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2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Roweraay
Please note that it is not an “electronic sensor” that senses the signs of knock and damage to the engine. These are essentially tiny microphones (mechanical and not electronic) that listens for the tell-tale signs of poor octane fuel that’s resulting in engine knocks and ongoing engine damage, and it sends a signal to the Engine-management system to retard the timing. And it keeps on progressively pulling the timing backward, until the engine is driving “hog tied”. Essentially a last-ditch action from the ECU to prevent even more damage from occurring.
I believe it is entirely electrical with no moving (mechanical) parts. There are so many articles on this subject: the bottom line is that using regular reduces the engine output by 5% to 7%. In my E450 that is a reduction from365 HP to about 335 HP. You cannot be serious when you suggest that 330 HP is "hog tied". To the contrary it is more than sufficient times 3. You can go into your settings and find out how much horsepower you are using, which I have done and suggest you do as well: at 75 MPH I am using less than 60 HP, so I think having 270 in reserve is more than sufficient - but maybe not enough for you.
Originally Posted by Roweraay
Plus the power degradation occurs throughout the rev band. And not some slight reduction in the power at the high-end, as you assume. It is not a 362HP engine going down to say 340HP at the top-end, but a power degradation, throughout the entire rev range.
So for a specific acceleration, an engine where timing has not been pulled, could be turning 2500rpm to generate the power needed to achieve the target speed, while another engine (like yours) that is operating with severely retarded timing, will need to rev higher to say 2750rpm to generate the exact same power. Which is why the manual states (as shown further up) that putting low-grade fuel, into an ultra-high compression Turbo engine, which is designed to run with Premium fuel, will reduce mileage.
If I know that a seller has been running with regular fuel, that car will never grace my garage. Simple as that.
I do not know what you are driving or how you drive, but the only time I get to 3000 rpm is when I downshift using my paddles. At all other times I never go above 2,500 rpm. So I never stress my engine, never use more than 75/85 Hp and the electronic ignition hardly ever retards to prevent pre-detonation.
As to mileage: If you read my posts I indicated that on my last trip my range using premium went from 708 miles to 724 an increase of 2%. However, the cost of premium was 30%, so there is no economic advantage using premium over regular.
It is getting to the point of “"Never the twain shall meet" ! And time to let this line of argument go, since it is not making any headway, on either side of it.
Inadequate fuel: Once you determine, without any basis, that regular is inadequate, then of course you will run premium. What you are doing is assuming your conclusion.
I prefer to keep an open mind and until someone demonstrates to me, and "my dealer heard" I will not conclude that regular is inadequate fuel. If you read your manual it does not say premium is required but only premium is recommended.
Like you: "I could give a **** less what you run inyour car. You can **** in your tank if you want to"
Can you provide the specific language in your manual and your fuel door where it indicates or implies that premium (91 octane or higher) is just a recommendation and not a requirement? Mine leaves little room for interpretation on the fuel door saying "MINIMUM OCTANE RATING 91". It's bold and in all capital letters making it seem extra important. The manual then says that you should "Only refuel with fuel that has at least the octane number specified on the information label in the fuel filler flap. Otherwise, engine output may be reduced and fuel consumption may increase." I can see how this statement alone may make you think that the only consequence to not following this is lower fuel efficiency. Further in the manual, it states to use at least the octane number specified in the fuel filler flap and that not doing so will cause "Premature engine wear through unleaded regular gasoline" and "Impairment of the longevity and performance of the engine". I looked at the 2019 E-Class manual and it has similar but not identical language. It also states to only refuel with the minimum octane stated in the fuel filler flap and goes to say "Unleaded regular gasoline can cause the engine to wear more quickly and impair longevity and performance". This doesn't seem like they are saying that it's just a recommendation as you indicate above. Can you elaborate as to why you think this is just a recommendation and not saying you should only use premium?
This is now a case of "You can take a horse to water....".
When someone has convinced himself that his approach works, he will find some excuse to justify, and keep doing, whatever he's doing. It is called wearing blinders.
This is now a case of "You can take a horse to water....".
When someone has convinced himself that his approach works, he will find some excuse to justify, and keep doing, whatever he's doing. It is called wearing blinders.
I call it not trying to fix something that's not broken.
Please note that it is not an “electronic sensor” that senses the signs of knock and damage to the engine. These are essentially tiny microphones (mechanical and not electronic) that listens for the tell-tale signs of poor octane fuel that’s resulting in engine knocks and ongoing engine damage, and it sends a signal to the Engine-management system to retard the timing.
If it has wires coming out of it, it's an electronic sensor no matter what it's sensing -- temperature, pressure, rpm's, motion, position, sound, vibration, fluid level, gas, etc. Many of these sensors include signal conditioning (amplification and filtering) as well as analog to digital conversion for direct LIN or CAN bus interfacing. Knock sensors typically use a piezoelectric transducer for producing an electronic signal from vibrations (https://www.electronicsforu.com/tech...-sensor-basics).
Can you provide the specific language in your manual and your fuel door where it indicates or implies that premium (91 octane or higher) is just a recommendation and not a requirement? Mine leaves little room for interpretation on the fuel door saying "MINIMUM OCTANE RATING 91". It's bold and in all capital letters making it seem extra important. The manual then says that you should "Only refuel with fuel that has at least the octane number specified on the information label in the fuel filler flap. Otherwise, engine output may be reduced and fuel consumption may increase." I can see how this statement alone may make you think that the only consequence to not following this is lower fuel efficiency. Further in the manual, it states to use at least the octane number specified in the fuel filler flap and that not doing so will cause "Premature engine wear through unleaded regular gasoline" and "Impairment of the longevity and performance of the engine". I looked at the 2019 E-Class manual and it has similar but not identical language. It also states to only refuel with the minimum octane stated in the fuel filler flap and goes to say "Unleaded regular gasoline can cause the engine to wear more quickly and impair longevity and performance". This doesn't seem like they are saying that it's just a recommendation as you indicate above. Can you elaborate as to why you think this is just a recommendation and not saying you should only use premium?
My fuel door
The 2024 E-Class manual
The 2019 E-Class manual
I wonder why he didn’t jump in for an immediate rebuttal to this post like he does on all the others?
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