Honda is #2, Mazda #3: Toyota is #1.

The discussions are to merge:

Why Mergers of Carmakers Like Honda and Nissan Often Falter

see: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/24/b...ger-deals.html

 

Traded in my beloved w213 wagon for the w214 e53 just last week. The w213 was quiet and solid, but the w214 is even more so. Definitely closer to the s-class. The tech is intimidating and will take me time to get used to, but the driver experience is spectacular. Silent, solid, comfortable. Definitely a step up, even when I didn’t think it could get better; the w214 is an amazing car and definitely MB didn’t scrimp or pinch. Yes, they make you pay for it with increased MSRP, but I feel like it is worth it. I drove the E350, the E450, and the E53, choosing the last one for the performance. However, I found the driver experience/comfort to be the same in each version, just a step up in terms of power. The E450 for price and performance, is probably the best value of the lot. For around $75k you can get a LOT of car (yes, you can option it up into the 90s, but I don't think a lot of that is really necessary). The E350 just didn't feel powerful enough; I could definitely feel the 4-cylinder as not enough power when I was used to the 3.0L six. The E53 is a beast and probably way more power than I will ever use... but hey, YOLO.

A few things that I can't say are "worse," but just "different" in the sense of not necessarily needed to be changed are: the W214 Panorama Roof Control is now an annoying buttonless sliding thingamabob... which could have been a simple button like the old one. As well, I like the ambient lighting, but on the W213 it was soft and subtle while on the w214 it IS like the "German Disco" I've heard people joke about. The w214 steering wheel, which has been used for a while, isn't as easy to use as the W213 (or at least the one through 2020, when it was the simpler one and when she had the clock on the dash). FInally... yes, I love the clock and am sad they got rid of it.

Again, I don't think all of the above are "downgrades" in the sense that the quality of each is very high, and the inclusion of an analog clock I can see as out of sync with the new tech-vibe... but still I just think it might be a case of changing things just to change them. If it ain't broke... don't fix it... but then again for a car company wanting to sell NEW stuff, I get it.

 

I see absolutely no difference in elegance of exterior look, interior luxury look and feel, ride, or steering for the E350 among the W212, the W213, and the W214 platforms. This is probably a personal preference, or a need to feel better about what you just bought. I'm not especially thrilled by the tail lights on the W214. Some other larger differences are:

• W212 had a torque gap around 30-40 mph which the 9 speed transmission corrected. It made passing from that speed somewhat sluggish. (W212 E550 - 8 cylinder - is better).
• A few versions of the 4 cylinder 27x engines have some serious/costly engine failures (cracked pistons, oil sump pump,...). Far more than the 6 cylinder W212 E350 which is likely to last longer. If buying, I would get 6 cylinders (E450) W214.
• The MBUX is less safe and harder to use than COMAND. Car magazines always put the MBUX controls in the short list of "CONS" when they review(ed) them. I have the first MBUX year (2021) and it's really bad (compared to newer models I have driven). Make sure you like the touch pads and swipes on whatever you buy.
• W212 has a spare and a CD which (optionally) allows copy of CD's to a hard drive to store music. W213 and W214 do not, although they have USB-C ports for thumb drive (or external sourced) music (not USB-A).
• W213 and W214 have large screen areas and more info on displays. W212 displays are adequate (for me).
• AEB was introduced in 2015, earlier versions of W212 only had it when DISTRONIX (option) was turned on.
• W214 has numerous problems with MBUX software, some serious, many annoying, and some taking new cars out of service for weeks.
• 2025 E350 has optional rear airbags.

A complete list of differences (Major and minor) which I found after my 2014 E350 (W212) was totaled, and I replaced it with a highly options 2021 E350 (W213) follows. I have not seen any significant upgrades (except the rear seat belts, which is significant to me) in the W214, but I’m not very knowledgeable of the W214.

