E450 is a nice Sedan just as quick or quicker than my Manual Chevy SS. Fake interior noise for those who want it. Prefer the better integrated Driver's Digital W213 IP rather than this W214 IP screen that just sticks up and out. Exterior styling is better than the W213. Hope this Car sells well in the US...it might make a great Police Pursuit Vehicle to replace the old guard Dodge Charger and Ford Taurus especially the Wagon in Europe, NZ, and Australia markets. Just not sure if my 24 year old Daughter who makes $200K+ for Microsoft would ever purchase one...

 

 

I personally doubt it. Young people today are concerned with climate change. I was with a group of friends, all in our 70's and we were discussing tornados in Chicago, two, thousand year floods in Vermont, in the past 7 years, the last one from a rain storm not even a hurricane, forest fires in North East Canada where it rains and snow, 30 days plus of 110 degrees days in Phoenix, ocean at 100 degrees off of Florida, a hot tub is 104 degrees. I was shocked to learn that 30% of the carbon dioxide comes from auto emissions. I thought power plants, planes and trucks were the major causes. No it is the cars we drive.

To a person, where possible, we want to help where we can. We cannot at our age eliminate AC or heating. What we can do when the time comes is replace our ICE with an EV.

Is an EV as convenient as an ICE. Of course not. But I have children and grandchildren and I want them to be able to live as we have. So I am prepared for the inconvenience of an EV to have a better world for my children and grandchildren.

So I suspect like your daughter, I will do my part and when the time comes to replace my 2019 E450 and my wife's 2018 Ford Edge Sport It will be an EV not another ICE Mercedes.

Just my $.02.

 

I thought about an EV until I found that many of the 1 day trips I take would turn into 2 or 3 day trips due to the slow charging times, hours, not minutes, and lack of charging stations.
When refueling/charging times of EV & ICE vehicles are comparable, I'll buy an EV.

 

As everything related to technology, improvements comes in leaps and bounds.

I drive to Vermont to ski, 8 to 10 times a year. The trip is 252 miles each way. In my Mercedes I stop three times: twice for a bathroom break, once to gas up, total time less than 20 minutes. With an EV I will have stop twice, each stop 45 minutes.

That is today.

In December 2024 when the extended warranty on my E450 runs I will be looking to replace it with an EV. By that time I expect winter range to exceed 200 miles and charging times to be under 20 minutes.

Is this as convenient as my Mercedes. Absolutely NO. But I think this is a small inconvenience for me and big win for my children and grandchildren. I can spend an extra 20 minutes to make this a better world for them.

BTW, unless things change dramatically, I will not be considering a Mercedes EV's: Except for the EQS which is "silly priced", the present offerings from Mercedes, for example the EQE and EQE SUV's range is less than 275 miles and they are very, very expensive. The present offerings from Mercedes are nothing more than very expensive commuter cars. With their limited range, and space, the EQE SUV has only 19 cubic feet behind the rear seat vs. 30 cubic feet for a RAV4 are not competitive. A Cadillac Lyric with range of over 300 miles and more space costs tends of thousands less.

 

For what it's worth, my EQE gets over 300 miles per charge. It's also a very nice place to be inside. Not having to go to a gas station, for me, is luxury. As was mentioned, lease deals can be had. I do like the 214, electrify it and I'm in

 

Edmunds test of the EQS with an EPA range of 350 miles had an actual range of 422 miles.

My day trips with 1 stop for fuel are typically 500 miles though I have 700 mile one as well. Most frequent destinations are Atlanta (7 hrs) and Charlotte (8 hrs) followed by Baton Rouge (11 hrs). I sold my "road car" awhile back and have yet to replace it.

 

Lease deals: YES! $7,500, the Federal Tax Credit is now being thrown into the lease as a "Cap Cost Reduction" aka down payment, plus there are dealer contributions aka "incentives" of $2,000 plus.

To make the lease deals truly attractive three things must happen:

• The residual is now 55%. To be attractive residuals must go up to 58%/59%.
• Interest rate is 6.4%. My lease was at 2.6%. On an $80,000 EV, that 4%, equates to $3200, $266 extra per month.
• Dealers start to discount from MSRP: this in addition to incentives to move EV's

So far the market has spoken: While beautiful and elegant, the Mercedes EQE and EQU SUV are not price competitive.

The EQS at $100,000 plus is a different category - regardless of its range.

 

IMO there are only 2 Luxury EV sedans in the current market - Mercedes EQS and BMW i7. They are >$100k but competitively priced. Audi doesn't have an EV sedan. The E class and the 5 Series are really semi-luxury models as they are lacking in some luxury features.

