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2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by JTK44
Asking the dealer what needs to done is like asking a barber if you need a haircut.
... To answer your question until your car hits 50K miles I would not even consider changing the transmission fluid...
I have no hair. What's a barber?
I guess the other question is whether the car has any kind of warranty coverage or service contract, either by Mercedes or a third party. If so, then time limits become even more important.
All 10 good advice. Oil change intervals are a topic of debate, but I stick with 5K miles (or 12 months). Synthetic oils don't break down like legacy out-of-the-well petroleum oils did, but they are still compromised by air contaminants and fuel combustion by-products, and by the effects of age. I will be crawling on and off my creeper every 5K miles for as long as I can.
Many years ago when I owned a Mercedes Diesel. The dealer was recommending more frequent oil changes plus additives than what Mercedes recommended.
So I asked my SA advises, how could the the person in the shop know more about the engines than the engineers who were actually designed, tested and built the engines? (and of course were more qualified, skilled and paid more)
Of course the SA had no answer and I said oil and filter only, no additive and service intervals as per Mercedes.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by JTK44
Many years ago when I owned a Mercedes Diesel. The dealer was recommending more frequent oil changes plus additives than what Mercedes recommended.
So I asked my SA advises, how could the the person in the shop know more about the engines than the engineers who were actually designed, tested and built the engines? (and of course were more qualified, skilled and paid more)
Of course the SA had no answer and I said oil and filter only, no additive and service intervals as per Mercedes.
Never ask a barber if you need a haircut!
Clearly, you've never heard of an engineering change or a configuration management board. Engineers rarely get things perfect or even right the first time. As assumptions are confirmed or invalidated by real-world application, changes are proposed to address in-use problems. Before an engineering change request is approved for implementation, a configuration management (or configuration change) board is convened to address the costs, risks, and benefits of the change request. If the benefits outweigh the costs, the change is usually approved. It is then scheduled for implementation. If not, the request is disapproved.
While there is substantial evidence that oil additives should be avoided, I am yet to find anyone who claims a shorter oil (or any fluid) change interval is harmful.
When I began my career as an engineer, I wasn't turned loose to cause problems in the design department. I was assigned to production where I was tasked with fixing the problems that the design engineers created. When I finally made it into the design department, I was far more circumspect about designing stuff. A product that could be built and function as intended is more important than adding another patent to one's C.V. The people I worked with in quality control and warranty repair were among the most knowledgable, and I learned more from them than from the PhDs in design.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by JettaRed
Clearly, you've never heard of an engineering change or a configuration management board. Engineers rarely get things perfect or even right the first time. As assumptions are confirmed or invalidated by real-world application, changes are proposed to address in-use problems. Before an engineering change request is approved for implementation, a configuration management (or configuration change) board is convened to address the costs, risks, and benefits of the change request. If the benefits outweigh the costs, the change is usually approved. It is then scheduled for implementation. If not, the request is disapproved.
While there is substantial evidence that oil additives should be avoided, I am yet to find anyone who claims a shorter oil (or any fluid) change interval is harmful.
After a time, looking at your post, one has to begin to wonder:
Do you have a financial interest in doing maintenance at intervals much shorter than recommended; or
Why you continue to double down on your beliefs
I posted years ago, doing maintenance beyond recommended by the manufacturer, while totally unnecessary, will not hurt your except in your wallet!
We all get it: In your opinion, doing maintenance at shorter intervals, is cheaper in the long run.
There are people who are perfectly healthy who go to the dentist once a month to have their teeth cleaned, every several months to their doctor for a check up, their cardiologist every 6 months, and so forth. They remain healthy and incorrectly believe they are healthy because they go to the doctor more often than recommended. They are no different than you doing maintenance at shorter intervals than recommended and therefore concluding, erroneously that the extra maintenance is why your car runs without problems.
You car would be the same if you followed suggested maintenance routines.
With regard to engineering changes, etc. total hogwash with regard to the dealer recommending service shorter than Mercedes. If in fact there were engineering changes the SA would have shown them to me - which he didn't and was the point of my post.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by JTK44
After a time, looking at your post, one has to begin to wonder:
Do you have a financial interest in doing maintenance at intervals much shorter than recommended; or
Why you continue to double down on your beliefs
I posted years ago, doing maintenance beyond recommended by the manufacturer, while totally unnecessary, will not hurt your except in your wallet!