W213 PROS (vs W212) Some of these are due to options I did not add to the W212
1. Engine: 4 modes (ECO, CMFRT, SPRT, SPRT+), W212 had only 2 (E and S)
2. Engine: Auto-stop at red lights (will it wear anything out? – I suppress it just in case, only works with fully charged battery.)
3. Engine: Better pickup at 30-40mph (Torque dip in W212 E350) due to 9 vs 7 speed.
4. Engine: Slightly Better City / overall Mileage
5. Outside: Better looking Hood (to some people)
6. Outside: Folding Mirrors
7. Ride: Should be Smoother; 9 Speed transmission and AIR MATIC but isn’t.
8. Distronix: Specified follow distance works right; W212 twist lever was a mystery
9. Parking Brake better (Automatic)
10. Safety: More safety (e.g. Side Impulse) W213 Death stats = 0, W212=5; Avg all cars=30
 https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-...make-and-model
 https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredo...eport/pdf/52/3
11. Safety: Rear cross traffic backup warn/avoid
12. Safety: Front Pedestrian accident avoidance
13. Safety: Better automatic headlights
14. Safety: Intersection accident avoidance
15. Trunk: Automatic close button/feature
16. Key: Keyless Entry Exit much easier, Trunk Kick (doesn’t work on my 213)
17. Camera: Larger Screen Parking and Nav and …
18. Nav: Alternate Routes; Larger Screen; Speak Destination
19. Radio: Can add AM/FM to Favorites
20. MBUX: More Voice commands; More Vehicle commands
21. Inside: Light color seats; Piano Trim
22. Inside: Seat retract on open door entry
23. Inside: Acoustic Comfort package
24. Inside: Inductive Cell Phone charger
25. Inside: Multi-Color Ambient lighting of cab
26. Inside: LED highlight with color selection
27. Inside: Illuminated Door Sills
28. Music: Better; More clear; Mid Range Adjustable
29. Instrumentation: Range always shown
30. Instrumentation: Can see MPG from Start and Reset
31. Instrumentation: Head Up display
32. Instrumentation: Speed Limit shown
33. MyMercedes: Can see much Remote data about car, Remote Start, Download SW updates info, ...
34. MyMercedes: Can Get mileage from cellphone

W213 CONS (vs W212)
a. Engine - 6 cyl is better; Piston Cracking and Oil pump problems with some M27x engines. Get a 450
b. Transmission: many (including me) have reported jerks on downhill downshifts 3 -2; Didn't happen with 7 speed
c. Transmission: Jerk upshift 2 to 3
d. Controls: Distronix much harder to use; have to look; lever was much bette
i. W212 lever easy to find without looking at steering wheel
ii. W213 (mine only??) always takes 2-3 button presses to select on/off or speed.
e. Controls: Console Touchpad swipe often misfires, doubles, ignores; Switches and buttons were much better. Selection press requires perfect spot placement on pad.
f. Controls: Wheel Left Upper center: Intermittent; not reliable; Worst of the bad
g. Controls: Really hard to set Heads up display; Really bad
h. Controls: Distronix speed-set misfires 50% if the time; Bad
i. Controls: Voice control (AI) is often useless. With W212 it worked on limited (but definite) set of commands and worked better via one-time “voice training”.
j. Sound Volume: Gradations not gradual; Can't get it where you want it. Dash Knob was better.
k. Music: No help with getting CD's onto Thumb Drive; No tech advice on what Thumb drive formats are best (or work at all); No recommended CD to thumb drive copy service(s).
l. Music: No CD Player / Hard Drive
m. Nav: Can't enter name and store destinations; Could on W212
n. Nav: Can't use Zip codes; Could on W212
o. Nav: Voice entry of destination address fails about ½ the time. Might as well use keypad entry.
p. Nav: Does not optimize for stop signs/ red lights / road condition, W212 did. Sometimes sends me to country cow-paths and private roads.
q. Manual: No list of definite voice commands; Had a definite list for W212
r. Manual: No clear presentation of command Tree
s. Manual: Command tree Options shown out of order and incomplete
t. Manual: ICONS under primary (Home) icons not explained
u. MBUX: Menus and tree operation inconsistent
v. MBUX: Lame HELP systems: Info system sparse/incomplete; Needed due to very high complexity, especially of “system” settings.
w. MBUX: Misfires on word Mercedes or anything that sounds like it. Usually use the steering wheel button just like I did on the W212.
x. MBUX: Doesn't understand much more than the W212, (Heat and cold; big deal!)
y. Tones: One ear shattering tone selecting ECO mode if in Reverse
z. Storage - Front Seat: Less than W212 (FrontBottomOfSeat; FrontSideWebbing)
aa. Hauling: Opening from trunk to back seat much smaller than W212; Cant do Xmas Tree
bb. Low battery – Some reported problems with many W213 (and W214?) batteries; Usually Engine stop ECO doesn't work due to low battery. Was told I had to drive about 30 miles to recharge the battery to get ECO to work. Really??