 

They are competitively priced vs. each other, but very, very expensive. That is like saying as compared to a Rolls a Maybach is competitively priced. OMG at that price range everything is overpriced!

As to the EQE + EQE SUV being semi-luxury and not luxury, I disagree.

That is like saying the present E Class as compared to the S is not a luxury model.

This is truly a "First World Problem": For the rest of the world the E Class is considered the pinnacle of luxury only outdone by the very much higher priced (and significantly larger) S, BMW 7, Audi 8, Rolls and Bentley.

Most of us do not need the room of those big cars nor do we have chauffeur to drive them: For 99.5% of those who want a sedan as opposed to a SUV, the E Class and EQE are the definition of luxury.

 

There are “some luxury features” lacking in an S-class, which may be present in a Rolls-Royce model or even the Maybach. So is the S-class a semi-luxury model too ?

 

I'll phrase it differently. There are a few minimum features that define a luxury sedan such as premium leather soft seating, color and materials choices, ... The E class has most of the luxury features except for seating and limited choices. The E class has taxi cab hard seats that border on the uncomfortable especially after a long period of time. After all, the E class is primarily used as a taxi throughout Europe and Africa. IMO the hard seats make the E class semi-lux. Put the S class seats in the E class and I would consider it a luxury model.

 

I'm curious as to your thoughts on the 5 Series or A6. They are not generally used as taxis, but in the same class. That said, I agree, put the S-Class seats and amenities in the E, perfect.

 

This is 2023 not 1993: Like furs for women, leather for auto seats are on the way out. This is my second E Class with MB Tex and frankly for even up I would choose MB Tex over leather: It breathes, is cool in the summer warm in the winter, does not wrinkle, does not show dirt and when it does comes clean with Fantastic. Far, far more practical than leather and no horror stories about south american cattle that are used for leather seatinbg.

As to seating, I really wonder what you are talking about. I have owned the S class, Audi 8 and 6, BMW 5 and 7 and I find the seats in my E Class to be the most comfortable of all on long trips. I have a bad back so believe me I know a good seat from a bad seat. After 5 hours driving I get out of my E450 without a kink in my back fully relaxed. My wife says the same about her passenger seat - once she moves it back. She even admits with the seat back, that there is not much difference between the comfort in the E and S Class.

Where there is a huge difference is in rear leg room. Here the E Class is deficient and why I previously posted that I wish the E long, manufactured in China were available here in the US.

I understand that the 2024 has more leg room, but until it actually arrives in the dealers and you sit in, how much remains to be seen.

 

Have you sat on those E-class (and 5-series BMWs and a few Audi A6s) taxis in Europe ? I have. Those are absolutely basic models with cloth seats and with pretty much no options in it. That’s certainly not the type of E-classes sold here in the US for nearly a 100K$ (an E450 All-terrain, padded with options, will easily approach a 100K$, before taxes are applied). You will get leather, nappa leather and so on in an E-class……you just have to pay for it. Mine has leather. If you believe a 100K car is “semi luxury”, that’s not an honest assessment

 

I travel to the EU every year. The seats in the EU E class are the same basic seat with the difference being the upholstery material and adjustment mechanism. In the US the seat cushion is as hard as a rock while the backs are equally hard, they are shaped well with excellent lombar support. For backs they are great, not so much for butts. I had to replace some seat leather and the cushioning under the leather was minimal. I tried MB Tex in 2017 as a money saving gesture and did not like it. Skin moisture accumulates on MB Tex making it slippery and uncomfortable. That doesn't happen with leather. MB Tex may be fine in cooler climates North of the Mason-Dixon line, but it isn't good in Florida where the daytime temperatures and humidity are rarely below 70° F and 70% respectively even in Winter. My seats do not wrinkle or crack and are easy to clean. The Machiato beige doesn't really show any dirt. I wipe them with a Meguiar's cleaning pad to remove body oils.

BTW my '18 E300 fully loaded with Premium Package III, Burmester 3d sound, premium suspension, upgraded brakes and wheels, heated/cooled ventilated multi-contour leather seats, ac outlet, wood steering wheel, etc. cost slightly less than $66k. I don't recall the list price but it was less than $80k. That's a far cry from $100k.