We all get it: In your opinion, doing maintenance at shorter intervals, is cheaper in the long run.
There are people who are perfectly healthy who go to the dentist once a month to have their teeth cleaned, every several months to their doctor for a check up, their cardiologist every 6 months, and so forth. They remain healthy and incorrectly believe they are healthy because they go to the doctor more often than recommended. They are no different than you doing maintenance at shorter intervals than recommended and therefore concluding, erroneously that the extra maintenance is why your car runs without problems.
You car would be the same if you followed suggested maintenance routines.
With regard to engineering changes, etc. total hogwash with regard to the dealer recommending service shorter than Mercedes. If in fact there were engineering changes the SA would have shown them to me - which he didn't and was the point of my post.
It is your money, spend it as you wish.
I have no financial interest whether people do maintenance more than required, only what is required, or completely neglect their cars. I double down on my beliefs because in the 51 years I have been driving and maintaining cars, and in the objective research that has been published, it is far better to do primary fluid changes (engine oil, transmission, and brakes) more often than the MINIMUM service recommended by manufacturers IF you plan to keep your car beyond the warranty period. It is manufacturers that have the financial interest in having you perform minimum specified maintenance during the limited maintenance period. On a NEW vehicle, you could probably do nothing and not have a catastrophic engine or transmission failure. But after 50,000 miles, the damage has been done. Then, when you have a failure, it's on your dime to fix it.
As I mentioned, my proof is that I have a 2004 Audi TT 1.8T with over 250,000 miles with the same engine, turbo, and transmission. I bought the car used (CPO) in 2006 with about 20,000 miles on it. It had been maintained according to schedule. I began changing the engine oil every 5000 miles or less, and 18 years later it's still running. I attribute its longevity to the "frequent" oil changes. This is the same era when Audi was plagued by engine failure due to sludge. Sludge is attributed to infrequent oil changes. And you are right, it is my informed opinion that doing fluid changes more frequently will save money in the long run.
Your healthy people analogy makes no sense. Can you name a single person who does all of those things? There is no comparison between maintaining a vehicle properly and being a hypochondriac.
Why are you doubling down on not doing maintenance more often? And I don't care what you "posted years ago". That proves nothing other than you posting your opinion.
To get back to the Thread Starter's original question, I provided an answer that he should consider time and not just mileage. WRT asking the dealer what service was recommended, it is important to know what they were recommending. Only an oil change? A transmission service? A brake fluid change? So, no, it's not asking a barber if you need a haircut.
So, it is now up to @The_Judge to decide what The_Judge wants to do.
Relevant? Sadly, yes. Interesting discussion about oil -- yes, synthetic is way superior to the ordinary petroleum stuff of 50 years ago, but the contamination is greater in contemporary engines. I remain a 5,000 mile DIY devotee.
Sorry, I thought it was obvious. Search the internet for recommended oil change intervals. Virtually every experienced mechanic will tell you that 10,000 miles is too long. Oil viscosity breaks down with use and age. The long change intervals recommended by manufacturers are purely marketing hype to make you think maintenance is cheap for the $70,000 car you just bought. It's because there is competition among manufacturers to "keep up with the Jones'". Kinda like Kia's 100,000-mile new car warranty doesn't make it a better purchase, but sure sounds impressive. It's also because the dealership will incur twice the costs if maintenance is included during the warranty period -- 5,000 vs 10,000. And, at 10,000 miles, the oil may still be within the manufacturer's acceptable performance. But have you looked up the acceptable oil consumption in your Operator's Manual where 0.8 liter oil consumption per 1000km is acceptable? How's that make you feel?
Usually, following the recommended interval doesn't produce tangible negative effects until after the warranty period. So, my statement about shorter change intervals is based on my experience and informed opinion. No manufacturer is now going to say, "Oh, we were wrong. Sorry about the premature wear and failure of your engine. You should change the oil every 5,000 miles." If you want to keep your car for 100,000-250,000+ miles, change the oil often.