 

Re : « bb. Low battery » : Dealer replaced it twice (around 2021 and again in 2024) on my 2018 E-Class as I got tired of having to charge these batteries weekly.

 

I see, thank you for clarifying.

 

That is a detailed list.

 

That's a very detailed list, but there are some things, like comfort of driving, that are hard to quantify on a spec list. If we only bought off a spec list, we'd never buy a Mercedes. From all the reviews I've seen and from my test drive, the driving comfort and quietness is outstanding in the W214. Supposedly it's better than in the previous models, but I've never driven the prior ones.

 

In March of this year, I stopped by a local MB dealership to test drive the only W214 on the lot… a 350. I then did a “photo shoot” comparison side by side with my W213.



As an owner of a W213, I must say my impressions of the W214 is that it is a superior car to the W213. It looks classier inside and outside, and the evolution MB created clearly hits the mark. Yes there are a few nits that’ll bother me, but the overall package is much improved over the W213. IMHO. My goal is to purchase a CPO W214 2025 E53 AMG in 2027. I can wait patiently until then…

 

Which is which - I can see minor insignificant differences, but if they weren't side by side, I really couldn't tell which one is which.

 

The one on the right with the window sticker is the W214. Also look at the hood: the W214 has two creases more in the center and different tail lights.

Most of the difference is from the sides views.

 

Oh come on. From the back they look like a totally different car.

 

Thanks - I can now see the differences because I reread the posts closer and learned that the E350 is the 214 so the badges ID them. However, one does not look significantly better to me than the other, and on the road I wouldn't remember which is which unless I had these photos in front of me (or memorized the differences). Actually, I prefer the look of the hood with the 2 outdents and the slope of the back window (the 213), but that wouldn't lead me to buy it vs the 214. I'm a bit old fashioned I guess - I prefer the analog clock (212), the greater interior storage spaces (212), the burl wood (212 and 213), and especially the greater technology reliability (212 and 213) and many other things (see long post above) of the older models. The only things that would take me to newer models is improved safety. The back seat airbags are the main reason I will study/test a 214 and an S-class if/when I go shopping. For now, It's pretty hard to beat the safety of the 213 - its most recently measured driver death rate is zero.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-...make-and-model

The 214 death rate won't be known for a few years.

 

I see two white cars and 8 black wheels. 😜

 

Definitely more evolution than revolution, that said, those taillights are so easily different to the predecessor plus it goes across the rear instead of the prior model that is sperate from the trunk. The facelift W213 also had it across though so there is that. I think it is still pretty easy to tell the W214 apart from the W213 exterior wise both the rear and the side profile (especially with the pop out handles) and the broken shoulder lines side profile but that is just my opinion.

 

​​​@rach2jlc - Thanks for your post. I am waffling a little between the 2025 E450 and E53. I drove an Edition 1 E53 yesterday with 21" wheels and performance seats and the comfort was not where I hoped for an E-Class (even in Comfort mode). Q. What seats and wheels does your E53 have?

 

The stock wheels are 18 inches. Did you really expect to have a "luxury and/or comfort" ride going to 21 inch wheels?????

Unless you are on smooth pavement, with 21 inch wheels expect tire/wheel damage including bubbles and bent rims.

Hope this helps

 

Not on the E53. The only factory options are 20" and 21". Absolutely correct though. Those 21" wheels will not be as comfortable as 18" wheels. I thought about 21" wheels on my E450 but decided to go with 20". Still not as comfortable as 18" but with the Air suspension they are very comfortable.

 

You should drive an E450 to see how you like it. I have a 2025 E450 with 20" wheels and AIRMATIC suspension. It is quite comfortable and has enough performance for me to have fun but not get in too much trouble. You have to decide what your primary need was from the car and mine was luxury. The E450 has it in spades, especially when you add many of the options available. I've never driven the E53 but I imagine it's just as luxurious with a bend towards performance at the sacrifice of some comfort.

 

Mine is 2019 E450 with 18 inch wheels. Suspect our rides are similar: 18" vs. 20" with air suspension;


There are several advantages to my set up vs. 20 inches: (at least for me, where I live and drive)

• Savings of $5000: The 20 inch wheels are $1950 extra and the air suspension $3200 (you do get the rear wheel steering which is an advantage)
• Tires: As I drive in winter for skiing I can do it on the all season tires that are stock on the 18 inch wheels. Traction in snow with 20 inch tires is not as good as 18 inch, and if they are summer tires, you have the extra expense of 4 winter tires.
• Where I live on Long Island, pot holes are a fact of life. I have already had to replace three tires at 20K miles, with at least 20K miles left on them because of bubbles. With 20 inch wheels I do not think I would be getting even 10K miles before they had to be replaced. (I would replace them at Costco with their 5 year road hazard warranty)
• Wheels: Again because of where I live, by necessity I would have to pay extra for the wheel package.

