let them off the hook.
As the insurance company is going to pay full current value, it would make no sense to go after the dealer with all the work involved to have the dealer pay you full market value- which the insurance company is going to do without any work or effort on your part.
Your insurance policy, as do all auto policies, provides for subrogation which means that after paying you, your insurance company will sue the dealer for their negligence. When all is said and done, the dealer’s insurance company will bear the cost of the full market value of you car.
In theory you could sue the dealer for their negligence but your damages would limited to the present value of your car which you insurance company is willing to pay
Of course the present value is subject to negotiation
What do you think it would have been an ideal response? I would have expected to be treated like the loyal client I was, and see that the Brand (MBUSA/Dealership) was doing ANY effort to keep me as a client, instead of treating me like a liability...
(Note that when I say ANY, I was not expecting a FREE Car or any crazy offer like this... just a good faith proposal to someone who trust my car to their service department and, as a result, had to got thru a very scary situation)
I feel your pain, these dealers have a cooperate play book when it comes to incidents such as this. At $300 an oil change, this should not happen, the dealer is suppose to be well trained to prevent situations like this. In this economy, the dealer rather lose you as a customer than to try to make you happy thru monetary means.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by The G Man
I feel your pain, these dealers have a cooperate play book when it comes to incidents such as this. At $300 an oil change, this should not happen, the dealer is suppose to be well trained to prevent situations like this. In this economy, the dealer rather lose you as a customer than to try to make you happy thru monetary means.
No one is denying that the incident was caused by the dealer.
No one is denying that the Op would rather have his car rather than money representing its full market value which everyone agrees will be insufficient to cover the cost of a new replacement.
It would be equally ridiculous for the insurance company to be liable for the purchase price or replacement cost rather than present market value: would you prefer that a 10 year Mercedes that cost $55,000 that has a present value of $12,000 that is totaled in an accident, the insurance company be liable for $55,000 or even $75,000 the present cost or replacement rather than $12,000?
Of course not. If insurance companies are liable for either purchase price or replacement cost, among others things, but not limited to, here is what will happen:
The cost of auto insurance would go through the roof
Ever car before it is 5 years old would be in either a serious accident, be stolen or otherwise disposed of!
When a car is totaled, and no one is injured and there is no additional property damage, the maximum that is recoverable is the present value of the car.
As the insurance company is going to pay full current value, it would make sense to go after the dealer with all the work involved to have the dealer pay you full market value- which the insurance company is going to do without any work or effort on your part.
Your insurance policy, as do all auto policies, provides for subrogation which means that after paying you, your insurance company will sue the dealer for their negligence. When all is said and done, the dealer’s insurance company will bear the cost of the full market value of you car.
Hope this clarifies
Then... Your insurance rates increase drastically (for years), because you dared to file a claim on your policy. Hope this clarifies.
2021 Mojave Silver E450, 2024 Black on Black Jaguar F-pace P400, 2011 335d (RIP), 2010 E350 (sold)
The owner's insurance covers market value of the car and that's it. If he is filing a comprehensive claim that is all he would be able to re-coup. However, this situation is not the same as if a tree fell on the car or if the car caught fire for some other reason - which is what comprehensive coverage is for. This is analogous to someone else totaling your car - where you would go through THEIR insurance company. Here they are responsible for replacement cost but of the same year/mode/options of your current car. This includes tax, costs to acquire and ship it (things like dealer fees, registration, etc). Now, their insurance company will pretty much ALWAYS say things like - value of your car and try to not pay as much as they can, but you are absolutely entitled to full replacement costs so don't let them dictate terms - this IS a negotiation. Once you say that is good enough, that is all you will get. I just did this with my BMW that caught on fire and was totaled.
IMO, because this was obvious negligence I would negotiate some additional stuff in there. Something like getting a model year newer replacement - I think 2019s are better because of the engine updates. This would be a relatively small concession on their part to avoid the sticky stuff that comes with admitting that they employ morons in their service department. Having said all of this, I think it may be too late for the OP as I believe he agreed to the payout from his own insurance.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by ddeliber
The owner's insurance covers market value of the car and that's it. If he is filing a comprehensive claim that is all he would be able to re-coup. However, this situation is not the same as if a tree fell on the car or if the car caught fire for some other reason - which is what comprehensive coverage is for. This is analogous to someone else totaling your car - where you would go through THEIR insurance company. Here they are responsible for replacement cost but of the same year/mode/options of your current car. This includes tax, costs to acquire and ship it (things like dealer fees, registration, etc). Now, their insurance company will pretty much ALWAYS say things like - value of your car and try to not pay as much as they can, but you are absolutely entitled to full replacement costs so don't let them dictate terms - this IS a negotiation. Once you say that is good enough, that is all you will get. I just did this with my BMW that caught on fire and was totaled.
IMO, because this was obvious negligence I would negotiate some additional stuff in there. Something like getting a model year newer replacement - I think 2019s are better because of the engine updates. This would be a relatively small concession on their part to avoid the sticky stuff that comes with admitting that they employ morons in their service department. Having said all of this, I think it may be too late for the OP as I believe he agreed to the payout from his own insurance.
Nothing to disagree with. When a car is totaled, and assuming no bodily harm and no additional property damage, the most you can recover from your insurance company is current full market value. That is all that your insurance company is liable for.
if you want more than you would have to go against the dealer. I am suggesting that the extra time and energy involved would not be worth it.
if you decided to go against the dealer and hired an attorney after paying his fee in all likelihood your net would less than accepting payment from your insurance company
As I posted the full value of your car is negotiable.
Year’s ago my car was stolen. After negotiating with my insurance company I was satisfied with their payment. Months later my car was found. Having paid me for the car, the car belonged to the insurance company who sold it at auction recouping most of what I was paid. MY INSURANCE PREMIUMS DID NOT GO UP.