I don't get "paining a room with a Q-Tip analogy." Have you ever changed the oil using the evacuation method? It is far faster and just as effective as putting the car up on ramps and draining from the oil pan. I can completely change my oil in ½ the time it would take to put the car on ramps, remove the splash shields, remove the drain plug, drain the oil, change the filter, replace the plug, fill the oil sump, run the engine and check for leaks, replace the splash guards, and back the car off the ramps and put them away. Suctioning from the top is as simple as removing the dipstick and inserting the suction tube down the dipstick tube into the lower oil pan, run the air compressor, evacuate 6.5 liters, change the filter, and refill the oil, all without crawling under a car and getting dirty. So the "hours or days" to paint a room must be the traditional, crawl under the car method.
If you have made up your mind that you are right and I am wrong, NOTHING I or anyone else is going to say will change your mind. Stay with your long change intervals and ignore the prudent recommendations of others. It's your car. My initial response was to provide an informed opinion to the original question.
This may help in your research: Search YouTube for "oil change interval".
I second @JettaRed and the suction method. I ran a couple of tests using the drain plug and using the evacuation method via suction. Most people don't have a lift at their home to change the oil while the car is level. Most of us have to rely on jack stands or drive-up ramps. This in turn doesn't drain all of the oil from the oil pan. You can however, jack up one side of the car to lift the same side the drain plug is located on to try and get more oil out. But the suction method does get the same amount of oil out if not more.
On the oil change intervals, I'd say do what your wallet allows. If you can afford to do an oil change twice by 10,000 miles, I'd 100% do it. It won't hurt anything, and your engine will run better with less carbon/debris. If you would like to change it every 10,000 like the manufacture recommends, then do that. It probably won't hurt anything, but more is better always.
Last edited by Affalterback; Sep 29, 2024 at 10:37 PM.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by Affalterback
On the oil change intervals, I'd say do what your wallet allows. If you can afford to do an oil change twice by 10,000 miles, I'd 100% do it. It won't hurt anything, and your engine will run better with less carbon/debris. If you would like to change it every 10,000 like the manufacture recommends, then do that. It probably won't hurt anything, but more is better always.
There is way too much evidence to believe 10,000 miles is OK. The long change interval is to give the appearance of low operating cost and is the minimum required to get through the warranty period. There are lots of YouTube videos from reputable YouTubers showing the problems with long change intervals. If you are going to keep your car beyond 50,000 miles, do not think changing at 10,000 miles is OK. It costs less than $100 in premium quality oil and an OE filter. Oil should be MB 229.5 approved, API SP rated, and either 0W-40 or 5W-40. This is even more important on GDI and turbo cars due to potential carbon build up and the extreme heat generated by turbos.
If you can't afford $100 every 5000 miles, you really can't afford any modern car, certainly not a Mercedes because future repairs will be MUCH more expensive.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by JettaRed
There is way too much evidence to believe 10,000 miles is OK. The long change interval is to give the appearance of low operating cost and is the minimum required to get through the warranty period. There are lots of YouTube videos from reputable YouTubers showing the problems with long change intervals. If you are going to keep your car beyond 50,000 miles, do not think changing at 10,000 miles is OK. It costs less than $100 in premium quality oil and an OE filter. Oil should be MB 229.5 approved, API SP rated, and either 0W-40 or 5W-40. This is even more important on GDI and turbo cars due to potential carbon build up and the extreme heat generated by turbos.
If you can't afford $100 every 5000 miles, you really can't afford any modern car, certainly not a Mercedes because future repairs will be MUCH more expensive.
PLEASE STOP ALREADY!
You have posted on so many threads that you do not agree with the manufacturer's recommendation citing "youtube" as your source. I prefer to rely on the suggestions of the people who built and know my vehicle.
Modern engines and lubricants are not the same as 10/15 years ago: engines are far more efficient and lubricants last longer: so what was common practice 10/15 years is outdated today - a fact you seem unable to accept.
Any your last comment about if you can't afford unnecessary oil changes you cannot afford a modern car is snarky and so out of line: I did not inherit my money, maybe you did: I worked hard for my money and I do not intend to squander it on on unnecessary maintenance.