 

Daughter's 2021/2020 Combined Commencement at MIT held in 2022 because of Pandemic, the guest speaker from Hawaii wearing sandals brainwashed the entire graduating class about the Horrors of ICE/Fossil Fuel Powerplants and to go Green with EVs because of what he witnessed on his Islands with Climate Change. Daughter can walk to work in Reston, VA and uses mass transit in DC plus takes AMTRAK from BWI/DC up to Manhattan or Boston South Station. Once at Penn Station she can take the subway and Metro North to her Aunt just north of White Plains. If the wife transfers to the USDA HQ in DC area from her current Gig in Athens, GA will sell all my ICE and NM home just to afford a $700K Condo down by the Navy Yards. NM insurance premiums for AMG Wagon, Ducati, and Chevy SS is about $1100 every 6-months. Will buy a $3000 eBike in my Retirement to cruise DC Navy Yards. Until then will keep my ICE in New Mexico.

Was born and raised in NYC so used to taking Bus and two Subway trains from Queens to Fordham Prep in the Bronx. Didn't get my first vehicle until turned 25 in Los Angeles after graduation from Rochester. So I can do without a Car in a Big City. Even in 2008-2011 took the Torrance #8 Bus from LAX to Aerospace job on El Segundo Blvd every Monday Morning when SWA flight landed from El Paso.

If they mass market a Honda/Toyota/BMW Hydrogen vehicle might purchase one if I get underground parking at DC Condo...otherwise will keep the ICE in NM Desert.

A Hydrogen E450 would be better!

 

Agreed. I assume the E300 is a 4-cylinder (or a V6 that makes the same power as the current day Turbo-4s). That’s on the lower end of the E-class spectrum, essentially the volume end of the spectrum, and thus $66K is par for the course, even with the options you mentioned. But you step up into the E450 wagons (which comes standard with the 4Matic and Air suspension etc), and start adding up the options, you will get closer to a $100K very soon. I am not even talking about the AMG E63 wagon, which is well over a $100K, even before options are added in. These 2 ends of the spectrum (the base 4cylinder against the higher-end models) are certainly far cries, and no debate about that.

And you can bet your bottom dollar, that no E-class taxi in Europe, comes with the E450 Turbo Inline-6 (with Electrification) engine or the air suspension or the panoramic moonroof or the Nappa leather, or 16-position power memory seats for driver and passenger or Burmester sound or Active Parking assist or any of the other niceties that the E-class models in the US is typically sold with.

 

I agree, if customers were able to choose between the two, particularly with the W214 model, I think a good number of people would choose the traditional luxury grille. Also, with sedans becoming more and more of a rare choice compared with crossovers, I think the sedan "customers" are inherently more traditional in nature, and would appreciate the subdued styling of the luxury trim compared to the "crossover buyers" who have lost the desire for a sedan and likely would choose the gaudy illuminated star design. I think Mercedes-Benz is making a mistake by not offering the lux trim in the U.S.

 

@Roweraay

The list price difference today between an '23 E350 and a '23 E450 is $6,300 or about 10%.
When I purchased my '18 E300 the difference between it an an E400 was less than $4,500 or about 8%.
The only difference was about 70 hp between engines - I4 w/ turbo & V6 w/o turbo.
Other equipment was the same with all of the electronic goodies that the '23 models have.

Regardless of other equipment the EU taxi seat frames are essentially identical to the standard E class seat frames.
The multi-contour seat frame has a thigh extension and power, but is otherwise is the same as the standard seat frame.
Only the upholstery is different between EU taxi and a US E class seats. Both are as hard as a rock.
Both my wife and I use a foam/gel seat cushion for comfort.

 

The W213 E400 is turbocharged, the last Naturally Aspirated E-Class in the US was the W212 E350.

 

The current E-class E450 Wagon/All-terrain starts at 71,250 USD. Once options are added, it will quickly ramp upto the $100K mark. Typical configurations available at the dealers, are in the $85K+ mark, from what I’ve seen.

The E-class Sedan starts at 56,750 USD.

That’s a 14,500 $ spread right there, base-to-base……or the wagon starts at almost 26% more than the E-sedan.

 

Not to run this further off the rails, but this is not true and it needs to be stated. 28% of US CO2 emissions is from ALL transportation. Half of that is from cars and trucks, including heavy duty trucks. The other half comes from ships/planes/trains. So only 10-12% of CO2 emissions is from passenger vehicles. Now consider that the average age of cars in the US is over 12 years. New ICE vehicles, especially cars as opposed to SUVs and pickup trucks, that comply with much stricter emissions requirements than in 2011, are not the culprits of this 10-12%; removing or supplanting them with EVs will not move the needle.

Especially when you consider power generation is responsible for 25% of CO2 emissions. That number will go up with adoption of EVs.

Source: EPA
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sou...-gas-emissions

 

Not according to this report: 38% come from transportation:

see: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58861