Similarly, after paying you, your insurance company will go after the dealer and your insurance company will be made whole: there should be no increase in you premiums
I feel your pain, these dealers have a cooperate play book when it comes to incidents such as this. At $300 an oil change, this should not happen, the dealer is suppose to be well trained to prevent situations like this. In this economy, the dealer rather lose you as a customer than to try to make you happy thru monetary means.
i agree. Any utterance of guilt opens this wide open to more risk/exposure to an already culpable dealer. They, though shady, were wise (for their own benefit) to lawyer up and stock communication with you. Of course this will leave a bad taste in all our mouths for Mercedes and this dealer in particular. It's the corporate playbook for sure and if we were in that service manager unfortunate position .. we would do the same thing he did.
the OP can move forward by never buying or supporting mercedes with any future purchases or recommendations of their company and also never going to that dealer again if he chooses to stick with Mercedes.
There is no doubt a root cause analysis will take place and has already taken place at that dealer, coordinated by the regional admin for that dealership and went through any punitive actions internally for the dealer and the tech. This of course will not be disclosed to the consumer unless this was a trial worthy case. If an RCA did not take place by benz, then something of this sort would be investigated by the insurance company representing the dealer as they have to now pay this consumer for his loss. There may be extra safety nets or checks put in place as a result of this bad outcome. The dealer doesn't want to go through this twice if they can control against it.
Last edited by PeterUbers; Mar 14, 2023 at 01:44 PM.
Thank you everyone for your contributions to this thread. I would like to clarify some points:
1. I think that the insurance company paid me a 'fair' compensation for my burnt car. As you probably know, Station Wagons are not very popular in the US and it would have been very difficult to find the same car (similar year, miles). In any case, after my experience with MBUSA and the dealership, it was not my intention to buy another Mercedes car.
2. MBUSA and my insurance company conducted joint investigation; the conclusion is mentioned in my first post: "This loss is a direct result of the actions / inactions of Mercedes Benz of Beaverton, having not reinstalled or improperly installed the vehicle’s oil fill cap after completing service.
Failure to reinstall or securely fasten the oil fill cap allowed engine oil to escape and spill onto the vehicle's exhaust system resulting in a hot surface ignition"
I have a copy of the full report sent to me by the insurance company.
3. I did not hire a lawyer. I know that since no damage was caused on any person or property, thankfully, that route would be a waste of my time and money.
4. Finally, it's over. The brand and the dealership decided to treat me as a liability and not as a client, and the only thing I can do is to broadcast over the web my experience... you can take you own conclusions.
Thank you everyone for your contributions to this thread. I would like to clarify some points:
1. I think that the insurance company paid me a 'fair' compensation for my burnt car. As you probably know, Station Wagons are not very popular in the US and it would have been very difficult to find the same car (similar year, miles). In any case, after my experience with MBUSA and the dealership, it was not my intention to buy another Mercedes car.
2. MBUSA and my insurance company conducted joint investigation; the conclusion is mentioned in my first post: "This loss is a direct result of the actions / inactions of Mercedes Benz of Beaverton, having not reinstalled or improperly installed the vehicle’s oil fill cap after completing service.
Failure to reinstall or securely fasten the oil fill cap allowed engine oil to escape and spill onto the vehicle's exhaust system resulting in a hot surface ignition"
I have a copy of the full report sent to me by the insurance company.
3. I did not hire a lawyer. I know that since no damage was caused on any person or property, thankfully, that route would be a waste of my time and money.
4. Finally, it's over. The brand and the dealership decided to treat me as a liability and not as a client, and the only thing I can do is to broadcast over the web my experience... you can take you own conclusions.
Thank you for sharing your story. The cooperate Mercedes I used to know would not treat a customer like this, now the lawyers run the company.
Thank you everyone for your contributions to this thread. I would like to clarify some points:
1. I think that the insurance company paid me a 'fair' compensation for my burnt car. As you probably know, Station Wagons are not very popular in the US and it would have been very difficult to find the same car (similar year, miles). In any case, after my experience with MBUSA and the dealership, it was not my intention to buy another Mercedes car.
2. MBUSA and my insurance company conducted joint investigation; the conclusion is mentioned in my first post: "This loss is a direct result of the actions / inactions of Mercedes Benz of Beaverton, having not reinstalled or improperly installed the vehicle’s oil fill cap after completing service.
Failure to reinstall or securely fasten the oil fill cap allowed engine oil to escape and spill onto the vehicle's exhaust system resulting in a hot surface ignition"
I have a copy of the full report sent to me by the insurance company.
3. I did not hire a lawyer. I know that since no damage was caused on any person or property, thankfully, that route would be a waste of my time and money.
4. Finally, it's over. The brand and the dealership decided to treat me as a liability and not as a client, and the only thing I can do is to broadcast over the web my experience... you can take you own conclusions.
I see that the car burned in your driveway, it didn't leave a permanent burn stain in your concrete?
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by ygmn
whats amazing to me is the engine caught fire from a loose oil fill cap.
Man that engine must be under some pressure to spit oil out thru fill cap onto hot exhaust...or the PCV system is clogged.
Heck I have run engines without fill cap on before without oil sputtering all over.
I know many threads on dipsticks getting blown out but do those catch fire?
Interesting...
Not to me: the oil is under pressure, it spatters and falls on the exhaust.
Several years ago on my John Deere lawn tractor I failed to fully tighten the oil cap: within a minute of running smoke was coming from the engine. I turned off the engine and oil was everywhere. Fortunately the engine was only on for a minute so the exhaust had not gotten hot. Otherwise I too would have had a fire!
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