Even if I relied on a dealership or indy for oil changes, I would still do 5K mile oil changes. An extra $150 once a year (assuming 10K miles/year) is less than most folks drop at Starbucks in a month.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
No, I won't stop sharing good advice. Why don't you stop promulgating bad information.
I have earned everything I own. My father was a tool and die maker and earned maybe $10,000 during his best year. My mother was a salesclerk at J.C. Penny. The house I grew up in was 1000 sq ft. What I learned at a young age was to take care of the things I have because my family could not afford to replace things that were neglected. If you don't want to maintain your car because you trust the manufacturers to have your best interest at heart, then please, blindly trust everything will be OK, just like when manufacturers told vehicle owners that their transmission fluid was a "lifetime" fill. How many failed transmissions could have been avoided if a thinking person decided that didn't make sense and that "lifetime" meant something different to the manufacturer? And seriously, while the comment about paying to maintain your car better than the minimally recommended amount may appear snarky to you, that is your problem, not mine. If you want to run your biturbo V6 for 10,000 miles between oil changes, be my guest.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by JettaRed
No, I won't stop sharing good advice. Why don't you stop promulgating bad information.
I have earned everything I own. My father was a tool and die maker and earned maybe $10,000 during his best year. My mother was a salesclerk at J.C. Penny. The house I grew up in was 1000 sq ft. What I learned at a young age was to take care of the things I have because my family could not afford to replace things that were neglected. If you don't want to maintain your car because you trust the manufacturers to have your best interest at heart, then please, blindly trust everything will be OK, just like when manufacturers told vehicle owners that their transmission fluid was a "lifetime" fill. How many failed transmissions could have been avoided if a thinking person decided that didn't make sense and that "lifetime" meant something different to the manufacturer? And seriously, while the comment about paying to maintain your car better than the minimally recommended amount may appear snarky to you, that is your problem, not mine. If you want to run your biturbo V6 for 10,000 miles between oil changes, be my guest.
Just saw that the car you have listed as your newest car is 2015.
What might have been correct for a 10 year old car like yours, has little to no bearing on a modern car.
As I posted, modern cars are far more efficient, which means times between oil changes are longer than on older cars. In addition synthetic oils last much longer than conventional oils all adding up to longer service intervals. We no longer grease ball joints. In the past you had to change the antifreeze every 3 years. That is no longer true. Brake pads on older Mercedes, remember the black brake dust, every 10K miles, now 50K miles is not uncommon. Tires every 15/20K miles. Now tires last 50K miles. Spark plugs every 20K miles. Now 50K to 100K is normal. This is just a short list of advancements in maintenance - there are many others.
Modern cars are much more efficient and require far less maintenance than older cars. This is fact which you seem unable to accept. Most of us have.
You can live in the past and do unnecessary maintenance, which will not hurt except in your wallet, or take advantage of modern cars and ease of maintenance that they provide.
Without fail, I have the oil & filter changed every 2,000 miles per MB's recommended schedule.
Sometimes I stretch it 25% to 2,500 miles. It is still once every 12 months.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by The_Judge
MB recommends oil change every 2,000 miles? What year is your car? Here's what MB recs for my 2018 E400:
Notice that says prepaid maintenance. Still, that is in agreement with the recommended regular maintenance. Generally, the maintenance intervals are the minimum required under ideal conditions. Interestingly, the Owner's Manual for my 2008 Infiniti G35x years ago recommended different schedules for different conditions, such as a dusty environment, trailer towing, mostly city driving, etc. In a perfect environment, they recommended 7500 mile intervals. Other conditions, they recommended 6375 mile intervals (or something like that). The point being that Infiniti was trying to be a little more transparent about required maintenance. I believe, as well as others, that these extended oil change intervals are (1) marketing hype so the manufacturer can show lower cost of ownership and (2) to keep low the cost to the dealer for any free maintenance during the warranty period (another marketing trick).
So, if the prepaid maintenance needs to agree with the recommended regular maintenance, there would be incentive to stretch out the recommended maintenance to reduce the number of times oil changes were provided.
As I've said before, people are free to treat their cars however they wish. But it is not wrong to be prudent and treat their large-ticket purchase with more than the minimal amount of care.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
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