Just my $.02

 

Maybe the only way to get a comfortable ride is to go 19" or smaller. I spec'd an E450 online that was at least close to my custom E53 order. These images are: E450 with 19", E53 with 20" and then 21".



I wonder if the smallest 20" build option (middle E53) is actually the smallest wheel that will fit over the AMG Performance Package composite brakes. Also wondering if just going down to 20" will make enough comfort difference (about 14-17% more sidewall going from 35/30 to 40/35). 20" also opens up all season tire options.

Wheels aside, the AMGs (bottom two) are definitely the most handsome in those images.

 

Very helpful perspective. Thanks for taking the time.

 

Very, very difficult, even for Mercedes to give both handling and comfort.

For me there is no choice: 40% of my driving is long distance on the Interstate: here I want as much comfort as possible: 18 inch wheels on the E450

The rest of my driving is local: I do not drag race or accelerate hard: the E53 would be completely wasted on me. I find the looks of the two, 450 vs. E53, too similar to warrant any extra money. Ditto for the interior.

But then again, I just turned 80, and I realize that that the market for the E53 is not me!

Good luck!

 

This is great context. That extra sidewall sounds essential there, with the comfort being an additional benefit. Reconsidering E450.

 

Glad I can help.

Suggest you test drive the 450 with stock 18 wheels and another car with larger wheels. See if the trade off in comfort warrants the extra handling and cost and further costs down the road when tires need to be replaced.

Also, three years from now, no one but you and other E53 owners will even know what the stock wheels were vs. the 21 inch wheels. Nor do the 21 inch wheels add any value on trade in and of course the replacement cost on the 20/21 is much higher and choices are limited.

What really gores me is the extra cost of the 20 and 21 inch vs, the 18 inch wheels. If you go to replace them the difference is less than $200 a wheel. But if you order the 20/21 wheel there is an extra charge of $2000. Mercedes is not giving you any credit for the stock 18 inch wheels.

Just my $.02

 

Regarding tire size, it has been discussed before in this thread and my analysis of tire size is this post. I will reiterate what I said in that post without copying it.

My 2012 E350 had 18" wheels and were size 255/40R18 front and 265/35R18 rear. Doing the math to calculate sidewall height I had 3.86" (front) and 3.65" rear. The overall height of those tires are 25.72" front and 25.30" rear. I drove that car for just over 150K miles throughout TN and several road trips to NY, FL, and GA. Roads in TN are just as bad due to the freezing winter and our poor road repair. Plenty of cars on the side of the road with blown tires due to hitting a large pot hole. Over the course of 10 years and 150K miles, I have never had a flat tire due to a pot hole and have never been stranded due to a flat. I've had my share of nails or other objects puncturing the tire but I can easily fix them with a tire plug kit I keep in all my cars and motorcycles.

Moving on to the W214 model (and I would suspect is very similar for the wheels and tires on the W213) the tires are larger than on the W212. The below table show the sizes from the factory based on the different wheel choices and the tire size of my W212. Notice the tire height of the 2012 with 18" wheels is only 25.72 and 25.3 inches while all the sizes for the W214 are 2 or more inches larger in diameter. Because of this, the W214 with 20" wheels has the exact same sidewall height as the W212 with 18" wheels. The point of this is don't just go by the wheel size. There is more to the equation than just wheel size. The big factor in ride comfort is sidewall height and that is also a big factor in durability over pot holes or other road hazards. The key thing to look at in the below table is SW Height (in) or in (mm) if you prefer metric. The differences (last two columns) are in inches. If you go with the 18" wheels on the W214, you will get nearly 5" of sidewall. Move to the 19" wheels and you will drop about 0.5" of sidewall and drop 1" to go to the 20" wheels. The 21" wheels will drop the sidewall 1.5" over the 18" wheels but still less than a 0.5" drop from the W212 18" wheels.



If you are wondering how to calculate the above data, you can reference any number of online examples such as this one from Tire Rack.